Is this Racist?
- Thread starter Helmholtz Watson
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I find it intensely humorous when people don't acknowledge that certain realities exist or have never existed before. Guess what? There is a Chinese fat Buddha. Not Siddartha Gautuma the original Buddha, but another one. Also....Chinese people have worn/do still wear coolie hats. This was not a hat shape made up by racist whitey, they exist and asians wore/wear them. And as for Chinese laundry, they exist! In fact it was rather common for any laundry shop in big cities (especially on the west coast) to be run by asians.
Would it be offensive to have a chinese person depicted working on a railroad? Of course not because that's what they actually did. Now if the asians were depicted with buck teeth and pee-peeing in a coke, that would be complaint worthy.....
Does racism exist? Yeah, but nowhere to the degree it did here in America in the past, and most instances of "racism" aren't intended to hurt or put down other races. But try telling that to bandwagon, knee-jerk reactionary whiners (many of them white), that ANY depiction of race that isn't wholly positive is racist and hurtful. Bullshit.
Would it be offensive to have a chinese person depicted working on a railroad? Of course not because that's what they actually did. Now if the asians were depicted with buck teeth and pee-peeing in a coke, that would be complaint worthy.....
Does racism exist? Yeah, but nowhere to the degree it did here in America in the past, and most instances of "racism" aren't intended to hurt or put down other races. But try telling that to bandwagon, knee-jerk reactionary whiners (many of them white), that ANY depiction of race that isn't wholly positive is racist and hurtful. Bullshit.
More or less.intheweeds said:
I'd add, though, that being persecuted over something gives you only a limited insight into someone else being persecuted over something else, which tends to be inconvenient for some people to remember.
While Gautama Buddha did starve himself and was skinny, he's not the only Buddha.Furioso said:
OT: As a Chinese I don't find any of the items offensive, especially not the necklace
Hmmm, lets see. As a straight, young white guy I am told that I am a rapist and that women need to fear me, that I am racist and should not be included in racial talks because I am white (remember, only the white man is racist and never experiences it themselves). I am held to a higher standard since it's a forgone conclusion that I am "The Man" and will just walk into a position of power by virtue of my skin colour.intheweeds said:
If 52% of the population of the earth are women, and the remaining 48% of males are divided up amongs all the races of the world....how the fuck am I not a minority?
While some people do just live to cry foul at everything under the sun, other people just have feelings. Feelings can be hurt. It's not logical, it's not rational, it's emotional and can't be reasoned. Never mind racism, everybody has their things that can hurt them and when commented on or made fun of they feel bad. Condemning somebody for having their feelings hurt is just as bad as crying foul at something because you think it's not PC.
This. It's pretty frustrating watching heterosexual white males tell everyone else that they should stop being bothered by racism, sexism, etc.intheweeds said:
That aid, as far as I can tell, these shirts are just trying to follow the "old-school" trend, which is why they're using such outdated terms and imagery. They were obviously unwisely designed, but it's like Yahtzee said about Capcom---they're not bad people, they're just idiots.
I bolded the part you clearly missed there. No one said you can't be part of the discussion. And when the discussion is 'how white males are persecuted' you can start talking about what offends you too. What you can't comment on is whether or not something is offensive to someone else. You are not black, you cannot claim something 'isn't offensive to blacks'. You aren't asian so you cannot claim something 'isn't offensive to asians'. I'm a woman and so I cannot tell you what is offensive to white males. You simply cannot relate. Honestly, why can't you see that?JaredXE said:
"Oriental is an outdated term"... the fuck?
Just because a term is old doesn't make it racist. Besides, now that Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi people refer to themselves as asian, how are we supposed to differentiate between them and people of, for example, Chinese or Japanese descent? They're clearly very different (and admittedly broad) ethnic groups. I don't think referring to people as oriental asians does anything other than place their ethnic origins to a smaller group of countries.
Just because a term is old doesn't make it racist. Besides, now that Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi people refer to themselves as asian, how are we supposed to differentiate between them and people of, for example, Chinese or Japanese descent? They're clearly very different (and admittedly broad) ethnic groups. I don't think referring to people as oriental asians does anything other than place their ethnic origins to a smaller group of countries.
Actually, I just got back from 2 months of travelling in south-east Asia today (true story), and from what I gather the skinny and fat Buddha are two different people. It gets a little metaphysical though, as they are considered different aspects of the same person (holy trinity style I guess), but nevertheless, they are separate and equally legitimate images. In Thailand and Laos, it is much more common to see statues of the thin Buddha, but fat ones do exist in some temples, and I think are worshipped more by some sects of Buddhism and less by others.Furioso said:
I was told this in my improv club in college:
"When depicting a race that is not your own, expect hostility. The easiest thing to do is have race not be involved at all. With that said, anything can be funny if you know how to do it properly."
Race depiction is a touchy subject because it is how one person defines numerous people withen a single stereotype. I'm getting tired of straight young white males saying that things aren't offensive when they cannot fathom what it is like to be discriminated against. You're not black, so blackface doesn't offend you; you're not Asian, so chinese railroad workers don't offend you; you're not Jewish, so Shylock characters don't offend you; etc.etc. It's not about having thin skin; it's about fear of a racist culture.
OT: I don't really know if I would call it racist. If a Chinese company made any of them, there would probably be no controversy. I think that because the company is American and displays out of date characicatures that have been used in old racist imagery, people are pulling the race card.
"When depicting a race that is not your own, expect hostility. The easiest thing to do is have race not be involved at all. With that said, anything can be funny if you know how to do it properly."
Race depiction is a touchy subject because it is how one person defines numerous people withen a single stereotype. I'm getting tired of straight young white males saying that things aren't offensive when they cannot fathom what it is like to be discriminated against. You're not black, so blackface doesn't offend you; you're not Asian, so chinese railroad workers don't offend you; you're not Jewish, so Shylock characters don't offend you; etc.etc. It's not about having thin skin; it's about fear of a racist culture.
OT: I don't really know if I would call it racist. If a Chinese company made any of them, there would probably be no controversy. I think that because the company is American and displays out of date characicatures that have been used in old racist imagery, people are pulling the race card.
''We're all living in America, coca-cola, wonderbra!''
Love that Rammstein song.
I'm wondering if I 'should' be offended by stereotypes, like every Scotsman wears a kilt, is ginger, and liable to headbutt anyone who looks at them twice. Really I don't care or find it remotely offensive, just like most Asians wouldn't consider that necklace offensive. Racism has to be about more than showing an image, outdated or not - true racism should be a direct and detremental comment about a specific race of people. So if the little Asian woman was riding a scooter with 4 weeks shopping on the back and 3 kids hanging off the handlebars, then that might be considered racist. Some people need to wind their necks back in - especially when it's jewelry and T-shirts, these things are supposed to be light hearted - getting sick of listening to people who are offended because that's what they think they should be offended by.
The problem with political correctness, is that people who don't voice an opinion (i.e. the majority of people) don't find it offensive. If 0.1% of people find that necklace offensive, then maybe we should start caring about the 99.9% who didn't comment, people who might even like the necklace, or T-shirt, or whatever. We pay too much attention to negative people... like when news shows talk to 'the man in the street' - well the man in the street on a weekday afternoon is most likely a total idiot. The silent majority can do with speaking up, and call bullshit on all this.
Love that Rammstein song.
I'm wondering if I 'should' be offended by stereotypes, like every Scotsman wears a kilt, is ginger, and liable to headbutt anyone who looks at them twice. Really I don't care or find it remotely offensive, just like most Asians wouldn't consider that necklace offensive. Racism has to be about more than showing an image, outdated or not - true racism should be a direct and detremental comment about a specific race of people. So if the little Asian woman was riding a scooter with 4 weeks shopping on the back and 3 kids hanging off the handlebars, then that might be considered racist. Some people need to wind their necks back in - especially when it's jewelry and T-shirts, these things are supposed to be light hearted - getting sick of listening to people who are offended because that's what they think they should be offended by.
The problem with political correctness, is that people who don't voice an opinion (i.e. the majority of people) don't find it offensive. If 0.1% of people find that necklace offensive, then maybe we should start caring about the 99.9% who didn't comment, people who might even like the necklace, or T-shirt, or whatever. We pay too much attention to negative people... like when news shows talk to 'the man in the street' - well the man in the street on a weekday afternoon is most likely a total idiot. The silent majority can do with speaking up, and call bullshit on all this.
As far as I can see, it's just stereotypical. Stereotypes aren't racist in my mind, as to be racist makes it sounds like it has intent to insult. Some Chinese people are bound to wear the headgear, and the geisha-necklace is as racist as a European knight on a necklace. It's not.
Now, if the shirts had the Chinese characters on them worshipping an American car or something to mock, then yes it would be racist.
Steve Hughes is a comedian, not a philosophy.
Now, if the shirts had the Chinese characters on them worshipping an American car or something to mock, then yes it would be racist.
This clip needs to die. I see it on every thread about a similar topic and every single time people worship it as if it has all the answers. It's a convenient one-size-fits-all retort. Being offended isn't the crux of it all - intent to offend is also an issue. If I say "I am a ****" no-one could be offended, and at most could politely request me not to say it around them. If I turned around and called someone a ****, even if they've heard the word a millions times before my objective of insulting them will get them riled alone. This is enough for me to say I simply don't agree with the man.brunothepig said:
Steve Hughes is a comedian, not a philosophy.