Is this a contradiction?

[somonels]

As we all know, the site rules on the Escapist are fairly strict. One of these fairly strict rules is the rule that one cannot do anything supporting anything illegal, specifically piracy.

Indeed, at one point, when I made a group supporting the actions of The Pirate Bay, it was removed. Makes sense. It is against the rules. I made a new group simply supporting copyright reform, no harm.

However, for a few months now I've been a member of a group here called IRA Supporters Group. No action has been taken against it. Let's take a look at the situation:

The Pirate Bay- provides free music and movies.

The Irish Republican Army - killed British people until they gave up part of Ireland (the group specifically states in its description that it does not support the modern terrorist group bearing only the same name as the original IRA, so I won't go into all that).

So, is this a contradiction in the site's rules? Or do they just consider piracy a worse crime than murder and treason? (To make this clear I do legitimately support the IRA, but technically they committed murder and treason).

So, support for the Lebanese rebels should also be removed? How about pages supporting the Arabian Spring demonstrations? Sorry, all of it is the same. The Irish people rose up a little less than a century ago and declared themselves independent. the IRA has split multiple times over the century, before the civil war and in the 70s. The label is a lot deeper and diverse than you saying it's OK to violate copyrights.

Do some research or consult an Irishman with knowledge in history next time, or just someone with interest in Irish history.

 

[Fasckira]

Is this a contradiction? No. Is this thread a "look at me!" thread? Yes.

 

[Verlander]

I'm not going to get into an IRA discussion (although it's like saying you support the KKK, but don't advocate hanging black people), but I will say that Piracy affects the industry in which The Escapist is involved, and also many of their advertisers and sponsors.

At the moment I can see a "Dirt 3" advert on screen, and I could say "hmm, that looks good" (and it IS good), and buy it. Or the same situation could arise, but I could be swayed by pro-piracy arguments on here to try it via a pirating method first. You can see why a developer who has spend thousands on this game may take a dim view of this? As opposed to a political ideology, which is objective, and ultimately unrelated

 

[BlindTom]

I support the burning of infidels. Who's with me?!

 

[Crises^]

Most Irish people want to bury that in the past, They are not proud of alot of the things that the IRA did but some of the things they did was necessary for freedom from British oppression.
However Nowadays the IRA are a complete different bunch that doesn't have Most of Ireland support I say most because there will always be RA heads.
And just in case your wondering i live in south Dublin and don't support the IRA in anyway shape or form.

 

[Salad Is Murder]

So should every person who makes a post in support of a religion be held accountable for the various crimes and horrible tragedies inflicted by that religion?

If they make posts supporting terrorism in the name of religion, yes.

Ireland =/= IRA
Religion =/= Religious extremists

Supporting the IRA is like supporting religious extremists.
Supporting religion is like supporting an independent Ireland.

There's a world of difference.

No, I'm pretty sure that supporting a religion means that you support, nay exalt, all of the terrible things that might be associated with it.

You want 'turn the other cheek'? You get 'crusades' too. Buy one get one free.

 

[PaganFury]

Its no more a contradiction then say supporting people who plant bombs in cafes and somehow being disturbed by having your clearly against the rules group disbanded.

Also the post above me is awesome

 

[TheBelgianGuy]

So should every person who makes a post in support of a religion be held accountable for the various crimes and horrible tragedies inflicted by that religion?

If they make posts supporting terrorism in the name of religion, yes.

Ireland =/= IRA
Religion =/= Religious extremists

Supporting the IRA is like supporting religious extremists.
Supporting religion is like supporting an independent Ireland.

There's a world of difference.

No, I'm pretty sure that supporting a religion means that you support, nay exalt, all of the terrible things that might be associated with it.

You want 'turn the other cheek'? You get 'crusades' too. Buy one get one free.

No. Just no.

There's a major difference between a religion which has good and bad people in it, and a terrorist organization which has the goal to murder people.

Edit: You were being sarcastic, right? You know you can't READ sarcasm?

 

[Firewind_77]

Well the old IRA managed to get known as freedom fighters liberating a country that was being oppressed by the British for a couple of hundred years.

IRA has only been around since around 1913, that's not a couple of hundred years.

Well, yeah. I know that, but how long were the English here? That's what I meant. Also the original IRA crossed some lines, but mainly hit black and tan, R.I.C., British army and spies.

Sorry if I wasn't clear in what I said there.

 

[Arsen]

The Escapists are dicks for not allowing us to either vouch for or give a decent argument that piracy has its merits. They are just doing so to earn crebility in the legitimate videogame world. Guess what? That's a bad strategy to use.

 

[AnarchyUK]

Well, yeah. I know that, but how long were the English here? That's what I meant. Also the original IRA crossed some lines, but mainly hit black and tan, R.I.C., British army and spies.

Sorry if I wasn't clear in what I said there.

Crossing the line, makes them something not to be supported, and any argument they may have had becomes moot.

Besides there are plenty of cases of the IRA killing "spies" which were just normal people.

Ultimately this leads to the point if you are willing to kill someone to get what you want then you don't deserve to be supported

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

We don't allow people to advocate illegal acts in the forums for the same reason that you aren't allowed to walk out into the street and start trying to convince people to break into a store. If the IRA group wasn't banned it's because it hasn't been brought to our attention yet. Thanks for doing that.

 

[Firewind_77]

Well, yeah. I know that, but how long were the English here? That's what I meant. Also the original IRA crossed some lines, but mainly hit black and tan, R.I.C., British army and spies.

Sorry if I wasn't clear in what I said there.

Crossing the line, makes them something not to be supported, and any argument they may have had becomes moot.

Besides there are plenty of cases of the IRA killing "spies" which were just normal people.

Ultimately this leads to the point if you are willing to kill someone to get what you want then you don't deserve to be supported

That's true, man. I'm not saying they didn't do bad things. But as far as I'm concerned, they were the lesser of two evils in that period. The English actually had wide spread support in Ireland until 1916 and their handling of the leaders. Shooting James Connolly in a chair is widely seen as their main loss of support. Then there's all the stuff the Black and Tans did; which actually amount to war crimes in the present day. You know, burning a city, opening machine gun fire into a civilian crowd in revenge, shooting people because they could....

However, all the IRA stuff from the Troubles with the bombings? That's sickening. It's genuinely sad to see people hate eachother for no reason like that. I mean, what did stuff like Omagh accomplish?

But really, we're derailing the thread. I hope you'll at least try to understand my point of view, but if not, that's okay too.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Why on Earth would you be in an IRA supporters group?

Which IRA? 'Provisional', 'Real, 'True' or 'Original Recipe'?

Wait... the last one is KFC not IRA.

 

[Atmos Duality]

The Escapists are dicks for not allowing us to either vouch for or give a decent argument that piracy has its merits. They are just doing so to earn crebility in the legitimate videogame world. Guess what? That's a bad strategy to use.

It technically could fall under "Sedition", but that's splitting hairs.
But more importantly, this practice covers their ass legally, and by fighting piracy (which is illegal) they establish a consistent record that further distances them from prosecution.
Besides, what better way is there to promote piracy than to link to easy sources of it?

 

[The-Epicly-Named-Man]

Well the old IRA managed to get known as freedom fighters liberating a country that was being oppressed by the British for a couple of hundred years.

IRA has only been around since around 1913, that's not a couple of hundred years.

He didn't say they were, he said the Brits oppressed the Irish for hundreds of years (which you can't deny).

Fenian's etc were NOT the IRA, they actually had morals, as in ONLY attack military targets, the second you attack civilians then you lose the moral high ground.

That's half true, but the IRA were actually the official army of the Republic during the War of Independence, after which they split into two factions; the Irish National Army, who supported Collins, and the IRA, who were the ones who fought for true sovereignty. They sort of went to sh*t after that. Also, the Fenians weren't all that great either.

AND besides what were the IRA fighting for? The northern Irish VOTED to stay within the UK union, to be honest the southern Irish can shut the fudge up for all I care, they were attacking people for no legitimate reason.

What would you do if your country was taken over by another, and only you and a few others weren't happy with it? I'm not defending their barbaric actions, but we have to remember, Ireland was as much their nation as it was anyone elses. And I'd also like to point out that they did believe that what they did would help their cause, and they weren't simply out to kill people.

US supported the Irish Terrorists for years, until 9/11 happened and they realized what its like to be on the receiving end, and woke up the the immoral things they were doing.

The Good Friday Agreement was signed in 1998 with some minor assistance from the American government, two years before 9/11.

But to OP, yes it is a contradiction but the Americans have a weird Irish fetish, where they believe they are Irish (Most of you are of English/Scottish decent, NOT ALL of you are Irish, I mean Obama went to Ireland to "see his ancestral homeland", hes 1/100 or something stupid Irish), and have rose tinted ideals of the Irish landscape, so let that contradiction slide.

That's very true, although I got called a d*ck by quite a few people for saying something similar on another thread, so you might want to edit that a bit.

OT; I disagree with the "condoning piracy is not acceptable" thing, but comparing it to the IRA isn't the best way to argue against it. Just saying.

 

[Salad Is Murder]

So should every person who makes a post in support of a religion be held accountable for the various crimes and horrible tragedies inflicted by that religion?

If they make posts supporting terrorism in the name of religion, yes.

Ireland =/= IRA
Religion =/= Religious extremists

Supporting the IRA is like supporting religious extremists.
Supporting religion is like supporting an independent Ireland.

There's a world of difference.

No, I'm pretty sure that supporting a religion means that you support, nay exalt, all of the terrible things that might be associated with it.

You want 'turn the other cheek'? You get 'crusades' too. Buy one get one free.

No. Just no.

There's a major difference between a religion which has good and bad people in it, and a terrorist organization which has the goal to murder people.

Edit: You were being sarcastic, right? You know you can't READ sarcasm?

Okay, now I'm confused...of the two, which one is the terrorist organization?


Aside: I know you can't 'read' sarcasm...but I was really aiming more for hyperbole; I thought it would be a little more obvious.

 

[kinapuffar]

So should every person who makes a post in support of a religion be held accountable for the various crimes and horrible tragedies inflicted by that religion?

If they make posts supporting terrorism in the name of religion, yes.

Ireland =/= IRA
Religion =/= Religious extremists

Supporting the IRA is like supporting religious extremists.
Supporting religion is like supporting an independent Ireland.

There's a world of difference.

No, I'm pretty sure that supporting a religion means that you support, nay exalt, all of the terrible things that might be associated with it.

You want 'turn the other cheek'? You get 'crusades' too. Buy one get one free.

Nnnnnnnnnope!

But fine, we'll go with your logic. You support the continued existance of humans, right? Then you support every mass murderer and criminal that ever lived.
Stalin, Pol Pot, Lenin, Hilter, Djingis Khan, Kublai Khan, Al-Qaeda, and everyone else.

It's so easy to lump everyone together in guilt by association! Fantastic.

 

[Salad Is Murder]

Yeah, but I

So should every person who makes a post in support of a religion be held accountable for the various crimes and horrible tragedies inflicted by that religion?

If they make posts supporting terrorism in the name of religion, yes.

Ireland =/= IRA
Religion =/= Religious extremists

Supporting the IRA is like supporting religious extremists.
Supporting religion is like supporting an independent Ireland.

There's a world of difference.

No, I'm pretty sure that supporting a religion means that you support, nay exalt, all of the terrible things that might be associated with it.

You want 'turn the other cheek'? You get 'crusades' too. Buy one get one free.

Nnnnnnnnnope!

But fine, we'll go with your logic. You support the continued existance of humans, right? Then you support every mass murderer and criminal that ever lived.
Stalin, Pol Pot, Lenin, Hilter, Djingis Khan, Kublai Khan, Al-Qaeda, and everyone else.

It's so easy to lump everyone together in guilt by association! Fantastic.

What if I do support all of those people, who are you to judge meh!

 

[AnarchyUK]

That's true, man. I'm not saying they didn't do bad things. But as far as I'm concerned, they were the lesser of two evils in that period. The English actually had wide spread support in Ireland until 1916 and their handling of the leaders. Shooting James Connolly in a chair is widely seen as their main loss of support. Then there's all the stuff the Black and Tans did; which actually amount to war crimes in the present day. You know, burning a city, opening machine gun fire into a civilian crowd in revenge, shooting people because they could....

However, all the IRA stuff from the Troubles with the bombings? That's sickening. It's genuinely sad to see people hate eachother for no reason like that. I mean, what did stuff like Omagh accomplish?

But really, we're derailing the thread. I hope you'll at least try to understand my point of view, but if not, that's okay too.

Agreed, you do make solid arguments. Ultimately its down to opinion, of which neither of us will be truly right.