Is there a reason I haven't seen any women players in professional sports?

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Misterian

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Okay, normally I've never been much interested in sports, but every time I see my dad watch football on TV or someone watch baseball on their TV, one thing has always bothered me.

Why haven't I seen any women play professional sports? Seriously, I've never seen any female players within the Denver Broncos, or New York Yankees. The only points where I ever saw women play sports professionally were in organizations separate from the likes of NFL or MLB on Premium Channel cable. Why is that?

Even back when I first noticed this as an 8-year-old boy I thought the whole thing seemed arbitrarily sexist, I've seen females play sports with all the same capacity as their male counterparts. So why does it seem like there's an unwritten "No Girls Allowed" rule in groups the NFL or MLB?

Why are these groups unwilling to let women play in the same teams as men? and why haven't I heard of anyone accuse them of sexism over it?
 

Squilookle

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The difference in physical attributes isn't sexist, it's just there. Watch an average Tennis match for men's and then women and you'll generally see a difference over time in shot speed, movement around the court, etc etc.

Women do have their own teams and leagues etc, the reason you don't see them though, may very well be sexist. Women's sports aren't given as much priority airtime as men's, because it's believed that few people will watch it. This does indeed seem to be the case, however whether that's because their threory is true, or it's a self fulfilling prophecy because of the airtimes allowed on TV, is another matter.
 

Hawki

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Um...maybe you're not watching the right channels?

I turn on the news, it's pretty standard to see female sports.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Squilookle said:
The difference in physical attributes isn't sexist, it's just there. Watch an average Tennis match for men's and then women and you'll generally see a difference over time in shot speed, movement around the court, etc etc.

Women do have their own teams and leagues etc, the reason you don't see them though, may very well be sexist. Women's sports aren't given as much priority airtime as men's, because it's believed that few people will watch it. This does indeed seem to be the case, however whether that's because their threory is true, or it's a self fulfilling prophecy because of the airtimes allowed on TV, is another matter.
Pretty much this.

Also, it's somewhat sport dependent. Have you ever seen a men's volleyball game? I'm going to guess not because no one cares about men's volleyball, but women's volleyball gets decent viewership.

There's definitely some sports where I don't understand men and women not playing together. Golf for example. Golf is a skill game, strength and speed isn't important in it, so I don't see men having an advantage, so why does it need separate leagues?
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Misterian said:
Okay, normally I've never been much interested in sports, but every time I see my dad watch football on TV or someone watch baseball on their TV, one thing has always bothered me.

Why haven't I seen any women play professional sports? Seriously, I've never seen any female players within the Denver Broncos, or New York Yankees. The only points where I ever saw women play sports professionally were in organizations separate from the likes of NFL or MLB on Premium Channel cable. Why is that?

Even back when I first noticed this as an 8-year-old boy I thought the whole thing seemed arbitrarily sexist, I've seen females play sports with all the same capacity as their male counterparts. So why does it seem like there's an unwritten "No Girls Allowed" rule in groups the NFL or MLB?

Why are these groups unwilling to let women play in the same teams as men? and why haven't I heard of anyone accuse them of sexism over it?
Depends on the sport. In Golf, Tennis and Swimming I find men and women tend to get a fairly even showing. Tennis especially.
 

Trunkage

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Gordon_4 said:
Misterian said:
Okay, normally I've never been much interested in sports, but every time I see my dad watch football on TV or someone watch baseball on their TV, one thing has always bothered me.

Why haven't I seen any women play professional sports? Seriously, I've never seen any female players within the Denver Broncos, or New York Yankees. The only points where I ever saw women play sports professionally were in organizations separate from the likes of NFL or MLB on Premium Channel cable. Why is that?

Even back when I first noticed this as an 8-year-old boy I thought the whole thing seemed arbitrarily sexist, I've seen females play sports with all the same capacity as their male counterparts. So why does it seem like there's an unwritten "No Girls Allowed" rule in groups the NFL or MLB?

Why are these groups unwilling to let women play in the same teams as men? and why haven't I heard of anyone accuse them of sexism over it?
Depends on the sport. In Golf, Tennis and Swimming I find men and women tend to get a fairly even showing. Tennis especially.
Do you remember when they started the womans AFL league and no TV station would broadcast it. Then it was really popular online
 

Squilookle

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Dirty Hipsters said:
There's definitely some sports where I don't understand men and women not playing together. Golf for example. Golf is a skill game, strength and speed isn't important in it, so I don't see men having an advantage, so why does it need separate leagues?
I could argue that strength is important if only for the distance the shot can be taken, but considering golf has an in-built equaliser (that being different tee-off points for men and women) then yeah, there's really no reason they can't play together. Maybe they just want to televise twice the number of players in twice the tournaments or something, I dunno.
 

Saelune

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Because they never figured out that if you do weight/skill classes, that it will naturally segregate itself while still allowing those few exceptions have their chance.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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If you mean men and women playing in the same team/against each other, the answer is simply physical differences.
If you mean women's sports as in their own thing, they're there, most channels just don't wanna broadcast them. Maybe they're impopular because nobody broadcasts them, maybe they don't broadcast them because they're impopular. Egg-chicken scenario. Who knows.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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trunkage said:
Gordon_4 said:
Misterian said:
Okay, normally I've never been much interested in sports, but every time I see my dad watch football on TV or someone watch baseball on their TV, one thing has always bothered me.

Why haven't I seen any women play professional sports? Seriously, I've never seen any female players within the Denver Broncos, or New York Yankees. The only points where I ever saw women play sports professionally were in organizations separate from the likes of NFL or MLB on Premium Channel cable. Why is that?

Even back when I first noticed this as an 8-year-old boy I thought the whole thing seemed arbitrarily sexist, I've seen females play sports with all the same capacity as their male counterparts. So why does it seem like there's an unwritten "No Girls Allowed" rule in groups the NFL or MLB?

Why are these groups unwilling to let women play in the same teams as men? and why haven't I heard of anyone accuse them of sexism over it?
Depends on the sport. In Golf, Tennis and Swimming I find men and women tend to get a fairly even showing. Tennis especially.
Do you remember when they started the womans AFL league and no TV station would broadcast it. Then it was really popular online
I?m going to be part f the problem and say I do not remember. But I am unsurprised.
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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I believe sharpshooting is coed in the olympics. But yeah that's kinda it. Natural differences make women unable to compete with men. A simple example of it I know is the 100m dash. The times put up by the best women runners are times that the average male HS or college runners are expected to be able to put up.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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Its simple biology. Women, on average, are not as strong or fast as men. Male muscle fibers are thicker, and their twitch speed is faster. For example the female world record 1mile run 4.12mins. The united State men's Highschool 1mile record is 3.53mins. So the fastest teenage boy in America is faster than the fastest woman in the world. Its the same for the 100m, 400m, 800m, down the line male highschool records are faster than female world records. And those boys aren't fully mature. Legs muscles in runners hit the peak in their 30s, not teens.

With that level of physical disparity, it wouldn't be fair to have mixed professional sports. That's why we have mens and womens events in the olympics. Yes of course there will be outliers, women who can compete, but you'd wouldn't have enough to make entire teams of them or have more than 1 or 2 in an entire league.

Now there are female leagues and those are doing just fine
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Squilookle said:
Dirty Hipsters said:
There's definitely some sports where I don't understand men and women not playing together. Golf for example. Golf is a skill game, strength and speed isn't important in it, so I don't see men having an advantage, so why does it need separate leagues?
I could argue that strength is important if only for the distance the shot can be taken, but considering golf has an in-built equaliser (that being different tee-off points for men and women) then yeah, there's really no reason they can't play together. Maybe they just want to televise twice the number of players in twice the tournaments or something, I dunno.
If strength was that important then Tiger Woods wouldn't be the best golf player based on his little match stick arms.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

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Squilookle said:
The difference in physical attributes isn't sexist, it's just there. Watch an average Tennis match for men's and then women and you'll generally see a difference over time in shot speed, movement around the court, etc etc.

Women do have their own teams and leagues etc, the reason you don't see them though, may very well be sexist. Women's sports aren't given as much priority airtime as men's, because it's believed that few people will watch it. This does indeed seem to be the case, however whether that's because their threory is true, or it's a self fulfilling prophecy because of the airtimes allowed on TV, is another matter.
Play styles are routiely different, however. I mean the primary indicator of serve speed is height as it gives the greatest clearance over the net, while allowing the greatest depth at velocity. But someone like Michael Chang was fun to watch as a kid because of play style alone. Pete Samphras was interesting to analyze as he probably represented best an idea of the strategy of the game and its endurance and play economy.

Technology alone is ending the serve and volley mainstay in men's tennis as both serve speed, and return, does not permit it most of the time.

Which is why women's tennis is often more interesting to watch in the technicalities of the sport and what 'made it fun'. Tennis will always be an interesting sport, either men's or women's, given it's the only sport I know where you can lose more games and still win the match through thoughtful, strategic play.

And a lot of that is disappearing in the men's side of things that will likely be personified best in women's tennis. Particularly if they ever extend grand slam sets for them. The one thing I really don't like about the game now is the whiny-ness. Tennis is supposed to be an endurance sport, but with the combination of better racquet design as well as focus on power and depth of play, and how they're tailoring even grand slam matches to be shorter and less difficult to close, threatens to turn it merely into a 'jock's game' ...

And tennis shouldn't be treated like that. I'd be fine with limiting racquet design or creating a 'regulation racquet type' if it means bringing back technicality, endurance play and actual finesse rather than the age of the double-handed backhand and simply practicing ground strokes and serves all fucking day long.

Modern tennis racquets just give players topspin now. Doesn't matter their skill level. You used to practice hard as a kid getting that 3000+ rpm on the old 10'' composites as a basic ground stroke ... now you throw some bleeding edge racquet design in their face and they get given it largely for free. Modern 11'' tennis racquets basically give noobs the means to check general topspin on basic groundstrokes to maintain control of the ball with reduced loss of power applied to swing while still keeping it in play.

Technology alone is making strokes thoughtless. It will get to the ridiculous point where racquet design alone will require a ball change every 7 games rather than the 7-9-9 model, simply because every shot will shear them to fucking hell when they bounce off cement.

Tennis is supposed to be the 'holistic sport' ... high fitness, maintaining bursts of controlled power, finesse and ultra-precise muscle memory and control, quick reflexes, and honing the mind to interpret all aspects of the opponent and to maintain your concentration and endurance for hours on end. But the whinyness and technology is supplanting natural capability.
 

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Hawki said:
Um...maybe you're not watching the right channels?

I turn on the news, it's pretty standard to see female sports.
Not everywhere gets the same channels. Especially in regions where Sinclair media has a monopoly you are more likely to see "The 700 Club" marathons than female sports. When I went to visit my sister out in West Texas, I figured out why they kept their television off when I turned it on and there was Evangelical broadcasting on every single station.
 

EvilRoy

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Squilookle said:
Dirty Hipsters said:
There's definitely some sports where I don't understand men and women not playing together. Golf for example. Golf is a skill game, strength and speed isn't important in it, so I don't see men having an advantage, so why does it need separate leagues?
I could argue that strength is important if only for the distance the shot can be taken, but considering golf has an in-built equaliser (that being different tee-off points for men and women) then yeah, there's really no reason they can't play together. Maybe they just want to televise twice the number of players in twice the tournaments or something, I dunno.
It started as a boys club issue (girls weren't allowed on a lot of golf courses for a long time, and some remain exclusive), but at this stage I think its basically evened out to simply be what you suggested. On an individual basis golf tournaments make crazy bank between sponsorships, ads, ticket sales and viewership. Nobody in their right mind would ever say "yeah lets go ahead and cut the money we get in half". The compromise is now we are starting to have all the old tournaments PLUS mixed gender tournaments, which is basically the best outcome there could be from the organizers point of view. And the viewer if you're one of those people who just enjoy watching every tournament every year. From the players perspective it may not actually be the best, because the more tournaments there are that you aren't competing in the less visibility you have for sponsorship deals, and you really have to choose which tournaments you even try to qualify for each year.
 

Trunkage

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Silentpony said:
Its simple biology. Women, on average, are not as strong or fast as men. Male muscle fibers are thicker, and their twitch speed is faster. For example the female world record 1mile run 4.12mins. The united State men's Highschool 1mile record is 3.53mins. So the fastest teenage boy in America is faster than the fastest woman in the world. Its the same for the 100m, 400m, 800m, down the line male highschool records are faster than female world records. And those boys aren't fully mature. Legs muscles in runners hit the peak in their 30s, not teens.

With that level of physical disparity, it wouldn't be fair to have mixed professional sports. That's why we have mens and womens events in the olympics. Yes of course there will be outliers, women who can compete, but you'd wouldn't have enough to make entire teams of them or have more than 1 or 2 in an entire league.

Now there are female leagues and those are doing just fine
While this is true, we've also been selecting men and women for particular roles for hundreds of years. Selecting differently would decrease differences. There is also more money available for training male athletes. Better coaches, supplements, nutritional advice would improve females performance. Many women still have to hold a job becuase the pay is very low, so they don't get anywhere near the time to exercise or practice. There was a woman here who played for soccer and cricket national team at the same time and still struggled to make a living.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think females will completely catch up to men. I think they can get much closer than they are now. Some of it will be genetics and some how we spend money on the different genders.
 

Saelune

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Not every man is as capable as most male professional athletes. Rhonda Rousey would last far better in the NFL than Jon Stewart. I think we should ignore sex and go based on actual physical and technical ability. As I said before, it would still likely naturally filter the sexes, but this way those outliers, ie stronger women, weaker men, would be put in appropriate brackets of ability. Humans are an inconsistant species.
 

Squilookle

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Dirty Hipsters said:
Squilookle said:
Dirty Hipsters said:
There's definitely some sports where I don't understand men and women not playing together. Golf for example. Golf is a skill game, strength and speed isn't important in it, so I don't see men having an advantage, so why does it need separate leagues?
I could argue that strength is important if only for the distance the shot can be taken, but considering golf has an in-built equaliser (that being different tee-off points for men and women) then yeah, there's really no reason they can't play together. Maybe they just want to televise twice the number of players in twice the tournaments or something, I dunno.
If strength was that important then Tiger Woods wouldn't be the best golf player based on his little match stick arms.
If strength was how important? As important as I said it was?

Because I said it was important solely for shot distance, nothing more.

Nobody is saying that's all there is to golf.