I quote only that because that is really the only important part here.
In writing, the goal is NOT to deceive the person. It is to create scenarios for your characters to make the reader, or in this case player, guess. The goal is not to obfuscate things for the reader by in this case, having people speak directly to the player.
A good deception, or twist, is where a player or reader slips comfortably into the skin of the character. So when the character organically is deceived the reaction is "HOLY SHIT!"
Now. In this case. The deception does not come from the character or dialogues being given to the main character. It is through the characters in game speaking directly to the player.
Since the main character in this game has no personality... At all... Any plot twist etc becomes weaker, simply because underneath it all the throbbing knot of "The game is trying to trick ME and not the character" appears.
The initial shock effects most people, but any second thought after quickly unravels it. The writing depends on speaking to ME. it is breaking the fourth wall so to speak. The PC in this game has no emotions pretty much, or at least no recognizable ones. Nor can we make a choice on how we feel about the situation. Any emotions we may feel are put aside for the linear story.
Which maybe what your missing.
I'm not annoyed at some lack of logic, or the goal to create deception.
I'm annoyed that the main character has no personality, and its plot twist relies on fooling the player completely bypassing the PC. That's what this thread was about.
Everything only works if you accept the game is speaking directly to the player, not the PC.
For me that is bad storytelling.
It's decent storytelling.
It's a good game.
But its story telling is very weak when the main protagonist is a mute, emotionless husk.
And the only way they decided to work around it was to talk directly to the player.
Which would be like if a book suddenly started addressing the reader. Or an actor turned and stared right into the camera and spoke to you.
That is what the games overall story feels like to me.
That's my problem with the game.
For the heck of it though...
1. You seem to be missing the main point here; he wasn't portraying some new scrub to Jack or to anyone who was watching. He was portraying Atlas, hero to the people. Among other things, this -should- have bought Jack a bit more freedom, potentially convincing folks who hated Fontaine but liked or at least respected Atlas to leave Jack alone and let him do what he had to do.
The problem with that is most of it is assumed. We never see a case of this happening. There is no evidence in game that this is happening. Throughout the entire game everything is trying to kill you. Violently. Frank never even implies someone outside of that very first guy you see get murdered does shit all for you. That doesn't fly for me. Maybe if you saw splicers in cut scenes fighting back Andrews people. or he even said something concerning this.
However nothing is ever mentioned. That is all assumption. That doesn't cut it for me. One again, I am not saying the story is terrible or bad, just not the best story ever as this thread was trying to state. Months upon months ago.
In one major case, Peach Wilkins, this SEEMED like it was working... until Peach's paranoia and/or ability to see through the deception came out and he tried to kill Jack for being Fontaine's puppet. Which in and of itself is the other major reason for the deception... people HATED Fontaine, but sooner or later he was going to run into someone who might be able to see through the deception.
Which would have been slower if he used a new face. Not one he created directly after faking his death to carry on the exact kind of work he was doing before. The paranoid are less paranoid when its not quite as obvious.
2. You still have free will. So long as he isn't saying Would You Kindly ever five seconds, you do what you want, how you want. And if he IS saying that every five seconds, again, he runs the risk of folks who are listening in figuring out what makes you so useful.
My point however was if he put a shit load of effort into making you loyal to him why kill you immediately?
He wouldn't have had to run any risk of people finding out the code word if he genuinely gained your loyalty. However after he technically could have gotten that he instantly tries to kill you.
Can you imagine if Sander Cohen, who clearly had been listening in given how he talks when first revealing himself, knew he could control Jack like a puppet with three simple words? Ryan best demonstrated the dangers inherent there... what if he decided not to die by your hands, and just told you to beat yourself to death with the golf club instead?
Except if he had no interest in binding him through loyalty he didn't have to create the sob story about a wife and kid.
Hell, he could have merely said "Man, i know a way out! We just have to get to this sub! Would you kindly..."
Instead, there is a huge story about his loving wife and child. An exaggerated sob story. This is clearly meant as a tug at the heart string move towards the player, not the PC. If his plan was to escape and leave him to rot there would be no reason to create a massive story such as this. If he intended to stay longer once he secured the sub the lack of wife and kid would be noticeable.
This also opens another hole. As soon as your at the objective in Andrews home Frank instantly reveals himself. When your at the sub Frank has no less reason then to assume he has won yet he puts on a whole song and dance pretending to be screaming for his wife and child. Once again this is clearly meant to effect the PLAYER specifically, not the PC. This is one of those things i talked about above. It's meant to push the player, not the PC. Which to me is bad writing. The actor is talking to YOU to make YOU feel something. Not the PC. When it is revealed there is no family it seems like a bad lie, especially if he wasn't intending on escaping in the first place.
I don't feel betrayed, i just think the guys an idiot, and kinda short sighted.
Jack is only a useful tool so long as NO ONE ELSE knows he's a tool, and so long as when he ISN'T being actively used, he has no reason to go against Fontaine. And Fontaine, who clearly has no interest in continuing with being Atlas once Ryan is out of the picture, isn't about to leave that particular loose thread dangling. And yes, he knows- or thinks he knows -he has the power to order you to kill yourself now... key phrase being now.
But he has NO REASON TO BELIEVE ANYONE CAN DEPROGRAM YOU. Not to mention Tenenbaum couldn't even fully shut down all the codes, or even knew about all of them. The only people who knew shit all about it in the end were Tenenbaum, Andrew, and Frank.
There are any number of things he could have said if was half the con artist we are led to believe he is. He could have convinced you he lied to protect you. He lied because he didn't want Andrew taking control of you.
The point is all of the bullshit becomes apparent if he had no interest in gaining your loyalty and trust. Once again if he actually stuck to less damning lies he could have merely controlled you through good old fashioned loyalty and indoctrination and never ever had to say those three words again.
Instead he INSTANTLY TRIES TO KILL YOU GIVING NO SECOND THOUGHT TO THE FACT YOU MYSTERIOUSLY DISAPPEARED.
As well why bother dropping the atlas name anyways? This is once again dropping the hammer to punch the nail in.
"Hmm, one name 'supposedly' is beloved by the people and gives me lots of street cred. The other persona makes people want to fly into a mad rage and stab me.... Decisions."
His decision to change his name is merely to fuel the the twist. Not because its useful at all to him.
The "but i don't need it anymore" falls back to classic bond villain logic. "James bond is subdued, might as well drop this bullet proof vest now"
He's getting rid of you before you have the chance to become a threat. Remember, if Ryan figured it out, the secret is no longer his alone. He has no way of knowing who else Ryan might have told. Even IF he was going to keep you around before, he CAN'T now. Killing you immediately is the only sane choice.
The only problem is you were a threat from the beginning. Nothing has changed. You also assuming Andrew would tell people. Something his character is built up to not being the kind to do.
As well the number of doctors, whom if i recall Tenenbaum was one of them, who created you all knew, and likely told others, or left diaries. Hell Frank left diaries people made AS THEY WERE KILLING THEM laying around. Not good for the PR wouldn't you say?
3. The objective WAS ultimately to trick you. It HAD to be. Why would the programmers want to do something to trick Joe Blow in the fictional game universe while leaving you fully aware of what was going on?
Because that's good writing? Good writing makes a reader, or viewer, or player FEEL like the character. Immersion is when you feel like the character you are playing, not when your character is an emotionless husk. When you feel like the character you feel how he feels. Deception, betrayal, anger... These things are amplified.
In Bioshock you are an empty emotionless husk, a robot. The game attempts to trick you, the driver of said robot.
That's not good writing to me.
For the trick to work, it had to fool everyone; when Ryan revealed it to Jack in his final moments, through to finding out who Atlas really was, Jack, you, and everyone else in Rapture should have been shocked to have been so deceived. Things clicked for you, and for Jack, but too late for it to mean a damn thing. Ryan is dead. Atlas was a myth. Frank Fontaine rules supreme.
First, nothing clicks for the PC. Ever. He is a mute protagonist that doesn't even say anything past gurgles and grunts of pain. You don't even get the choice to make him say anything. So throughout the game the main character might as well be a soulless log with arms for all we know.
And not only is it all your fault, you never had a choice about it. Except, you did. You had choices all along, shown most clearly by how you treated the Little Sisters.
Except the choices don't really make much of an effect.
Now, i honestly don't care about that. However it doesn't really do a world of help in defining who you are. The problem is they have a linear game with an open world style character. What you get is a hero with no motivation, or emotions. Walking down a flight of stairs. It's not all my fault, its the games fault, and the PC? he doesn't seem to give a shit. That is how i ended up walking away from the game feeling. The game tries to bring you into the game, but it doesn't really allow your personality to really be part of the game.
This is a problem, the game wants you to feel something but doesn't let how you feel really alter the flow of the game.
There is NOTHING wrong with a linear story mind you. However when a game has a linear story with a soulless main character it weakens the effect for me. I find it bad practice.
Fontaine could control you when he used your phrase, but he had no ownership over your soul. YOU chose to be a monster or a man when dealing with them. It showed that even with how powerful his control was, it wasn't complete. You were still you, you could still make your own decisions when he wasn't pulling your string.
However this was the only choice, and it didn't create any real difference. It made me fell like my character was soulless by the end of the game. Nothing really changed depending on what you did. YOU is either a child killer or a savior. That's a kinda flat character.
Ultimately there is no character development. YOU had the choice of murdering or saving little girls... and nothing else. You don't even talk to them. The mute protagonist doesn't fly when i want to get my story on. Which, once again, was what this thread was about. We were done with silent protagonists in the PS1 days. Why bring them back now.
The game did utterly fail on character progression for the main character, which is a problem when we are talking about the merits of story. This is what breaks the game down for me.
THAT was what ultimately undid Fontaine- especially karmically apt if you were to have saved all the Little Sisters in the game.
Except it's not. Whether you slaughter every little girl or spare them all the fall of Frank is the same. Death by hypodermic needle barrage. Ultimately your decisions have even less of a choice and the evil ending was, quite frankly, a pile a of shit. If the game had a linear character with emotions and a personality this wouldn't be that noticeable. However when you have a flat, emotionless, personality-less(past whether he murders or saves little girls) it glares, painfully.
But then, you asked, why attempt to win over the character of Jack? Because he had to for this to work. Jack had to be motivated to press onward even when Would You Kindly wasn't being employed. Why? Because what happens if folks notice that the newcomer who somehow can use all the secured functions of Rapture, including the Vita-Chambers, dances like a puppet on a string every time Atlas radios over Would You Kindly? Now, if instead half the time he's just calmly chatting with Jack, seemingly building a friendship, only to occasionally ask in that oh so polite way only Atlas can for Jack to do something... well, even if you're listening in, or even if you're Jack and Atlas isn't currently in your ear, it makes sense to you to do it. Jack never questioned it until the moment Ryan confronted him about the truth of Atlas's control over him, partly for the same reason YOU never questioned it until then. It seemed by all accounts that Atlas was just a kind fellow with a string of bad luck to him, your only support and conversely his only hope at settling the score. By the time the truth stood revealed, it was too late for anyone to capitalize on it.
I feel i have explained this already, and at this time i would only be repeating myself.
