It feels like people around my age are falling through the cracks of society

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RhombusHatesYou

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Sutter Cane said:
As someone who is currently 20 and looking to finish up his college degree in the next couple of years, it feels like people around my agre are really ending up on the short end of society's stick. I mean based on what I'm hearing, it really feels like college degrees are barely worth the paper they're printed on nowadays, an that unless you are looking to go into certain very-specific fields, you're just going to end up back at Walmart indefinitely anyway.
Part of the problem is called 'educational inflation'... the long and the short of which basically says the more people who have a degree the less value that degree has and becomes problematic when the employment opportunities normally associated with the degree are insufficient to absorb the majority of graduates.

In Australia the textbook example of this is a Law Degree. Australian universities are pumping out so many Law graduates that a majority of them will not find work anywhere within the Legal field... and the ones who went into Law thinking they'd be making Mad Cash are laughed at by the people they went to high school with that became tradespeople and are now making cash by the fistful.
 

Fatboy_41

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RhombusHatesYou said:
There is one group of degrees that service professions that are always in demand - Engineering degrees. Never enough Engineers to go around, especially in the more traditional areas of Engineering, such as Mechanical, Electrical and Civil Engineering. Of course, those are professions where you will encounter dirt, grime and tradies on a regular basis. ;)
Oh, god yes. If you're one of those "engineering" fellas, you'll want to avoid us dirty tradies like the plague. ;)

Absolutely agree with you though. Getting into an apprenticeship and surviving the first 2 years is hard. I was very lucky with mine. I met my boss when he came over to my old mans place looking at buying a motorcycle to rebuild. Random chit-chat led to him mentioning he was "thinking" of gettin an apprentice and that I was "thinking" of an apprenticeship. He called me 2 days later and asked if I wanted to start on the Monday. :)

These days, most employers won't even look at you without a pre-voc course which is essentially your first few modules of trade school and some time of the tools getting job experience. This is usually done unpaid too, and even then there is no promise you'll land an apprenticeship. As you say, it has gotten better lately with govenment incentives to both employers and apprentices. Tool allowances and bonuses from the government definitely make it easier on the first and second year apprentices. During my first year, I was on $6.50 an hour. It's very hard to live on that. And unfortunately, I was 1 year before the bonuses got raising significantly so I missed out on that too.
 

tehroc

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Sutter Cane said:
As someone who is currently 20 and looking to finish up his college degree in the next couple of years, it feels like people around my agre are really ending up on the short end of society's stick. I mean based on what I'm hearing, it really feels like college degrees are barely worth the paper they're printed on nowadays,
College degrees under a masters are worthless. The whole point of college is just to make connections. It's not just your generation, every gen has gone through those periods.
 

Sonic Doctor

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nexus said:
Same old story.

If you have problems then you're just "complaining" and boy you should be lucky you weren't in your great-grandparents generation, because they had it bad!

Besides, stop trying to get a 1% job, you should be getting a trade.. that's your problem you're just a snob!

(Despite the fact blue-collar/labor jobs are in very short supply too.)

In short, it's not society's problem, it is *your* problem.. so just go to a therapist and get dosed with high-potency psychotropic medication. In other words, be quiet so no one ever acknowledges the problem. Haven't you heard, the stock market is doing awesome!! So shut your face and know your place!
I seriously hope you are joking, because that is bad advice.

The therapist part is okay, because it does seem like the OP needs someone to lift him up, but not because he needs to face that it is his fault.

It is not the OP's fault.

If you really think it is his fault then you really have never faced a recently graduated from college with no field experience situation.

It is a real thing that degrees mean shit about getting a job these days. Back in the day(oh yes I used that phrase), degree's were the proverbial golden ticket. Employers then would look at a fresh college graduate and say, "Look at this person with all that knowledge and training fresh in his mind." They would hire the college grad right off the bat. It didn't matter if the other applicants had experience working in a previous similar job, if they didn't have the degree, they didn't get the job.

Fast forward decades to now. Employers look at a fresh college grad and say, "Aaaannnd, I'm suppose to be impressed? Have you held a job exactly like this one for at least 3 to 5 years? No? NEXT!"

College degrees went from being a sure thing to get a job to the shitty icing on the cake that nobody wants to eat.

This is the way the hiring works(at least in the US):

1.) Inside connections: If you have a buddy on the inside to get you in, golden. From plenty of witnessing experience, I would say 99% of the time if you have an inside connection, it doesn't matter if you have experience or anything else, you are in.

2.) 3 to 5 years of experience. For the first 1 to 2 years, employers think that all you did at your previous similar job was that you were twiddling your thumbs and pissing on the bosses desk/workspace. So 1 to 2 years don't count.

3.) Internship.

4.) The degree that has the least leftover debris from wiping with it, get's the position if the applicants are tied with all the things from 1 to 3.

A friend of mine went to college and got an engineering degree. His job positions in order after graduation were, Target stocker(Had inside connections, minimum wage), technician at an oil refinery(had inside connections, over 14 dollars an hour), cashier at a grocery store(had connections, slightly above minimum wage).

Right out of college, 90 percent of employers in his field outright told him, "your degree means nothing when trying to get a job, if he didn't have 3 to 5 years of experience he shouldn't apply because he is wasting their time."
The other 10% told him, "your degree is important, as a deciding factor if you have the 3 to 5 years of experience and they need a tie breaker."

He was able to get that job at the refinery only because a friend of his worked there, told him outright, "So and so says you are a hard-worker and know your stuff, you are hired." He only got to work there for less than a year because supply talks for the refinery went badly and they had to lay off most of their workforce.

After that, again employers told him his degree meant nothing and then on top of that, since his experience wasn't at the 3 to 5 year level, that refinery technician experience meant nothing.

As for me, it took me two years to find even a basic retail stocking job, because the only previous work experience I had was 6 months as a grocery stocker.
Applying for jobs on my own didn't work. I didn't want to, but a year and ten months into looking for work, I had to actually make a big deal of my social anxiety disorder to get combined help from a government work agency and a private work searching firm for "disabled" people. After dealing with all the paper work, two months later I got a part-time job as a stocker at a home improvement store(only because the firm I was using had deep connections with sending workers to that store).

So in the end, it is society's fault for the most part, for mixing up and turning the hiring process upside-down. Degrees have about 0.05% influence on getting a job. The only time degrees work is if the job you are trying to get is one where you absolutely can't get experience outside of degree training, like becoming a teacher/professor.
 

O maestre

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at the risk of sounding like a stereotypical immigrant father "you be doctor or engineer(mechanical or electrical (masters, Beng is useless))" but seriously if you want job security and good salary its the way to go, because those two high paying vocations are always going to be in demand by society no matter where in the world you live.

albeit i have very little experience in the US job market, all i know is that its hard to get hired, and easy to get canned.
 

IamLEAM1983

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I can relate. My master's is probably going to be utterly useless - but I'm not working at it for the sake of a job. I'm working at it because I'm just that much of a Lit geek. After it, I can look forward to a shitty entry-level job somewhere and then to a good six months spent applying at just about every school I can find.

Failing that, onto the Communications certificate bandwagon I go, so I'll become someone else's PR nerd. I'm 29 and I'm still in the "Yay, two hundred bucks in my pocket!" phase.

So don't stress out, OP. Times are tough for everyone, and never forget that the rosy decades of the fifties and sixties are dead and gone. It used to be you lied to get a job before turning sixteen and plugged at it until retirement. Nowadays, it's all about being overqualified and underpaid.

Just try to live on, and to find something that makes you happy. I'm managing okay, considering.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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Fatboy_41 said:
RhombusHatesYou said:
There is one group of degrees that service professions that are always in demand - Engineering degrees. Never enough Engineers to go around, especially in the more traditional areas of Engineering, such as Mechanical, Electrical and Civil Engineering. Of course, those are professions where you will encounter dirt, grime and tradies on a regular basis. ;)
Oh, god yes. If you're one of those "engineering" fellas, you'll want to avoid us dirty tradies like the plague. ;)
I've actually known a few older tradies who, once their own businesses were up and running and turning a nice profit, decided to go and study Engineering. They said they didn't end up earning more but consulting was a fuck of a lot easier, had better hours, and was something they could do when their knees clapped out.

Absolutely agree with you though. Getting into an apprenticeship and surviving the first 2 years is hard. I was very lucky with mine. I met my boss when he came over to my old mans place looking at buying a motorcycle to rebuild. Random chit-chat led to him mentioning he was "thinking" of gettin an apprentice and that I was "thinking" of an apprenticeship. He called me 2 days later and asked if I wanted to start on the Monday. :)
Nice one. Yeah, from what my nephews have told me about getting their apprenticeships knowing/meeting the right people is the best chance you'll get. If you don't have that you're down in with everyone else looking for a chance.

As for surviving the first 2 years... yeah, not a time you really want to move out of home. Not on those wages. Really hurts when your other mates have gotten office or factory jobs and are relatively cashed up compared to 1st/2nd apprentice pay (that happened to my oldest nephew. he hated it).

These days, most employers won't even look at you without a pre-voc course which is essentially your first few modules of trade school and some time of the tools getting job experience. This is usually done unpaid too, and even then there is no promise you'll land an apprenticeship. As you say, it has gotten better lately with govenment incentives to both employers and apprentices. Tool allowances and bonuses from the government definitely make it easier on the first and second year apprentices. During my first year, I was on $6.50 an hour. It's very hard to live on that. And unfortunately, I was 1 year before the bonuses got raising significantly so I missed out on that too.
Yeah, there are also a few high schools with excellent trades pathways. Some even offer the equivalent of doing prevoc and job placement training as an alternative to 'year 12'... and the workshops are fucking amazing. I remember tech studies workshop(s) at my old high school using barely better than hobbyist level kit (if that) while these schools have professional level kit. I was dead jelly when I first found out... then I remembered tech was only of mild interest to me at school.

The 1st year Tool Allowance has been a massive help for apprentices. Although, in my youngest nephew's case, he finds it a bit annoying because he's actually got better tools than any of the mechanics at his work (not surprising as he got himself about $3k worth of tools with his allowance via a mate of his Dad's) so the other blokes are always borrowing his tools. Of course, if I ever need to borrow a tool, I go visit his place. Him and 2 of his brothers all got apprentice tool allowances (although one brother lost his apprenticeship during the GFC), and even though the oldest brother moved out of home, a lot of his apprenticeship time tools are there... LOTS of tools, not even mentioning their Dad's collection... but it can get a bit violent when a needed tool is missing.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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BiscuitTrouser said:
I know people who turn their lives around WAY past university age.
As a 39 year old first year Uni student, I'm not sure I like the implication that there's a 'university age'. :p


edit:
Hey, how did I manage to post before the post I replied to? Spooky... Bickie, are you fucking about with that time machine again?
 

cerebreturns

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Study history, you will find that the case for every group since ww2, and several before it. The only thing that changes is the years of their lives they feel it.

The fact is society's interconnecttivity has grown to the point that individuals don't matter anymore...at all.

That is what you are feeling, corporations growing, people becoming faceless. Oh...and repetition of the past.


Nothing is as new as it seems, learning that is just part of growing up.
 

BiscuitTrouser

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Ive chosen medicine as a career path. Honestly it seems like my only viable choice. I get to feel good about what i do. And i get to make enough money to live by. Also its a field where hard work and dedication is proportional to the amount of demand you receive. Skilled physicians, researchers and pharmacists are sought after by private hospitals and companies meaning becoming GOOD at what i want to do is basically totally proportional to how successful i am. This is not always the case. Especially in the arts.

To fund this insanely expensive degree i took a year out to work as much menial labor as i could to save up for the crushing debt. Ive taken precautions and reviewed my family assets to work out what i will and wont be able to do in my adult life. I have things insanely easy relative to a lot of people. Im EXTREMELY fortunate to be inspired and totally drawn to an area that both pays well and gives me reason to be happy. Im also fortunate to have the talent to be able to reach such a career. In these things i am likely extremely lucky. Im always thankful. I just cant wait to get started. Chin up OP. I know people who turn their lives around WAY past university age. Its never too late to start something new at our age and even in 10 or 20 years time. Do some exploring and decide what sounds good for you.
 

Johnny Impact

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America produces more college graduates than it needs.

Somebody has to haul trash, drive buses, and cook our meals....and it ain't gonna be this guy:
[img/]http://www.ronalfy.com/files/2013/01/Tyler-Durden.jpg[/img]
Service jobs aren't going away; it's the good jobs you can't get.

I look around at the jobs available in my community and I see two types: 1) Menial labor a trained monkey could do; 2) Things requiring technical expertise you can't get at the local colleges.

I'm fortunate to have a family business to take over (though for anyone who thinks that is a free ride, I assure you it is not, I work overtime, I buy my shares of stock at the same price John Q would pay if it were public, I work or have worked at every aspect of the business from scrubbing the floors up through customer service right on up to choosing a new health insurance plan for the company in the wake of ObamaCare and now know more about how it all ties together than anyone else there).

You are not unique. I felt like the system was failing me all through public school. I was a smart kid, which meant everything was geared for people who weren't me: I suffered through Phys Ed but the jocks didn't have to take Physics; new uniforms for the soccer team but the science room could make do with equipment installed in the 1940's; not enough computers for every student in keyboarding class; and so forth.
 

Kopikatsu

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Johnny Impact said:
Somebody has to haul trash, drive buses, and cook our meals....and it ain't gonna be this guy:
Funfact: The garbage men in my district get paid $22/hr, plus have plenty of bonuses and insurance. They get paid significantly more than our teachers.

From what I hear, plumbing is pretty lucrative, too. Apparently public service jobs are where the money is at.
 

BiscuitTrouser

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RhombusHatesYou said:
BiscuitTrouser said:
I know people who turn their lives around WAY past university age.
As a 39 year old first year Uni student, I'm not sure I like the implication that there's a 'university age'. :p


edit:
Hey, how did I manage to post before the post I replied to? Spooky... Bickie, are you fucking about with that time machine again?
What the hell kind of sorcery is this?! I was about to apologize and correct myself by saying "Traditional university age, by which i mean in the UK pretty much all students are Sheparded into uni at 18/19" but now youre some practitioner of foul magics.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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BiscuitTrouser said:
RhombusHatesYou said:
BiscuitTrouser said:
I know people who turn their lives around WAY past university age.
As a 39 year old first year Uni student, I'm not sure I like the implication that there's a 'university age'. :p


edit:
Hey, how did I manage to post before the post I replied to? Spooky... Bickie, are you fucking about with that time machine again?
What the hell kind of sorcery is this?! I was about to apologize and correct myself by saying "Traditional university age, by which i mean in the UK pretty much all students are Sheparded into uni at 18/19" but now youre some practitioner of foul magics.
Oh sure, try to hide your time travel antics by shifting suspicion on to me...

Anyway, yeah, same sort of thing happens here. Lots of pressure and expectation for kids to do post-secondary study, with university being seen as the most desirable/important.

It's mental that society expects kids to have their entire lives planned out by the time they're 18 when you consider that the same society barely trusts teens to be able to tie their own shoelaces without getting pregnant or killing someone.
 

Johnny Impact

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Kopikatsu said:
Johnny Impact said:
Somebody has to haul trash, drive buses, and cook our meals....and it ain't gonna be this guy:
Funfact: The garbage men in my district get paid $22/hr, plus have plenty of bonuses and insurance. They get paid significantly more than our teachers.

From what I hear, plumbing is pretty lucrative, too. Apparently public service jobs are where the money is at.
I'm in the wrong field....
 

Vault101

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Sep 26, 2010
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aba1 said:
While this is true I really really wouldn't recommend it I am in those fields and I can tell ya it is extremely apparent who went through school and who didn't because the people who didn't have the worst portfolios that look extremely amateur and they tend to have really bad habits and are just over all extremely underqualified..
just out of interest can you give me some specific examples?
 

Vault101

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RhombusHatesYou said:
It's mental that society expects kids to have their entire lives planned out by the time they're 18 when you consider that the same society barely trusts teens to be able to tie their own shoelaces without getting pregnant or killing someone.
yeah, I remember back in highschool everyone acted like it was the biggest thing that was going to determine the rest of their lives FOREVER (the ones doing tertiary path that is)

you dont know what the fuck you want in school....and you probably dont know what you want at 18...

I was having a chat with my sister some time ago and she mentioned how they changed the Medicial path for university over here in WA, bascially you can't go straight from school into medicine, you have to get a degree first then sit the test (I dont even think it has to be related but I gues the Idea is you take a degree in somthing that will help you with that)

I think it was because they wanted graduates with more real life experience...or they just werent getting good graduates

as for me I know its not quite like america but I really do wonder if teritary education is worth it...but then I doubt I get anywhere on the work experience I have now alone...
 

Sonic Doctor

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Vault101 said:
Sonic Doctor said:
I'm pretty sure they were joking....
I kind of figured, though I don't think I wasted my time.

It was important information that will let the OP know that he isn't alone and that it all isn't his fault.