Is this Legal/Ethical?

[Tim_Buoy]

Depends on where you live. You might check further into the whole "curfew" thing. Where I live, while there is a curfew from midnight to 5:00 AM for drivers of that age, it is expressly stated that the curfew doesn't apply when going between school, work, or HOME or when accompanied by an appropriate person.

From what you have described, I think 2 years is a little harsh. Can you predict getting stuck behind a train or in a clogged intersection? 3 minutes is really not a lot of time when it comes to time margins. Especially with the 5 minute differences between everyone's clocks and watches.

Which is why any intelligent person would give themselves a buffer in time, instead of cutting it down to the last second

maybe he did give himself a buffer in time and something happened like an accident or slow light its happened to me several times

 

[Patrick Dare]

Being a 16 year old driver who just broke curfew for the first time tonight. It's not fair, but your neighbor was wrong. He should have left earlier, just like I should have. The cop was in the right, but that doesn't mean what he did was ethical. Same thing happened to my cousin except it involved a cop following him out of a bar and getting him with a DUI. You want to complain, talk to him. He got 3 months community service, a night in prison, and he's charged with a felony. All because he was .001 over the legal limit. My cousin was in the wrong legally. Morally, he was correct as he wasn't the least bit buzzed and he made it home before the cop arrested him.

Also, what area are you in where the curfew is 12:00? Mine's 11:00, and I think in most areas it's 11. If it is in your area, than your neighbor is a retard that doesn't deserve to drive.

Except your cousin is an irresponsible douche who likes to endanger the lives of others because he's too fucking cheap to take a cab and too fucking dumb to plan ahead

While I certainly don't condone driving while intoxicated you also have to understand that drugs affect different people different ways. Two people could drink the same amount in the same amount of time and one could be completely sober while the other one is falling all over the place. Personally I think the drunk driving laws take the focus away from the real problem which is irresponsible drivers which is what they should be prosecuted for, reckless driving.

 

[zehydra]

It was legal for the police man to fine him, but I don't know if it was ethical. It seems an awfully harsh punishment. It was not just, what the policeman did, that's for sure.

 

[allansianadventurer]

Maybe he left earlier but was driving slower than anticipated because there was a cop following him all the way home.

 

[Tim_Buoy]

WTF is this curfew?

They don't have that in England. That's beyond ridiculous. Setting a curfew for drivers just because of their age.

Agreed, more or less. I'm still astonished to hear about this curfew thing. What are the details and what sort of places have it? I thought these things mostly belonged in Orwell novels and nations that take inspiration from them.

most major american cities have some sort of curfew regulating how late a minor can be out at night normally set at midnight normally its used as a measure to reduce crime

 

[Scout Tactical]

I'm sorry, but this kind of thing sickens me.

This turns the law from sonething meaningful into an excuse to abuse people for trivialities, and in my opinion undermines confidence and respect for the institutions of law.

Laws as a concept exists to serve a purpose, not as an entity unto itself that should be tolerated just because.

It genuinely drives me nuts that people support these kind of things.

If it makes you feel better, it sickens me that people do not stand and support their laws steadfastly. I suppose we shouldn't prosecute someone if they just steal a stick of gum? What if they just kick their dog once? It's not animal abuse if they only kick him once, right? Of course, these are examples of things that show someone lacks respect for the law, and moral fiber on the whole. Once you start making exceptions for "trivialities", there is a slippery slope. This isn't the fictitious, absurd slippery slope politicians use to say that letting gays marry will result in nuclear war or some other relative impossibility, but a real, empirical one that we have seen.

For instance, speeding by five or six miles per hour is the norm. This means that the speed limit in all areas needs to be five miles below what it is expected to be. The government acknowledges that people are breaking the law, so they lower speed limits across the board to cut it out. I guess we could move the curfew back to 11:30, though.

Anyway, as proof that this affects our mentality, I'd like to point to anyone who has posted in support of the criminal here. Their perception of the law has been warped to the point where they think that breaking the law "only by a little" isn't breaking the law any more. It's sad to think their social values have decayed so much.

 

[TheLaofKazi]

I see Pirate Kitty set a precedent that a good number of people seemingly blindly followed...

Honestly. We all know what the law says, but the problem is, most laws don't leave room for context. Not everything is black and white.

I could understand more (but not for such a long license extension) if he was out messing around, but the kid was on his way home, and he got the ticket in his driveway. How absurd is that?

Why would you WANT him to be driving? He's 16!

You're lucky he didn't get tailed and then drive right through your goddamn house in the confusion.

Would you rather make him wait until he's 18 to drive? Sure, he will probably mature over those two years, but either way, he's still going to be just as inexperienced, and that is the biggest factor that determines someone's driving ability, it's not necessarily dependent on age beyond a certain point.

 

[Ambi]

SNIP

The driver broke the law.

The police officer did nothing wrong.

If you cannot understand that, best we stop the conversation here, least it turn into an argument.

Yes, the kid broke the law. Yes, the police officer did nothing wrong according to the law. But considering the degree to which he broke the law, why do you believe he deserved the punishment he was given?

If the officer decided to exercise personal judgement like police officers often do, and reasoned that letting the guy off wouldn't hurt anyone and that that punishment would be unfair in proportion to the offence because he was so incredibly close of being within the curfew, would you say that he did something wrong, and that it was unfair?

I think it was pretty mean and uptight of the police officer, unless the kid did something stupid to attract attention to himself. It reminds me of those teachers everyone hates and no-one respects, who enforce every petty rule to the extreme. "Top button undone? After school detention! No, it's the rules, unquestionable, holy rules. Don't tell me that's not fair! It doesn't matter if you have a valid excuse. The rules are there for a reason" as opposed to the teacher who lets little things slide when they don't matter and everyone gets along fine.

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

WTF is this curfew?

They don't have that in England. That's beyond ridiculous. Setting a curfew for drivers just because of their age.

Agreed, more or less. I'm still astonished to hear about this curfew thing. What are the details and what sort of places have it? I thought these things mostly belonged in Orwell novels and nations that take inspiration from them.

most major american cities have some sort of curfew regulating how late a minor can be out at night normally set at midnight normally its used as a measure to reduce crime

actually, it's usually done in the name of "protecting the children". which is about as moronic a concept as there is... goddamn this world could use a little more darwinian parenting.

 

[Cazza]

It's not fair. Cops should be there to help. Not waste there time fo that shit. They should have bent the rules and let them off.

 

[Vicarious Vangaurd]

Take it to court, get reduced by a year.

More like talk to the sheriff and he would probably throw the ticket out.

 

[The_Echo]

Kid: Got home at 12:03, three minutes past midnight, the curfew. This means that he probably left where he was before curfew, and didn't gauge the time it would take to drive home well enough. However, he was still going home.

Cop: Tails him because he's past curfew, then suspends his license for two years because he was out past curfew for three minutes. Even though he was going home.

If I were the cop, I would have given him a warning (especially if it's the first time) and say that he should be better about his timing in the future. I vote in favor of your neighbor in this case.

 

[Ameter]

SNIP

The driver broke the law.

The police officer did nothing wrong.

If you cannot understand that, best we stop the conversation here, least it turn into an argument.

Yes, the kid broke the law. Yes, the police officer did nothing wrong according to the law. But considering the degree to which he broke the law, why do you believe he deserved the punishment he was given?

If the officer decided to exercise personal judgement like police officers often do, and reasoned that letting the guy off wouldn't hurt anyone and that that punishment would be unfair in proportion to the offence because he was so incredibly close of being within the curfew, would you say that he did something wrong, and that it was unfair?

I think it was pretty mean and uptight of the police officer, unless the kid did something stupid to attract attention to himself. It reminds me of those teachers everyone hates and no-one respects, who enforce every petty rule to the extreme. "Top button undone? After school detention! No, it's the rules, unquestionable, holy rules. Don't tell me that's not fair! It doesn't matter if you have a valid excuse. The rules are there for a reason" as opposed to the teacher who lets little things slide when they don't matter and everyone gets along fine.

You're missing one key point: The cops don't set the punishment.

The cop either cites you or doesn't. He doesn't pick which punishment to slap you with.

 

[Seddi]

Because the world is a black and white place, and the laws set forth by your various authorities beyond interpretation of the letter, heaven forbid to apply them to individual circumstance. Honestly, the responses advocating nothing beyond that reasoning are deeply disturbing, and such thinking the roots of much greater evils than your "criminal"-by-three-minutes.

In any case, as I mentioned earlier, in the middle of the night, that officer could've been doing a dozen more useful things, like cruising high-risk areas or looking for drunk drivers. Y'know, actual threats to human life and property. Not tailing some kid just to see whether or not he noses into the driveway just before midnight.

 

[uchi mata]

It's some bullshit by some asshole of a cop, who is to afraid to go after real criminals so he fucks with kids to make himself feel better. You know your average cop.