It doesn't matter HOW you achieve something in a game.

[dyre]

I'd take it a step further and say your achievements in a game don't matter. Period. They're just shiny badges to make you feel nice.

Which is exactly why they matter.
Feelings nice matters.
If that doesn't matter I don't know what does.

Agreed. People get too hung up on 'SKINNER BOX IS EVIL!!11!!1!' to realise... actually, they're a good thing.

When EC did it, they were referring to it, as always, in a purely games-as-art context. Which makes sense - nothing cheapens an overall experience like an achievement popping up at the end - but often they can be really fun.

Which is what some games are for.

Achievements aren't really Skinner Box, unless they're rewarded several times for the same repeated action

 

[Pyro Paul]

I'd take it a step further and say your achievements in a game don't matter. Period. They're just shiny badges to make you feel nice.

Which is exactly why they matter.
Feelings nice matters.
If that doesn't matter I don't know what does.

OT: I have to agree, if you somehow outsmart the game, all the more win for you.
Outright using cheatcodes is different though.

except his 'feeling nice' is an empty emotion which is based not on the fact of accomplishment but because of a non-important peice of notiriaty that is obtained through improper means.

it could be definitive sign of manic condition...


there is a diffrence between outsmarting a game and exploiting a vague system of rules in order to gain undue awards and notiriaty.

 

[rokkolpo]

I'd take it a step further and say your achievements in a game don't matter. Period. They're just shiny badges to make you feel nice.

Which is exactly why they matter.
Feelings nice matters.
If that doesn't matter I don't know what does.

OT: I have to agree, if you somehow outsmart the game, all the more win for you.

hmm, I guess "matter" is a bit of a vague term. I mean, they're really nothing to be proud of, or to bother thinking about. It's like the smiley face stickers grade school teachers hand out...to everyone in the class.

There are definitely some achievements/stickers you can be proud about.
Sure getting to ''world 4 level 2'' isn't exactly spectacular.
But managing to complete the game using only the knife is something to be proud of in my book.

That takes skill and patience.
And I will give you a nice big sticker for it!
(with a catchphrase below)

 

[Richardplex]

I'd take it a step further and say your achievements in a game don't matter. Period. They're just shiny badges to make you feel nice.

Which is exactly why they matter.
Feelings nice matters.
If that doesn't matter I don't know what does.

Agreed. People get too hung up on 'SKINNER BOX IS EVIL!!11!!1!' to realise... actually, they're a good thing.

When EC did it, they were referring to it, as always, in a purely games-as-art context. Which makes sense - nothing cheapens an overall experience like an achievement popping up at the end - but often they can be really fun.

Which is what some games are for.

Achievements aren't really Skinner Box, unless they're rewarded several times for the same repeated action

Even then they can be useful, the ones in Mass Effect 2 about combining Biotic effects actually made start comboing mine and my team mates moves, making me a better player (I think).

OT: I'm going with the whole the journey thing. As an RPer, how I go about something is defined by my character. And for non RP games, if I do something cheaply, I'll feel dissatisfied. Doing it the right and hard way yields greater satisfaction. But, each to their own SP experience.

On MP however, very bad line of thinking. Take CoD for example: It doesn't matter how I get kills, as long as I achieve them *cranks out noob tube*. For online playing, that line of thinking makes bad players and ruins the experience for everyone.

 

[dimensional]

So youre saying the end justifies the means when playing a game?

While I would agree you can play the game anyway you want on single player or co-op etc as long as everyones in the know cheats/hacks/exploits etc I would disagree about this way of thinking online or against strangers mainly because it ruins the spirit of the game and as for competition well obviously exploits are used because people want to win and if the game allows you to do something unfair no reason you cant try and abuse it to your advantage although a seriously broken game is unlikely to be used for competitive purposes anyway.

 

[dyre]

I'd take it a step further and say your achievements in a game don't matter. Period. They're just shiny badges to make you feel nice.

Which is exactly why they matter.
Feelings nice matters.
If that doesn't matter I don't know what does.

OT: I have to agree, if you somehow outsmart the game, all the more win for you.

hmm, I guess "matter" is a bit of a vague term. I mean, they're really nothing to be proud of, or to bother thinking about. It's like the smiley face stickers grade school teachers hand out...to everyone in the class.

There are definitely some achievements/stickers you can be proud about.
Sure getting to ''world 4 level 2'' isn't exactly spectacular.
But managing to complete the game using only the knife is something to be proud of in my book.

That takes skill and patience.
And I will give you a nice big sticker for it!
(with a catchphrase below)

I guess that could be impressive...maybe... >_>

 

[rokkolpo]

I'd take it a step further and say your achievements in a game don't matter. Period. They're just shiny badges to make you feel nice.

Which is exactly why they matter.
Feelings nice matters.
If that doesn't matter I don't know what does.

OT: I have to agree, if you somehow outsmart the game, all the more win for you.
Outright using cheatcodes is different though.

except his 'feeling nice' is an empty emotion which is based not on the fact of accomplishment but because of a non-important peice of notiriaty that is obtained through improper means.

it could be definitive sign of manic condition...


there is a diffrence between outsmarting a game and exploiting a vague system of rules in order to gain undue awards and notiriaty.

''improper means''
That in itself is very vague, I think it's more like something that should be viewed situation by situation.
And that ''difference'' you speak of has an even vague-er line.

 

[Jazzeki]

Sure, to "some" people it doesnt matter how you do it as long shit gets done.

I remember how a friend of mine was soooo proud for defeating Black Anima in FFX. So I asked him how he did it because Anima kept raping me mercylessly.
He looks at me, shrugged and says "I called Yojimbo and he killed her with his instant."

Thats a moment when I just go "Wtf?" mode. Defeating a Black Aeon using Yojimbo.. thats bordering hard cheating if you ask me, and takes away the purpose of of optional bosses.

There are plenty of bosses in the Final Fantasy series that are immune to Death spells and effects. If they didn't want Yojimbo to be an option for the Dark Aeons, they really should have made them immune.

That said, Final Fantasy bosses are rarely a matter of strategy, and beating them usually just requires some key technique or enough level-grinding.

yojimbo ignores even death imunity your point is kinda moot.
and yes it's an option even a valid one. doesn't mean it doesn't matter how you do it. i'd never get any worthwhille satisfaction from doing it with yojimbo but doing it "right" i would. so it matters. at least to me. openions are not facts. nothing worthwhille to discuss here at best this is about personal values.

 

[warthoggunner]

A favorite of mine is to use cars and vehicles to just smash into things and kill enemys
where normaly I'm supposed to fight my way through on foot (works in so many different games)

 

[Okysho]

For example, when playing Halo 3 Legendary co-op, I just stood behind and acted as the spawn guy, while my friend ran ahead and fought. I got the legendary achievment afterwards, even though I did hardly any work.

Fine, it's your game, but with this line of thinking you'll never actually get the same level of satisfaction that you get by beating a game legitimately.

Also, how do you plan on beating the game on Legendary solo? Sure, there's not an achievement for it, but the game still keeps track of what levels you have beaten on what difficulty and whether you had help or not. Oh, yeah, and I'll be impressed when you beat Reach on Mythic difficulty using nothing but a plasma pistol and bubble gum.

EDIT: By the way, in most games it is the journey that matters, not the ending. If you play games just to see the ending or just to hear that "baboop!" sound of an achievement, then

I'm with you all the way HOW you do it is what makes games so special. That's like saying "I watched a movie" when all you did was turn on the TV and and play the movie while you... I dunno went for a bike ride or something.

Players craft their own experiences in a game and that's what makes them so different. Some people beat Gannon in TP with the fishing rod, it's much different from doing a jump attack at the start of the fight, not knowing there was a "chance" option and suddenly winding up in an epic power struggle 2 seconds at the start of the battle.

 

[JediMB]

yojimbo ignores even death imunity your point is kinda moot.

It really isn't. The developers made a conscious decision to break the tradition they'd established with Odin when they designed Yojimbo. Bosses in Final Fantasy VII, for example, could not be killed with Odin's Zantetsuken (as he used the Gungnir against enemies with death immunity).

It would have been maybe half an hour of work for the programmers to make the Dark Aeons immune to Zanmato, but they decided to stick with the idea that he should be able to kill absolutely anything in the game with that attack.

 

[mental_looney]

True but it always feels better if it wasn't gained via cheating but that's just my opinion

 

[Neverhoodian]

I don't have a problem with players "working the system" if it's a single player game or co-op against AI opponents.

What I do have a problem with is if they disrupt the enjoyment of other players in a multiplayer game to get their precious 'cheevos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlxZKUWXxiU
(won't let me embed this video)

Even worse are people who use aimbots/wallhacks/speedhacks or any other cheating methods in multiplayer.

 

[Lullabye]

Discussion value of this topic is what exactly?

*sigh*

I disagree. I mean, if it didn't matter how at all then why not simply hack/cheat in every game? No, I say that if you want to have any sense of accomplishment in a game then you must be able to take a certain degree of pride in what your doing. That being said, there is a difference between strategy and abusing a glitch or the like. I mean, sure if you're grinding and need to lvl up quickly and you dislike the tedium of it all, the go right ahead and abuse an exp glitch or however the leveling system works( think oblivion).
Then there is the other side of the coin, fighting games/moba's. There is a meta in most of these games and abusing them to win basically makes you look like a douchbag and from personal experience it feels empty. There is no sense of accomplishment if you beat some guy by using the most broken attack in a game over and over and over.....Of course, I'm not speaking for everyone. I'm sure some people do get the satisfaction of doing just that. But in my opinion:

 

[CRRPGMykael]

So,you started this thread to convince yourself that it doesn't matter?Yes,IT DOES MATTER HOW YOU ACHIEVE SOMETHING.THAT'S WHY IT'S CALLED AN 'ACHIEVEMENT'.But ohwell,who am I to get uppity,90% of my Team Fortress 2 achievements are done with people helping me with them on purpose or in an achievement map with bots that spawn infinintely,etc.
But yeah,bottom line:it does matter.Unless it's something that you did that outsmarted the game itself,like in [PROTOTYPE] or something.

 

[Saelune]

Maybe if you want to get it done, but there is various levels of prestige to how you do it. For example, its more impressive to beat a game on hard than easy, faster than slower, thoroughly than just the important bits, e.t.c.

Glitches, hacks, and cheats usually gain the lowest, or add noterity I guess.
Getting 10th Prestige in MW2 is not that prestigous if you hacked to do it.

 

[TheKruzdawg]

I agree with OP. I always get yelled at for knifing in MW2. Does it matter that I find killing everyone by stabbing them in the back fun?

I get that sometimes when I play Black Ops. It's a legit way of killing someone! I especially get it when I occasionally play the Sticks and Stones wager matches with my friends. They won't hate me for it but they'd rather I didn't do it. Knifing is actually one way that I get a lot of my kills. I'm proud of it and it means I didn't have to die that time.

 

[Blunderboy]

Discussion value of this topic is what exactly?

*sigh*

I disagree. I mean, if it didn't matter how at all then why not simply hack/cheat in every game? No, I say that if you want to have any sense of accomplishment in a game then you must be able to take a certain degree of pride in what your doing. That being said, there is a difference between strategy and abusing a glitch or the like. I mean, sure if you're grinding and need to lvl up quickly and you dislike the tedium of it all, the go right ahead and abuse an exp glitch or however the leveling system works( think oblivion).
Then there is the other side of the coin, fighting games/moba's. There is a meta in most of these games and abusing them to win basically makes you look like a douchbag and from personal experience it feels empty. There is no sense of accomplishment if you beat some guy by using the most broken attack in a game over and over and over.....Of course, I'm not speaking for everyone. I'm sure some people do get the satisfaction of doing just that. But in my opinion:

Not sure you meant to quote me.

Despite my previous post, I do agree with you at some level. If it doesn't matter, then you might as well cheat. But I do think that achieving an objective anyway the game mechanics allow you to should be equally valid.

 

[DustyDrB]

Discussion value of this topic is what exactly?

*sigh*

I disagree. I mean, if it didn't matter how at all then why not simply hack/cheat in every game? No, I say that if you want to have any sense of accomplishment in a game then you must be able to take a certain degree of pride in what your doing. That being said, there is a difference between strategy and abusing a glitch or the like. I mean, sure if you're grinding and need to lvl up quickly and you dislike the tedium of it all, the go right ahead and abuse an exp glitch or however the leveling system works( think oblivion).
Then there is the other side of the coin, fighting games/moba's. There is a meta in most of these games and abusing them to win basically makes you look like a douchbag and from personal experience it feels empty. There is no sense of accomplishment if you beat some guy by using the most broken attack in a game over and over and over.....Of course, I'm not speaking for everyone. I'm sure some people do get the satisfaction of doing just that. But in my opinion:

Not sure you meant to quote me.

Despite my previous post, I do agree with you at some level. If it doesn't matter, then you might as well cheat. But I do think that achieving an objective anyway the game mechanics allow you to should be equally valid.

He's probably quoting you because there doesn't need to be a question for there to be discussion value. And we can have an intelligent discussion about nearly anything.