Is this Pirating?

[Vegosiux]

Not a lawyer, so I'll just go about this from a "consumer" point of view.

Well it all depends on that nagging, eternal question, is it a product or a license? Publishers like to spin it to be whichever is more convenient to them at the given point, which is why we need to whack them with the Clue-bat 9001?[footnote]For more information call 1-500-GETACLUE[/footnote] now and then.

But basically, if it's a license, and you paid for such license, the EULA cannot force you to comply with anything that contradicts your local jurisdiction's legislation. For example, if the EULA had an entry "Upon installation of this game, you must shoot a puppy", you can click "I AGREE" without having to actually shoot a puppy. But you paid for your license, so getting a fresh copy is just renewing what you already paid for.

If it's a product, then what you've done is illegal, because if a product breaks, you either take it back for a refund or replacement, or buy a new one; you don't go and acquire a new one outside those channels.

So this is what it boils down to: Product or license?

 

[FFP2]

I wouldn't consider it pirating. Shit, I downloaded a copy of Final Fantasy X-2 because I played that game way too much and it was scratched beyond repair. So no, it's not pirating in my eyes. Unless you seeded it to others that may not have been in the same situation you were in.

 

[Brandon237]

Hmmm... So the fuck what if it is? I am not advocating conventional piracy by any means with this statement, so take it in context, m'kay?
That should explain everything, you paid for the licence, if you got into legal trouble after having paid for the licence and ensuring you didn't seed on the torrent, you know the people getting you into said legal trouble are fools with nothing better to do than harass a paying customer. What you did in no way affects their profits or anything, and you are using their product after having paid for it (As you should). It is digital information, you bought the licence, enjoy at your leisure, especially if you are anywhere with somewhat sane local laws.

 

[prowll]

I think it's probably a good idea to point out here that none of us are lawyers, which really is where you're going to get in trouble. Personally, you bought a copy of the game, got a license to play it, and by doing so, paid the producers their due share. No harm, no foul.

 

[Raven_Operative]

In Canada, copying a game (or piece of software) you own for backup purposes is fine as long as you owned the game first.

I don't think its piracy.

 

[Platypus540]

Technically yes, but since you already bought the game I see nothing even remotely immoral about that.

 

[Subscriptism]

It's not morally wrong but it is pirating.

How is it pirating if you own a license to use the content?

I won't claim to be an expert. But as far as I see it you have a license to use it on their terms and downloading a copy that doesn't have the restrictions they impose as part of their terms makes it outside the licence.

 

[The_Echo]

I think it is considered piracy since it's a second copy that you didn't pay for.

Though, I think it's morally in the clear.

 

[DaKiller]

My golden rule is: if you own or owned the game at some point, then there's no mark against you for downloading it.

 

[Xdeser2]

I'm almost amused at the piracy threads. When people go "Well, MORALLY, it isn't" what's next "Was I speeding" "Well, MORALLY you weren't speeding"? It's a legal thing not how one feels about it.

No, it's not piracy.
You already own a legitimate copy (or license) so which way you enjoy the game is irrelevant.

Actually, licenses are rarely that open. Usually they are a tad more restrictive, as in they give you the right to use the software through the medium it came through (more or less) - be it disks, Steam or something else. You are rarely given a blank license to get X in whatever way you please.

Technically it could be considered as making a backup.

No, not really. Technically, you are supposed to do the backup. Also, the backup is supposed to be...you know a backup - in case your original copy stops working, or is missing etc.

If you download a game you own but don't seed, how 'bout that?

As I said before, that's murky at best. And using torrents it's improbable.

Legally, yes, that is copyright infringement ("piracy") in most jurisdictions. This is because you have made a copy of the file without authorisation or license from the rightsholder. I'm surprised that so many people in this thread think that this isn't the case; it should be obvious that copyright infringement includes making a copy of something.

OK, while true, I just want to add something to illustrate how weird software laws are. Software licenses by definition do allow you to make copies. In fact you are required to. You would need to install the game which makes a copy of some files on your hard disk (assuming the software comes on removable media) and even then, when you launch it, you get a copy of other data in memory. Otherwise, the software cannot work.

As I said, weird.

Considering how you are not handing out copies to other people and especially not making a profit on the activity I would not call it piracy.

Actually, that's exactly how torrents work - you hand out copies to other people.

Your second example, having a digital copy of a game you own, is AFAIK completely legal. You are allowed to have a digital backup of something you've already paid for.

You are allowed to make a backup copy. But even that is not always the case - as I said, I'm pretty sure Nintendo doesn't allow it.

You already payed the asking price?

Yes? Then, nope, its not what id consider pirating

Oh...wait. Sorry, everybody I quoted - forget what I said. When you're wandering about something legally, just ask what Xdeser2 considers it to be.

Judge: So what are the charges?
Prosecution: Well, we found this forum post by Xdeser2 that states that he considers the defendant was wrong.

There was a question

I answered

Sorry I didnt do it up to your expectations

You dont have to be an Ass about it -___-

 

[Zyst]

For reference I need to clarify that I don't feel concerned about this legally, I simply wished the opinion of my fellow Escapists in the issue. I live in Mexico and piracy is so widespread here that I might be the most piracy free person I know personally.

Also I use a modified Vuze so it never uploads, literally not ever. The only upload action which goes on are requests and that amounts to less than 1kb/s. That's asshole-ish from the torrent standpoint but that's besides the point.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Snip!

This is a tricky one. Law dictates that you're allowed to emulate software you own. If you have an SNES and a copy of, say, Super Mario World, you're free to download ZSNES and a Super Mario World ROM.

You own Skyrim. It's in your Steam library. Yet you download a cracked version. I don't see any serious issue here, but that's just me. You'd have to take it up with one of your local officials to find out. Hire a copyrights attorney for one hour and quiz the shit out of him or her. You'll probably earn a fairly twisty and case-by-case answer.

 

[tkioz]

Legally it's pirating, morally it's not.

 

[Zyst]

Salute Escapists!

Anyhow, I'll get straight to the point. I own and bought Skyrim and all its DLC (steam owned) however some mods have slight issues with Steam support and overall I didn't want to go through the headache of fixing that so I downloaded through torrent the game and the DLC I owned which is all of it. Then I happily installed the stuff I desired and it all works perfectly.

However, is this pirating? I do own the game itself so to say but you might also argue I only own a license available through steam and not the game per-se.

What are your thoughts on this particular kind of 'piracy'? This might also apply to, for example owning your old Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time cartridge but not owning a N64 anymore, so you DL a ROM. Is that pirating? You still own and have the cartridge. Where does one draw the line?

Thanks for all and any input!

I'm surprised you went to all that trouble of re-downloading the game and DLC.

A simply 20MB crack dropped into the game folder strips out all that annoying Steam garbage and you're gaming as happy as can be with 9 gigs of hard drive space saved.

That's always been the thing that makes any justification for Piracy invalid. You can crack legally purchased games.

I just deleted the Steam copy because of that. I wasn't sure if the Skyrim downloaded from Steam would be compatible with the cracks, etc... so I decided to just not go through the uncertainty and get the whole package. But yeah that's a good idea.

 

[LetalisK]

Spoiler: Indeed, you are correct - you can set the speed to 0

Indeed, you are correct - you can set the speed to 0

Erm...if you set that to 0, you're accomplishing the exact opposite of what you'd want to do if you wanted to limit your uploading. In this case, 0 actually means "go hog wild uploading". Hence the 0=unlimited. I believe the best way to limit your uploading would be to limit the slots(last option) to 0.

 

[Olas]

Sorry to be that guy OP, but it's 'salut' not 'salute'.

I think legally it's piracy, but what you're doing won't deprive anyone of a sale so I don't see what the harm is. Still, if you're going to do it and you get caught by one of those trackers I doubt they'll care that you've already bought the game.

 

[Something Amyss]

I'm almost amused at the piracy threads. When people go "Well, MORALLY, it isn't" what's next "Was I speeding" "Well, MORALLY you weren't speeding"? It's a legal thing not how one feels about it.

These threads usually are thinly veiled attempts to justify one's actions. Therefore, despite the obvious answer of "yes" to "is this piracy?" it's practically expected to tack on the rest. The mental gymnastics used to torture logic are also kind of interesting.

This happens everywhere, though. I mean, the speeding example, people come up with tons of excuses as to why it's okay to speed in their own instances.

Well the definition of piracy (in these circumstances) is possessing software for which you don't own a relevant license.

Steam's license is pretty specific, as are most licenses and EULAs. You don't own a license to the game in every format, which should end this line of thought right here.

 

[TotalerKrieger]

If you are that concerned about it, just set your upload speed to 0. My ISP throttles all torrent-related uploading to virtually nothing, but I have never had a problem with DLing.

The likelihood of ever facing legal consequences for piracy is virtually zero, but if you were somehow picked out by some copyright group, I would say you have a leg to stand on, particularily if you do not upload any data.