Is this a perfect world?

[lacktheknack]

If something can improve, then it's inherently imperfect.

I'm not even going to start with the insanity that is "objective", but I'm pretty sure that we can all agree that the world would be improved with fewer senseless murders, for starters.

 

[JagermanXcell]

Nope, hopefully i'll live long enough to see some progress to a better imperfect world though. That'll be something worth dying happy for.

 

[Zakarath]

I'm not sold on the idea that there even can be a 'perfect world.' But if there is, this certainly isn't it. People being dicks to each other left and right, a looming credible threat of mass extinctions thanks to global warming, and worst of all, there aren't even any dragons. Ugh.

 

[Thaluikhain]

My reason for coming to this conclusion is convoluted at best so please bear with me. My first thought was of Hitler. Now, I don't like Hitler. I think Hitler was a jerk, ingrate, [insert dirty word here]. But I can't deny all the things I have come to love that his existence has given birth to. The movies, the books, the games, the TV shows, the art, etc... Through his evil beauty was born and continues to be born. I believe it is the yin and yang of the world we live in. That within good there will be evil and within evil there will always be good. One cannot exist without the other.

You...what?

Sure, Hitler was bad, but without him we wouldn't have Hogan's Heroes?

My second theory revolves around the idea of creating the perfect world. Chances are if you were given all the power throughout the cosmos you would try to bring peace. No war, no death, no sickness, no hunger, yada yada yada, bing bang boom, and poof... there it is. But it's not that easy. Because there is one rule. You may not interfere in an obvious way. Meaning you can't magically spawn food. Why? Well, that's easy Jimmy because it doesn't happen in the world we live now. Or perhaps it does, who am I to say it doesn't, but the way in which occurs currently allows for reasonable doubt. Meaning there is no giant hand in the sky reaching down and making grass grow. In a manner that everyone around the world can agree that there is a hand in the sky that makes the grass grow.

The world we live in is perfect because there's no deity obviously making things better? What?

Anyway, if there was, presumably there always would have been, it would be part of the system, a normal natural force.

Let's start with ridding the world of sickness. Bacteria and viruses are the prime causes of sickness. As a solution you could get rid of the one's that cause harm. Problem is that getting rid of any any element causes more issues. Bacteria help produce a multitude of oxygen and nitrogen in the air. If you wish to get rid of the bacteria and alternative means of human survival needs to be created. Simply put, the world we live in is a complicated spider web. A very large one at that and even if you had the power to change everything without the knowledge on the "how to" or the "what to" it is useless. I haven't even started to delve into the complications of getting rid of death, war, and hunger. Even if you could stop death you have to then figure out how to deal with overpopulation. War cannot be stopped without changing human emotions. Getting rid of jealousy, anger, and hatred would be a start. But if you do that then those beings aren't human any more? Are they? My attention span is starting to wear and I'm starting to become annoyed just thinking about this. Point is that all scenarios of a perfect world lead to this one. At least that's how I feel.

Yes, a perfect world would require things to run very differently from the way things run now. This is not evidence that the world is perfect.

 

[blazearmoru]

Perfection can be subjective too... like having enough to eat would result in the thing being eaten's death. One person's perfect could be another person's imperfection. It's pretty difficult to determine better and worse without error as it is.

Good an evil are also subjective. Every religion has it's moral system set to piety to a subjective interpretation of their subjectively chosen holy book. The common denominator seems to be "conscious wellbeing & avoiding suffering" relative to good, while "conscious suffering and missing out on wellbeing" as bad (rewards/punishments) but that's also difficult as an event that brings one wellbeing could cause another suffering and to make things worse, we're only capable of making a simulation of the intended consequences, not the actual results. Then even when we do take other's wellbeing into consideration, our understanding of wellbeing is prone to bias due to what we are and what we experience. What are mammals with certain capability for conscious thought and subject to desires and fears different from other animals, or say things like rocks, but more importantly all our genes are different even though our common denominator is that we're humans. Our environment that teaches us is also different though the common denominator seems to be knowledge and the more religious a location, the less knowledge that place holds. All of these determine our values and a perfect world has everything to do with our values.

We determine perfection based on our values... the question is almost... nonsensical.

 

[Joccaren]

A perfect world can never exist. Everyone's view on what is perfect is different. One person's heaven is another person's hell.
You see pain and suffering as giving birth to perfection. Were you the one in pain, who was being forced to suffer, you sure as hell wouldn't think that.
My perfect world would be one like a videogame, where one respawns if they die, where there is opportunity for everyone if they try, where resources are infinite, and omnipresent systems keep the world in balance and check, stopping things like griefing of other 'players'. Where there's always another quest, something new and exciting to go do. Other people would utterly hate this idea.
As is, I hate this world and consider it far from perfect. Sure, there's beauty in some places. There's also corruption rife throughout it, and the strong preying on the weak, even in first world countries. Human greed and avarice runs much of the world, and causes pain to millions in its path. I cannot accept a world such as that as perfect.

Since no-one will ever agree on what a perfect world is, there can be no such thing as a perfect world. The best we can do is make the most of the world we live in, and try to make it a little better for everyone else before we go.

 

[2xDouble]

The imperfection makes its perfection. The ability to grow, to change, and to evolve is perfection itself; the very image of God.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

As an atheist, the world is not perfect or imperfect. It isn't even on a scale. It just is. Our suitability to the environment is like a puddle on the ground. The ground surface and the puddle fit perfectly together, but there's nothing magical about it. It just happened that way.

Also your notion that there is a balance of good and evil needs substantiation. I think there is less evil than good and that were there even more good it wouldn't be a problem.

I'm really not getting your argument actually.

EDIT: Also, I love the amount of pretentious shit that makes no sense that is being said in this thread without attempt at explanation or justification.

 

[bz316]

You all speak of perfection? Perhaps, you mean a world without sin? Let me show you a world without sin

http://youtu.be/ZUvlCtwt3nQ

 

[Korolev]

No, it's not perfect. In a perfect world, everyone would be able to fulfill their dreams and desires and gain what they want. I'm not asking for a world in which everyone is automatically given what they want (what's the fun in that, eh?) but a perfect world would be one in which everyone CAN get what they want through hard work, and we do not live in such a world. Vast swaths of humanity are doomed to poverty due to nothing more than the geographical location of their birth and the tyranny of past actions committed by previous generations. Many people are born with congenital defects that limit their ability to live the life they want or deserve. Luck and Random Chance rear their heads wherever you go.

I have a good life - a great life, when you compare it to the vast majority of people. I live in a nation that has not experienced war in many, many decades, whose military strength and geographic location make it an unlikely target for invasion. I live in a country which is wealthy, has a reasonably efficient government, good infrastructure and free health care and free education up till high-school - I am NOT responsible for ANY of that. I didn't build my nation. I didn't create free public education. I did NOTHING to build up the economic strength of my country. I simply had the good fortune of being born to parents who decided to come to Australia. I had the good fortune of being born to parents who didn't drink, who worked hard and who loved their children dearly. I had the good fortune of not being born with any mental deficits or congenital defects. I had the good fortune of being born with pale skin and a face that resembles that of a Caucasian well enough so that I do not endure any racial abuse.

I did not earn any of the above. I was born with it. Due to fortune and circumstance. I also happened to be born at the right time - had I been born 100 years ago my life would have been considerably worse.

Many people aren't born with the good fortune I have. If I had been born into poverty, into an alcoholic/drug abusing family, into a war-torn nation - how would I have fared? I do not know the answer to that question, but I can imagine how life would have turned out for me: Probably not well.

Given that we live in a world dictated by whims and chance and natural disasters and randomness, no we do no live in a perfect world - at least, not a world perfect for HUMANS. If there is a god or a deity that created this universe (and I doubt it), then it may be a perfect world from its perspective, but I can guarantee you that we humans have much to complain about. I mean, what "perfect" world for humans would allow people to be born with Huntington's or Beta-Thalassemia? What Perfect world would allow someone to be struck down with Autosomal Dominant Polycystic Kidney Disease?

To call this world fair would be to look at all the suffering children of the world - all the kids dying in Syria, all the kids in slavery and prostitution and to shake your head and say "they deserve it".

 

[Azwrath]

The imperfection makes its perfection. The ability to grow, to change, and to evolve is perfection itself; the very image of God.

But, isn't that statement false? I mean imperfection=flaw and perfection=flawless. How can flaw=flawless?

That being said, I understand what you are saying but i really don't think that perfection is the same thing as complex, interesting and beautiful.

As an atheist, the world is not perfect or imperfect.

As an atheist, i still can't figure out why you felt the need to make your belief part of your argument when it has nothing to do with it.

EDIT: Also, I love the amount of pretentious shit that makes no sense that is being said in this thread without attempt at explanation or justification.

Also i can't seem to figure out if you are being sarcastic or not here. Curse the internet.

 

[Moloch Sacrifice]

The fact that I am not sitting upon a throne made of skulls, drinking the blood of innocents as lava flows from the foot of my dais to burn the scarred wastes around me lets me know that we really aren't in a perfect world.

But... But I'm supposed to be the one on the throne of skulls! ...Can I at least be part of the throne?

As an atheist, the world is not perfect or imperfect.

As an atheist, i still can't figure out why you felt the need to make your belief part of your argument when it has nothing to do with it.

Presumably, because Azwrath does not believe the universe was created by a deity, it cannot be considered on the perfection/imperfection scale, as it was not designed with a purpose in mind. Instead, it is simply something that came to be.

 

[Azwrath]

Presumably, because Azwrath does not believe the universe was created by a deity, it cannot be considered on the perfection/imperfection scale, as it was not designed with a purpose in mind. Instead, it is simply something that came to be.

I figured as much, but the way he used it his argument was basically: The world is not perfect because it is as it is and this is true because i'm an atheist.

Atheism just means not believing in gods. There are atheistic religions who still believe that the world has purpose and , therefore, could one day become perfect. Believing that the world has no purpose is called being nihilistic not atheistic.

 

[Ranorak]

If earth was suppose to be a perfect world, why is most of it uninhabitable?

The world is not perfect, nothing is. But it's good enough to sustain life.

 

[Someone Depressing]

If Hitler didn't cause WWII (even if it was bound to happen because of The Great Depression) then in the end, we probably wouldn't have the internet.

So, if World War 2 didn't happen, would the world really be a better place, especially after the internet has bettered - and worsened - our normal lives?

And the answer to the question: No. As long as there is man, nothing will be perfect.
There's always the overhanging inevitability of all life being destroyed on Earth (the Sun's death, the moon getting just a tiny bit too far away, highly destructive war, volcanic eruptions... all of which are likely. Fuck, Mount Vesuvias is going to blow up again in about 60 years, and will take about 1 million lives with it. And there's nothing anyone can do about it).
There's always bad intention, bad people.
There's always the good things being ignored (I like this apple juice... but it hurts my teeth >.>).
And then there's a sleep-depraved idiot on the internet ranting about how everything sucks.

 

[TheSYLOH]

Under no definition of a perfect world, "perfectly imperfect" included, would depression and suicide exist.
Being constantly miserable due to a simple neurological imbalances, to the point where jumping off a building starts to look like a good idea means the world is imperfect to somebody.

You might say it's needed to have a comparison with joy.
But in that case this world is imperfect because not everyone has experienced this simple lack of a couple of neurotransmitters, thus they are thus unable to experience joy as much as a depressed/bi-polar person.
Also there are source of unhappiness that do not need a full on case of clinical depression.

Thus by the existence of suicide and depression I conclude we live in an imperfect world.

 

[Barbas]

Our little home is close enough to being perfect. It will teach us if we are willing to learn from its extensive experience. We have what we need here to survive and flourish. The greatest challenge we face is ourselves.

 

[Nathaniel Grey]

Once again we are starting to get a little off track here. The Hitler analogy was not made to say that the bad is always offset by the good(Hogan Heroes). That's far from what I'm trying to emote. I'm using the atrocities lead by Hitler to show the way in which "Good" can not exist without "Bad", and vice versa. It seems that many of the escapist think of humans as very deplorable creatures henceforth, how can this be a perfect world? That is what I'm arguing. That is why I say this world is "Imperfectly Perfect". I'm trying to have a debate about whether it is the shortcomings of this world that indeed make it a perfect one. I believe that the major problem here is that everyone is tackling this question from the point of view of a human. If you do, you will not be able to understand the question. I'm asking you to tackle the question from the point of view of a god. Many are solely looking at human problems and then applying that to why the world isn't perfect. This question is all encompassing. It involves bugs, bacteria, fungi, the atmosphere, plants, all walks of life. That is why I made the reference to getting rid of sickness in my initial post. I'm not asking whether humans themselves are perfect. That is a question for another day.