Is there any REASON gay marriage is wrong?

[King Toasty]

Stuff like this has happened all the time in history: Slavery, smoking, carbohydrates, ect. We (or the majority) thought it was good, but it turned out not to be. Wouldn't it be great if there was someone who knew everything and wouldn't make stupid mistakes like that...

Oh hey, God.

God gave us this handy book that tells us what is right and wrong.

The Bible.

Just to make sure, you are aware that the Bible endorses various things that we in the modern age think are terrible (like Slavery). Maybe it's time God sent down another book, maybe with some updated and clarified language to make sure we get the message this time. You know, if he actually cares that much about people following his word to the letter.

He did send down another book, some 1600 years ago. He gave it to some Arabs out in the desert and they decided to make this new religion called Islam out of it. You probably haven't heard of it, it's pretty underground right now.

OK, this is a tangent and total flamebait, but I honestly find the Quran (forget where the ' goes) to be more valid than the torah (old testament for you christians) or bible. The torah was supposedly found on some mountain in the middle east, the bible is the supposed word of someone who was centuries dead when it got around to being written, wheras the Quran is the words of someone who was alive at the time of writing. Not that I believe in Islam or anything but out of those three, I personally find the Quran to have more validity than the other books.

If we're really going into tangent and flamebait territory, I'd be more willing to worship Aslan than I would any of the deities of the Abrahamic religions.

Wrong. The Vikings had the best heaven: Drink and feast all day, kill each other at night. Come back to life and repeat.

That's pretty cool. However are you not aware that Aslan is a giant, talking LION? That is all different shades of awesome.

Plus I don't like killing or being killed, even if I was resurrected afterwards, so Valhalla doesn't sound too good to me. Narnia however? Fuck, someone find me that wardrobe!

Wow this is off-topic. haha

But bro, you'd be an EXTREMELY DRUNK VIKING! FIGHTING LIONS!

Before the admins find this off-topic: This is an ironic parody of religious viewpoints on gay relationships.

I don't like fighting. And if you've seen me drunk, you wouldn't want me anywhere near ANYTHING dangerous that could be a weapon. I've injured somebody with soap before, and you wanna give me a sword?

Plus Lions are too awesome to kill, hence my love of Aslan and all he stands for.

But if you hurt somebody- or yourself- you wake up in the morning! It's perfect!
And lions are cool and all, but what about VIKING LIONS!? YEAH. YOU HEARD ME. Drunk, ax-wielding extremely bearded viking lions.

 

[Slash Joel]

First of all this thread is asking for semi intelligent reason why it?s wrong and yes I fail to say it?s wrong but I thought I would try to give a reason just why not to. Second I know it?s not full proof I say that in the first sentence with "ignoring the fact" the gene or genes have yet to be identified if they even exist, for all we know it psychological development which brings up the argument of choice or its part of the hormone bath a fetes receives to determine its gender. With the gene case mutation changes DNA giving rise to the gay gene which then the environment does the selecting for if it will survive or not. With three different selection process that can then happen to it sexual selection, directional selection, and stabilize selection. The gene fails the sexual selection by no reproduction taking place and the stabilize selection given that gays are few within the human race and that weeds out the smaller groups but as currently neither of the environmental pressures lead to those selections given the fact that humans dominate this planet. Leaving directional selection that leaves room for the genes even without sex to survive for diversity reasons, which gives us the 8% or so of gays within the human race, if those surveys are to be believed, to be that group.
You must also take in to account for the fact that taboos such as no reproducing with close relatives is created by evolution, in the fact that close relative produced offspring are weaker given the fact that their likely hood to have a genetic recessive disorder is much higher (and no this is not inbreeding). Say what you want about influence of religion, being gay would not be tabooed like it is if there was not some evolutionary push to make it so. So gays may be tempting fate if they continue.
There two arguments one for each side because I neither hate nor support any side. So shut up troll and it is every living creature?s BASIC desire to pass on their genes it?s called a sex drive some humans are just oddballs when it comes to how they do it like choosing intelligently to fail through the use of birth control.

 

[ImmortalDrifter]

Those people from the abusive relationship example don't just suddenly think "wow guys are assholes...I wonder how women are. Imma go find out!" like it's some sudden switch. A lot of them have that tendency towards members of their own sex already there, it just took the bad experience to make them actually consider it.

But how can you be sure? You're evaluating peoples thoughts in a situation you haven't been in, I find it hard to find this argument credible.

I find it hard to find your argument credible when you said people magically turn homosexual after getting slapped around by their spouse a little.

Unless you, or someone you know, has first hand experience of randomly forming an attraction to members of your/their gender after receiving a backhand to the face or two, I simply have to call your argument illegitimate.

I never said they magically turn homosexual i said they enter a homosexual relationship and consider themselves homosexual when before the incident the were not. It happened to my cousin Heidi, immediately after exiting an obviously abusive relationship she announced she was a lesbian despite her being in several heterosexual relationships prior to this with no mention of any sort of feelings otherwise. I even asked her friends and none of them said she ever mentioned being gay before that point.

i know i can't judge every case on my cousin, but it serves as an adequate base for my argument.

 

[idodo35]

how can it be rigt? it is a filth and emberecement for every strait couple that ever got maried couse it compares us to gay people same could be said for gay sex gay kissing and gays holding hands at the park as a couple
(for everyone who didnt understand THAT WAS SARCASTIC)
there is realy nothing wrong with it... i cant imagine what resnable arguments there are to be made against the rigt of two people who love each outher (gay lesbians or straits) to express theyr love in a ceremony espacialy if like in my country (israel aka "religios nuts controlled land") where it is the only way to be ligally reconized as a couple (no not religios wedings doesnt count in fact i know a few couples who arent considerd legaly maried because instead of a rabi they had the brooms grandpa to anounce theyr married...)

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Those people from the abusive relationship example don't just suddenly think "wow guys are assholes...I wonder how women are. Imma go find out!" like it's some sudden switch. A lot of them have that tendency towards members of their own sex already there, it just took the bad experience to make them actually consider it.

But how can you be sure? You're evaluating peoples thoughts in a situation you haven't been in, I find it hard to find this argument credible.

You're doing the exact same thing.


Homosexuality is strictly defined as having sexual and emotional feelings for a person of the same sex. You are not a homosexual if you have sex with a person of the same sex, but you are gay if you have feelings, sexual or not, for that person. By this definition, a person sleeping with someone of the same sex doesn't necesarely mean they're gay. They might be open minded or just wanted to try it. Who knows. The fact of the matter is, sexuality is defined from the get go. If a woman finds solace in the arms of a woman after exiting an abusive relationship and end up having feelings for that woman then you're either gay or bisexual.

 

[King Toasty]

how can it be rigt? it is a filth and emberecement for every strait couple that ever got maried couse it compares us to gay people same could be said for gay sex gay kissing and gays holding hands at the park as a couple
(for everyone who didnt understand THAT WAS SARCASTIC)
there is realy nothing wrong with it... i cant imagine what resnable arguments there are to be made against the rigt of two people who love each outher (gay lesbians or straits) to express theyr love in a ceremony espacialy if like in my country (israel aka "religios nuts controlled land") where it is the only way to be ligally reconized as a couple (no not religios wedings doesnt count in fact i know a few couples who arent considerd legaly maried because instead of a rabi they had the brooms grandpa to anounce theyr married...)

I was reading that, and I'm all, RAGE WARRR. Lucky you activated the /sarcasm switch. The rest of your argument is reasonably sound.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Certain people are people i noticed in the "Should gay characters be allowed in kids shows" forum, who will blast you as a homophobe the second you offer an arguement against them in any way shape or form.

And I am aware, its a possibility, not an absolute certainty. You won't get always get cancer from smoking, but its possible.

You want to deny homosexuals the right to adopt a child and at the same time basically insult them and yet you don't want to get blasted as a homophobe. Unfortunately, you haven't provided a single shred of evidence for your beliefs and whilst I respect them I also reserve the right to blast them until either you manage to scoop up some evidence(if ever) or I get bored. Hell, even if it was a choice does it really matter that much when it comes to how good they can raise a child? No, it does not.

 

[Vault101]

You have to assume first that there is right and wrong that applies to everyone. If not, then there is no debate. Each person decides what is right and wrong for his own self and disregards the "right/wrong" decisions of others.

So how do we decide this?

We must look to someone else, someone who can decide for everyone. I think we can all agree that no one is perfect. Everyone makes mistakes. So we probably shouldn't let a single person decide. How about a group of people? Thats better, but it still leaves room for mistakes. Again, no one is perfect. Then how do we decide? Have EVERYBODY decide (popular vote)? A very cliché phrase comes to mind:

"If everyone ELSE was jumping off a cliff, would you?"

Stuff like this has happened all the time in history: Slavery, smoking, carbohydrates, ect. We (or the majority) thought it was good, but it turned out not to be. Wouldn't it be great if there was someone who knew everything and wouldn't make stupid mistakes like that...

Oh hey, God.

God gave us this handy book that tells us what is right and wrong.

The Bible.

And in the Bible it is mentioned several times that homosexuality is "Detestable to God". Leviticus 18 and 20 off the top 'o my head.

Before you hit the quote button and let the flaming pour from your fingertips, remember that God doesn't hate anyone. ANYONE! He loves ALL people, no matter what they've done.


Also, real quick, "Separation of church and state" does NOT, I repeat **NOT** mean no religion in government. I means that no church (or religion) can have power over the government and vice-versa. So the Pope cannot govern or make laws. It also means that the government can't set up a state church or enforce a certain religion.

its completley baffles me how you compare somones sexual orientation to slavery, no one chooses to be homosexual its just hwo they are, and supressing that is NOT healthy

what we are talking about are induviduals, what right does somone have to say that they canot be allowed to be who they are?

the thing is if they were christion...well fair enough its up to them to work out their faith...and even then isnt it really between them and god? we have free will if you belive there are concequences then you take responsibility for them..everyone else should mind their own bloody buisness, I mean if you dont like homosecuality why cant you just be an adult...suck it up and deal with it?

oh and not to mention some of us are not christian...therefore you are messing with peoples rights, I mean would you be ok with somone trying to force you to be musilm? or Pagan?

anyway the Bible....really hasnt done much good for people in general you know why?

Its a stepping stone towards cencorship, towards backwards thinking it goes against pushing the boundarys

and pushing the boundarys its essential for society to progress, in art games and music pushign the boudaries is what made thease mediums evolve

pushing the boundaries or doing things that seemed unacceptable is what gave women their rights

pushing the boundaries is what made us finally go "you know what? yeah your gay and thats OK"

It seems that trying to preving gay marrage...or gayness is really just delaying the inevitable

 

[ReservoirAngel]

Those people from the abusive relationship example don't just suddenly think "wow guys are assholes...I wonder how women are. Imma go find out!" like it's some sudden switch. A lot of them have that tendency towards members of their own sex already there, it just took the bad experience to make them actually consider it.

But how can you be sure? You're evaluating peoples thoughts in a situation you haven't been in, I find it hard to find this argument credible.

I find it hard to find your argument credible when you said people magically turn homosexual after getting slapped around by their spouse a little.

Unless you, or someone you know, has first hand experience of randomly forming an attraction to members of your/their gender after receiving a backhand to the face or two, I simply have to call your argument illegitimate.

I never said they magically turn homosexual i said they enter a homosexual relationship and consider themselves homosexual when before the incident the were not. It happened to my cousin Heidi, immediately after exiting an obviously abusive relationship she announced she was a lesbian despite her being in several heterosexual relationships prior to this with no mention of any sort of feelings otherwise. I even asked her friends and none of them said she ever mentioned being gay before that point.

i know i can't judge every case on my cousin, but it serves as an adequate base for my argument.

Very well.

I match your cousin Heidi (incidentally one of my favourite names to say out loud) with my friend Jamie. Admitted to very strong homosexual feelings and urges, as well as weak heterosexual ones. Pursued many relationships with women because "it was easier" to get a woman to date you than it was to get a man, despite him admitting to me that he much preferred guys. After being jerked around and treated like shit by a series of bitchy girlfriends he finally declared women weren't worth the effort and since then has only pursued relationships with men.

I'm of the thinking that your cousin Heidi had feelings for women, just never admitted it. This isn't me judging her in any way, I'm just following my train of thought.

 

[Slash Joel]

.

 

[GenericPCUser]

First of all this thread is asking for semi intelligent reason why it?s wrong and yes I fail to say it?s wrong but I thought I would try to give a reason just why not to. Second I know it?s not full proof I say that in the first sentence with "ignoring the fact" the gene or genes have yet to be identified if they even exist, for all we know it psychological development which brings up the argument of choice or its part of the hormone bath a fetes receives to determine its gender. With the gene case mutation changes DNA giving rise to the gay gene which then the environment does the selecting for if it will survive or not. With three different selection process that can then happen to it sexual selection, directional selection, and stabilize selection. The gene fails the sexual selection by no reproduction taking place and the stabilize selection given that gays are few within the human race and that weeds out the smaller groups but as currently neither of the environmental pressures lead to those selections given the fact that humans dominate this planet. Leaving directional selection that leaves room for the genes even without sex to survive for diversity reasons, which gives us the 8% or so of gays within the human race, if those surveys are to be believed, to be that group.
You must also take in to account for the fact that taboos such as no reproducing with close relatives is created by evolution, in the fact that close relative produced offspring are weaker given the fact that their likely hood to have a genetic recessive disorder is much higher (and no this is not inbreeding). Say what you want about influence of religion, being gay would not be tabooed like it is if there was not some evolutionary push to make it so. So gays may be tempting fate if they continue.
There two arguments one for each side because I neither hate nor support any side. So shut up troll and it is every living creature?s BASIC desire to pass on their genes it?s called a sex drive some humans are just oddballs when it comes to how they do it like choosing intelligently to fail through the use of birth control.

Why does this look so familiar...

 

[idodo35]

how can it be rigt? it is a filth and emberecement for every strait couple that ever got maried couse it compares us to gay people same could be said for gay sex gay kissing and gays holding hands at the park as a couple
(for everyone who didnt understand THAT WAS SARCASTIC)
there is realy nothing wrong with it... i cant imagine what resnable arguments there are to be made against the rigt of two people who love each outher (gay lesbians or straits) to express theyr love in a ceremony espacialy if like in my country (israel aka "religios nuts controlled land") where it is the only way to be ligally reconized as a couple (no not religios wedings doesnt count in fact i know a few couples who arent considerd legaly maried because instead of a rabi they had the brooms grandpa to anounce theyr married...)

I was reading that, and I'm all, RAGE WARRR. Lucky you activated the /sarcasm switch. The rest of your argument is reasonably sound.

yea that was the meaning to show how stupid can people be the argument in the begining is my co students from a couple years ago i almost punched him when he said it in the discusion...

 

[AndyFromMonday]

I never said they magically turn homosexual i said they enter a homosexual relationship and consider themselves homosexual when before the incident the were not. It happened to my cousin Heidi, immediately after exiting an obviously abusive relationship she announced she was a lesbian despite her being in several heterosexual relationships prior to this with no mention of any sort of feelings otherwise. I even asked her friends and none of them said she ever mentioned being gay before that point.

i know i can't judge every case on my cousin, but it serves as an adequate base for my argument.

Homosexual feelings often get repressed due to the stigma associated with being gay. Often gay people tend to just "go with the flow" so as to not get harassed. The fact of the matter is, only she knows what's in her head. Maybe she's bisexual or maybe she's been a lesbian her whole life. Who the hell cares? Is she happy? If so, then it shouldn't really matter who she's fucking.

 

[King Toasty]

/snip

Dude, reposting is unnecessary. It was TL;DR.

 

[ReservoirAngel]

how can it be rigt? it is a filth and emberecement for every strait couple that ever got maried couse it compares us to gay people same could be said for gay sex gay kissing and gays holding hands at the park as a couple
(for everyone who didnt understand THAT WAS SARCASTIC)
there is realy nothing wrong with it... i cant imagine what resnable arguments there are to be made against the rigt of two people who love each outher (gay lesbians or straits) to express theyr love in a ceremony espacialy if like in my country (israel aka "religios nuts controlled land") where it is the only way to be ligally reconized as a couple (no not religios wedings doesnt count in fact i know a few couples who arent considerd legaly maried because instead of a rabi they had the brooms grandpa to anounce theyr married...)

I was reading that, and I'm all, RAGE WARRR. Lucky you activated the /sarcasm switch. The rest of your argument is reasonably sound.

yea that was the meaning to show how stupid can people be the argument in the begining is my co students from a couple years ago i almost punched him when he said it in the discusion...

You have more restraint that I have. I kneed a guy in the balls for saying much the same thing once. He threatened to have me arrested for sexual harassment, it was hilarious.

 

[tthor]

unnatural, bible, idk. look, the world is filled with stupid people,and they will think what they want to think, no matter what logic says. Hell, there is group based in california that believes the earth is flat, with about 3000 members. I shit you not, they honestly believe that the earth is FLAT

 

[AndyFromMonday]

snip

Animals also engage in what can be defined as homosexual behavior. This sort of ruins your entire argument.

 

[King Toasty]

how can it be rigt? it is a filth and emberecement for every strait couple that ever got maried couse it compares us to gay people same could be said for gay sex gay kissing and gays holding hands at the park as a couple
(for everyone who didnt understand THAT WAS SARCASTIC)
there is realy nothing wrong with it... i cant imagine what resnable arguments there are to be made against the rigt of two people who love each outher (gay lesbians or straits) to express theyr love in a ceremony espacialy if like in my country (israel aka "religios nuts controlled land") where it is the only way to be ligally reconized as a couple (no not religios wedings doesnt count in fact i know a few couples who arent considerd legaly maried because instead of a rabi they had the brooms grandpa to anounce theyr married...)

I was reading that, and I'm all, RAGE WARRR. Lucky you activated the /sarcasm switch. The rest of your argument is reasonably sound.

yea that was the meaning to show how stupid can people be the argument in the begining is my co students from a couple years ago i almost punched him when he said it in the discusion...

You have more restraint that I have. I kneed a guy in the balls for saying much the same thing once. He threatened to have me arrested for sexual harassment, it was hilarious.

:'D
I mean, I know people who are anti-gay, but they're smart and put up well-reasoned arguments. But with people who go ad-hominem (attacking the speaker, not the argument), I can't stand them.

 

[GenericPCUser]

snip

Animals also engage in what can be defined as homosexual behavior. This sort of ruins your entire argument.

????

I was never arguing against homosexuality....

In fact, I linked the wiki of homosexuality in animals like twice in this thread already.



I was commenting about how he reposted the same wall of text a few moments after his first post.