Is there really no "Cons" to a Vegetable only diet?
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PaulH said:
No... But I wish it was... After what I just put myself through, I really wish booze was a food group.
A full vegan/vegetarian diet will require selective supplementation as certain essential amino acids are absent from plant life. Some fatty acid supplements may also be required as the plant matter that could supply them are unhealthy if consumed in the required amounts unless you can afford or have access to some rather uncommon vegetables. Removal of all animal products from a person's diet (eggs, fish oil and diary products) will basically make something like 30% of your nutrition necessarily be consumed as pills. Overall its not particularly healthy but modern science makes it perfectly viable with only minor side effects. Laxative, diuretic and unfortunately flatulence effects are common to people who start such diets; normalization takes somewhere between 6-18 months for most people. Anemics, diabetics and pregnant women might consider eating artificial foods to compensate for their condition.
Awww. I wish I was there to help. Does sound like you need an Irish bandaid.KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Humans are not biologically engineered to deal with an all vegetarian/vegan diet. For starters, there are specific enzymes and proteins that are only found in animal products which are absolutely necessary for the function of neurons. So if you aren't using supplements, (as you will need supplements for so many other things too) you're gonna have a bad time.
Secondly, our digestive tracts are not built for such a diet. It's extremely difficult for animals to extract nutrients from plant matter. The sheer amount you need to consume just to hit acceptable levels of caloric intake is huge, which is why herbivores often spend large amounts of time grazing. Their tracts are also equipped with multiple stomachs or are just longer in general in order to maximize nutrient extraction. Conversely, animal products surrender their nutrients very easily, which is why carnivores/omnivores can go longer without food and spend shorter time eating.
The plus side is, you'll likely lose a lot of weight on a vegan/vegetarian diet. The bad news is you'll also have some major nutritional issues that you have to make sure you address everyday.
Secondly, our digestive tracts are not built for such a diet. It's extremely difficult for animals to extract nutrients from plant matter. The sheer amount you need to consume just to hit acceptable levels of caloric intake is huge, which is why herbivores often spend large amounts of time grazing. Their tracts are also equipped with multiple stomachs or are just longer in general in order to maximize nutrient extraction. Conversely, animal products surrender their nutrients very easily, which is why carnivores/omnivores can go longer without food and spend shorter time eating.
The plus side is, you'll likely lose a lot of weight on a vegan/vegetarian diet. The bad news is you'll also have some major nutritional issues that you have to make sure you address everyday.
...uhhhh, it depends? I rarely recommend any kind of diet - vegan and vegetarian included - since they can have such varying effects on people and it's often best to consult with trained and qualified medical professionals before you change your drastically change your diet.
Like, there's so many variations to Vegan and Vegetarian diets that 'no cons' is such a wild thing to say. Which diet in particular? What was the person's diet beforehand? Do they have any pre-existing health conditions/nutrient deficiencies? All of that can cause problems regardless of what diet you're changing to/from.
Diets: They're serious business.
That said, it's always a good idea to double check dietitians as well. Just because they're qualified doesn't mean they're good.
(apologies for the sort-of-hijack of your post, I just like to clarify the whole Nutritionist thing whenever I see people talk about them, 'cause that shit's important).
Like, there's so many variations to Vegan and Vegetarian diets that 'no cons' is such a wild thing to say. Which diet in particular? What was the person's diet beforehand? Do they have any pre-existing health conditions/nutrient deficiencies? All of that can cause problems regardless of what diet you're changing to/from.
Diets: They're serious business.
...the big problem there is that 'nutritionist' aren't legally protected terms, so anyone can call themselves as such. Nutritionists can be quite informative in regards to advice when you are switching diets for whatever reason, but it's critically important that you do your research on who you're consulting and if they're coming from a credited association (typically having an actual University degree in Nutrition at minimum). Dietitian is (at least in most countries) a legally protected term and thus requires actual qualification to be labeled it.MarsAtlas said:
That said, it's always a good idea to double check dietitians as well. Just because they're qualified doesn't mean they're good.
(apologies for the sort-of-hijack of your post, I just like to clarify the whole Nutritionist thing whenever I see people talk about them, 'cause that shit's important).
We're omnivores and there are very good reasons for it.
Apes seem to be predisposed towards omnivores, the main examples off the top of my heat being the chimpanzees and the orangutans, both of whom eat meat including the meat of other primates.
Our digestive tract is not well built for eating plants exclusively, we lack much of an appendix or other internal organs that many herbivores have to extract the maximum nutrition from plants.
Meat's energy density tends to be much greater than that of most plants when it comes to what we can extract from it. This is partly due to cellulose, the sugar based cell wall of all plant cells. It's almost indigestible and the only things that really break it down are the bacteria in the guts and stomachs of certain animals like cows, because of this it's more efficient to let cows eat something we cannot (grass), and then eat the cows where we can easily extract the nutrients from the animal tissue.
Adding to this, our brains began to really develop as a species after the advent of fire, fire and cooking allows us to extract far more energy from plants and animals than we would usually get. This coupled with the greater energy density of meat allowed us to spend more energy on growing our brains so large, energy wasteful, brains stopped being a disadvantage to survival.
Moreover, it's really hard to get complex proteins and fats from plants, things that we need to consume to stay healthy. Iron deficiency can also be a hazard as can deficiencies in vitamin B-12 or vitamin D. (Note, deficiencies in B-12 and Iron can both cause the blood to stop transporting oxygen as readily as a healthy person's, a condition known as Anemia) Unfortunately, despite Iron being prevalent in dark, leafy greens, these plants also contain minerals that prevent our bodies from readily absorbing them.
P.S. Modern life adds even more hazards to all vegetable diets, canned vegetables full of salt for instance, and switching to a died high in fiber suddenly can cause large amounts of gas to build up inside you which also gives rise to bloating. Vegetables high in Potassium or Phosphorus can also cause damage in people with kidney issues because the kidneys cannot excrete the excess minerals which then become toxic in higher concentrations. Oh, and eating too many vegetables high in beta-carotene (like carrots) can cause our bodies to have issues absorbing vitamin A.
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In essence, we rely on cooked meat because that's what spurred our evolution, we lack the digestive system to really take advantage of vegetables but we can use animals to process the vegetables for us and then eat them. This allows us to gather the difficult to acquire nutrients we need in easy doses instead of constantly grazing for nutrition like herbivores do.
Apes seem to be predisposed towards omnivores, the main examples off the top of my heat being the chimpanzees and the orangutans, both of whom eat meat including the meat of other primates.
Our digestive tract is not well built for eating plants exclusively, we lack much of an appendix or other internal organs that many herbivores have to extract the maximum nutrition from plants.
Meat's energy density tends to be much greater than that of most plants when it comes to what we can extract from it. This is partly due to cellulose, the sugar based cell wall of all plant cells. It's almost indigestible and the only things that really break it down are the bacteria in the guts and stomachs of certain animals like cows, because of this it's more efficient to let cows eat something we cannot (grass), and then eat the cows where we can easily extract the nutrients from the animal tissue.
Adding to this, our brains began to really develop as a species after the advent of fire, fire and cooking allows us to extract far more energy from plants and animals than we would usually get. This coupled with the greater energy density of meat allowed us to spend more energy on growing our brains so large, energy wasteful, brains stopped being a disadvantage to survival.
Moreover, it's really hard to get complex proteins and fats from plants, things that we need to consume to stay healthy. Iron deficiency can also be a hazard as can deficiencies in vitamin B-12 or vitamin D. (Note, deficiencies in B-12 and Iron can both cause the blood to stop transporting oxygen as readily as a healthy person's, a condition known as Anemia) Unfortunately, despite Iron being prevalent in dark, leafy greens, these plants also contain minerals that prevent our bodies from readily absorbing them.
P.S. Modern life adds even more hazards to all vegetable diets, canned vegetables full of salt for instance, and switching to a died high in fiber suddenly can cause large amounts of gas to build up inside you which also gives rise to bloating. Vegetables high in Potassium or Phosphorus can also cause damage in people with kidney issues because the kidneys cannot excrete the excess minerals which then become toxic in higher concentrations. Oh, and eating too many vegetables high in beta-carotene (like carrots) can cause our bodies to have issues absorbing vitamin A.
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In essence, we rely on cooked meat because that's what spurred our evolution, we lack the digestive system to really take advantage of vegetables but we can use animals to process the vegetables for us and then eat them. This allows us to gather the difficult to acquire nutrients we need in easy doses instead of constantly grazing for nutrition like herbivores do.
Speaking as someone who has been for over 15 years: Like others have said before, you CANNOT get everything you need for just vegetables. For instance, vitamin B12 is something you can only get from animal products. Meat is a very efficient source, but you can substitute it with eggs, milk and so on. This is something you need to really watch. Our body stores a lot of B12 and it will take a while to develop a deficieny, but a lack of B12 is not fun (and can cause permanent damage). There's also iron to consider. Sure, you can get it from leafy greens and stuff, but legumes and nuts are often more efficient. While it is possible to get everything you need from a vegetarian diet, you need a healthy and balanced diet to do so. Go vegan and you will have to take supplements. Vegetables only... that's just a bad idea.
As for losing the ability to eat meat: it's not as bad a throwing up, unless you ate like a huge steak or something. It's more like your stomach and intestines are going to give you trouble of the painful kind. So, if you want to go back to eating meat, you have to slowly introduce it into your diet again. But hey, that goes for many types of food. Suddenly up the amount of veggies you eat and you won't be having much fun in the bathroom either.
As for losing the ability to eat meat: it's not as bad a throwing up, unless you ate like a huge steak or something. It's more like your stomach and intestines are going to give you trouble of the painful kind. So, if you want to go back to eating meat, you have to slowly introduce it into your diet again. But hey, that goes for many types of food. Suddenly up the amount of veggies you eat and you won't be having much fun in the bathroom either.
My teacher once told me that it all really depends on how you cook your food. if you have just raw vegetables, not a healthy diet at all. But if you really now how to prepare your greens and know which vegetable are for what (protein, calcium, etc), then there should be no cons to an all veggie diet. Though I guess you would technically have to increase the amount of food you eat, since they have less calories or whatnot. Keep in mind, this is mostly conjecture, so please forgive me if I have made a mistake somewhere.
I haven't, but I think I'd like to stick to washing vegetables. While some bacteria are probably harmless or even beneficial, a lot of the things in soil are not. I've had tapeworms once and I'd rather not repeat that. Plus, soil varies from region to region. I guess you could grow plants artificially in soil that does not contain anything harmless, but if you're resorting to that, it'd make more sense to just take a supplement.Corey Schaff said:
You can't get B12 from veggies, there are similar compounds in vegetables but you still need B12. Its not that hard to get, either in pill form, fortified soya milk and even some breakfast cereals.Corey Schaff said:
http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/everyvegan#is
Aside from the horrible taste? Not really sure, though it seems to have been mostly answered already.
(I do envy those that can tolerate the taste of greens. Extremely bitter regardless of preparation, with an unbearable texture, for me).
(I do envy those that can tolerate the taste of greens. Extremely bitter regardless of preparation, with an unbearable texture, for me).
Bullsh*t! I have been a vegetarian for longer than 6 years now and, yes, you do get more sensitive to the taste of meat. You tend to notice immediatly if you get meat in your mouth (You would be surprised how many people in the food industry apparently don't get what you mean if you order something as "vegetarian"). But you aren't unable to eat it and you most certainly don't have to throw up from it.Recusant said:
A truly "vegetable only" diet would be unhealthy, unless you're using the word "vegetable" in a broad colloquial "everything that grows on a plant" kind of way.
People seem to think that vegetarians struggle to get enough protein but that isn't really true, not for me anyway. Vegans have to work a bit harder to get a good balance, maybe having some vitamin fortified foods, but even that restriction isn't that difficult to organise.
There are millions of different permutations of a healthy and balanced diet so cutting out something like meat is easy to do while staying healthy, most people eat too much meat anyway so it might well be a net positive.
People seem to think that vegetarians struggle to get enough protein but that isn't really true, not for me anyway. Vegans have to work a bit harder to get a good balance, maybe having some vitamin fortified foods, but even that restriction isn't that difficult to organise.
There are millions of different permutations of a healthy and balanced diet so cutting out something like meat is easy to do while staying healthy, most people eat too much meat anyway so it might well be a net positive.
I tried a no meat diet, and had a nutritionist help me plan it. I got sicker than I've ever been. I switched to pescatarian and found it was the best diet I've ever been on. It wasn't about animal rights (though I am an animal lover) it was just that I grew up on an island in the Caribbean and had access to the worlds best fish and seafood in general (you can't convince me otherwise). I was forced to go back to other meats (I would cheat with bacon every now and again... I can't quit you ba-con and dairy/eggs but I try to eat local small farmed goods) because I moved out of the area and its harder to get fresh tropical fish which is the best way to eat it. I'm spoiled.
I have noticed since I switched to a less fish diet though my cognitive functions have decreased noticeably, especially since I went back home for a year and was able to resume the pescatarian diet and noticed a reversion to more normal function, well normal for me. Since then I've been trying to find a good market that carries the various fishes I enjoy that is reasonably priced but its difficult as the stuff thats trucked in isn't always quality. There's an art to picking fish meat.
I have come to the conclusion that some people are not physically set up to have a completely no meat diet. I've a theory you can tell who's a destined meat eater by their teeth. Prominent canines are a sign and general sharpness for people who should eat meat. I could be absolutely batshit crazy though. But it makes sense to me. Some humans have flatter teeth than others. *shrug*
I have noticed since I switched to a less fish diet though my cognitive functions have decreased noticeably, especially since I went back home for a year and was able to resume the pescatarian diet and noticed a reversion to more normal function, well normal for me. Since then I've been trying to find a good market that carries the various fishes I enjoy that is reasonably priced but its difficult as the stuff thats trucked in isn't always quality. There's an art to picking fish meat.
I have come to the conclusion that some people are not physically set up to have a completely no meat diet. I've a theory you can tell who's a destined meat eater by their teeth. Prominent canines are a sign and general sharpness for people who should eat meat. I could be absolutely batshit crazy though. But it makes sense to me. Some humans have flatter teeth than others. *shrug*
Wow lol, people can't even pretend to control their biases. Vegetarian and vegan diets have been demonstrated time and again to be as healthy, if not slightly healthier, than diets that incorporate meat. So despite the fear mongering in this thread, while nutrient deficiencies can of course occur in vegetarian/vegan diets, there is no reason to believe they are more common in vegetarian diets than in those that incorporate meat.