It really is the song that does not end

[Thaluikhain]

Hey, I managed to a double post inside it.

Don't think that's happened before.

 

[Random Gamer]

This isn't censorship. They are free not to say things if they don't want to.

If someone doesn't want a personal matter publicised by the media, the media deciding not to publish it because of this is not censorship.

Oh, a journalist deciding on his own not to talk about some story isn't a big problem; at worst, it's self-censorship, and it happens every day.
Debating together to have a common stance on this is more annoying - this is supposed to be a free-market, with businesses competing against each other, so they shouldn't act as a monopoly who decides what's important and what's not, because one day it might go farther than just about side-issues: they might decide not to cover a promising game just because, not to talk about an incoming game's major flaws, or to coordinate bad or good rankings for whatever reason.

Still, what should worry people in this specific forum is the bit where Ben Kuchera is telling (to be kind) Greg Tito, Escapits's editor to close down threads here around. Telling someone else how to moderate his own board might not be technically censorship, but that comes quite close.

 

[Jux]

But I do have very real worries in the tone of the two exchanges. In the first use of this mess to give positive PR to Depression Quest, and in the second exchange in pressuring other sites to shutdown the conversation threads. Both are very troubling behavior to me.

First, what worries do you have specifically about Depression Quest getting positive PR? Second, try looking at it from their perspective. If you were leading a gaming website, and you were seeing a whole mess of threads popping up that looked like harassment to you, would you try to shut them down?

And I'll make no qualms about it, there was a very real coordinated effort by 4chan to spread that story across a multitude of sites. I remember seeing at least 5 or 6 threads all pop up across subforums of the escapist alone, and the thread that came up in R&P was an attack piece. Everything from the title 'Gaming journalism exposed as a pro feminist hugbox' (verbatim) to the content of the OP, focusing on Quinn's sexual activity in her private life, was an attack, and not the high minded crusade for journalistic integrity like I see some people trying to push. I find it especially galling that with this thing being not even two months old, and people are already trying to push a revisionist history on me, like I wasn't there to see it myself. It's downright insulting.

 

[DC_78]

Source is only slightly less biased than Glen Beck. And if it was even possible, even more right wing. So I am not really comfortable with the editorializing in between those snippets they actually posted.

Glenn Beck is much worse. I have been on the Blaze to get the other side's arguments before. Horrid site, the comments alone make me pull my hair out at the hypocrisy.

The snippets they posted were actually in my opinion showing a valid basis for not covering things. Doxxing is bad, no matter who does it and that behavior should not be rewarded with press. People parachuting into forums to only spam about "that one thing" probably don't want to be a part of that forum's community and are often just stirring shit. Still no one should be telling someone else how to run their site.

I agree with your first point to an extent. They have wrote articles before about this type of scandal nonsense, like in the articles about the Cards Against Humanity owner and his alleged rape charges from college. I see very little difference other than the harassment, but this Dev has cried wolf before on harassment also. So I am very conflicted on this.

As to the censorship, and yes by definition any group doing this is censoring information it does not have to be a government, I seriously am opposed to it. If a post is threatening or harassment that is why you have moderators. Shutting down the discussion altogether is just wrong.

I'm not terribly surprised by the incestuous nature of the these journalists being revealed by this mailing list. I am slightly disappointed in the confirmation of it but this is no smoking gun. These sorts of things are often there so that they can fact check amongst themselves before going live. A lot of that communication that was released could be interpreted as just that. I have to try to see both sides as somewhat conveniently there are no complete email chains being shown, nor is there a source showing the full info dump. This cannot be spun as censorship. by definition, censorship is something that is undertaken by the government. These are private enterprises and are all free to report or not as they see fit.

I find it highly amusing to read an op-ed complaining about journalism being being spun to form a narrative that is essentially the same thing. sending out just enough to support their claims, talking about other bits that they did not send out and claiming that they are are somehow different because reasons. the narrative the writer is trying to spin is that these guys are all in some kind of virtual drawing room in smoking jackets sipping brandy and waxing philosophical about how to distort reality on this. What I'm seeing is a group of people in the same business trying to help each other not destroy their livelihoods over a jilted ex boyfriend stirring shit on the internet.

There is one overwhelming aspect of support for this though. The released emails were from before the whole gaming press closing ranks around each other and attacking gamers thing. that plays squarely into the narrative that this op-ed writer wants to spin. BUT, without the whole file, I refuse to trust that I am not being manipulated by some right wing hack who may or may not have a shrine to Sarah Palin in his bedroom (based on several of the adverts and linked articles on that page).

Milo seems to be very characterful. Not often you see a gay conservative reporter, but I believe at this point he has made his motives very clear in some of his posts. He sees a story here and is presenting it to an audience that has latched onto his every tweet. So I will forgive his spoon feeding us some information to ensure a few extra clicks. As long as he is willing to release all the information he has in context.

As to his politics he has come out and said he understands most gamers are rather left leaning.He has stated he does not want to brow beat anyone with his politics. He is not seeking converts, but I will admit after this even my liberal views have been sorely challenged.

First, what worries do you have specifically about Depression Quest getting positive PR?

Because reviewing it now when they are openly sympathetic to the developer is by definition bias. For good or ill it will color the review.

Second, try looking at it from their perspective. If you were leading a gaming website, and you were seeing a whole mess of threads popping up that looked like harassment to you, would you try to shut them down?

And I'll make no qualms about it, there was a very real coordinated effort by 4chan to spread that story across a multitude of sites. I remember seeing at least 5 or 6 threads all pop up across subforums of the escapist alone, and the thread that came up in R&P was an attack piece. Everything from the title 'Gaming journalism exposed as a pro feminist hugbox' (verbatim) to the content of the OP, focusing on Quinn's sexual activity in her private life.

I did not see that thread so Jux I cannot rightly comment on it. But the simple fact that, by 4chan manipulation or not, this topic was demanding to be talked about. It makes no sense when they wrote articles about the Cards Aginst Humanity guy's rape allegations, and decided en mass not to talk about this developer's scandal at all. It really boggles my mind that one was okay to write articles on and another was not. And then decided to shut down all discussion of it everywhere almost. Including 4chan. They have gone through multiple purges by moderators over there. That is why the Escapist has so many new faces.

 

[DC_78]

Double post sorry.

 

[giles]

Source is about as credible as writings on a public toilet. Is cracked and breitbart really the best we got?


captcha: political party
oh you, captcha...

 

[greasedweasel]

For anyone who wasn't already aware, Scott Nichols, a freelance writer and member of the group, is doing a very respectful and even-handed job of fielding questions about this on ask.fm.

http://ask.fm/ScottNichols

Personally, I don't see why this is getting as much traction as it is. The whole thing looks like Glenn Beck-level conspiracy theorising and clutching at straws - which I guess shouldn't be surprising any more from this movement.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I've always been of the impression that breitbart was some sort of lunatic opinion machine, not a news outlet.

I'm going to be all cynical and ask why the two are mutually exclusive.

 

[rbstewart7263]

to answer some of the questions on here. When I refer to censorship I do not refer to there choice too not talk about zoe's bangin sex life I refer to there collusion to have mod's on 4chan and on there own sites mass ban all discussion on the matter.

as to breitbart I dont know much about them. Why would they be a "lunatic machine" and why would you state it as such if youve never been there? something ado about there reputation?

Source is only slightly less biased than Glen Beck. And if it was even possible, even more right wing. So I am not really comfortable with the editorializing in between those snippets they actually posted.

Glenn Beck is much worse. I have been on the Blaze to get the other side's arguments before. Horrid site, the comments alone make me pull my hair out at the hypocrisy.

The snippets they posted were actually in my opinion showing a valid basis for not covering things. Doxxing is bad, no matter who does it and that behavior should not be rewarded with press. People parachuting into forums to only spam about "that one thing" probably don't want to be a part of that forum's community and are often just stirring shit. Still no one should be telling someone else how to run their site.

I agree with your first point to an extent. They have wrote articles before about this type of scandal nonsense, like in the articles about the Cards Against Humanity owner and his alleged rape charges from college. I see very little difference other than the harassment, but this Dev has cried wolf before on harassment also. So I am very conflicted on this.

As to the censorship, and yes by definition any group doing this is censoring information it does not have to be a government, I seriously am opposed to it. If a post is threatening or harassment that is why you have moderators. Shutting down the discussion altogether is just wrong.

I'm not terribly surprised by the incestuous nature of the these journalists being revealed by this mailing list. I am slightly disappointed in the confirmation of it but this is no smoking gun. These sorts of things are often there so that they can fact check amongst themselves before going live. A lot of that communication that was released could be interpreted as just that. I have to try to see both sides as somewhat conveniently there are no complete email chains being shown, nor is there a source showing the full info dump. This cannot be spun as censorship. by definition, censorship is something that is undertaken by the government. These are private enterprises and are all free to report or not as they see fit.

I find it highly amusing to read an op-ed complaining about journalism being being spun to form a narrative that is essentially the same thing. sending out just enough to support their claims, talking about other bits that they did not send out and claiming that they are are somehow different because reasons. the narrative the writer is trying to spin is that these guys are all in some kind of virtual drawing room in smoking jackets sipping brandy and waxing philosophical about how to distort reality on this. What I'm seeing is a group of people in the same business trying to help each other not destroy their livelihoods over a jilted ex boyfriend stirring shit on the internet.

There is one overwhelming aspect of support for this though. The released emails were from before the whole gaming press closing ranks around each other and attacking gamers thing. that plays squarely into the narrative that this op-ed writer wants to spin. BUT, without the whole file, I refuse to trust that I am not being manipulated by some right wing hack who may or may not have a shrine to Sarah Palin in his bedroom (based on several of the adverts and linked articles on that page).

Milo seems to be very characterful. Not often you see a gay conservative reporter, but I believe at this point he has made his motives very clear in some of his posts. He sees a story here and is presenting it to an audience that has latched onto his every tweet. So I will forgive his spoon feeding us some information to ensure a few extra clicks. As long as he is willing to release all the information he has in context.

As to his politics he has come out and said he understands most gamers are rather left leaning.He has stated he does not want to brow beat anyone with his politics. He is not seeking converts, but I will admit after this even my liberal views have been sorely challenged.

First, what worries do you have specifically about Depression Quest getting positive PR?

Because reviewing it now when they are openly sympathetic to the developer is by definition bias. For good or ill it will color the review.

Second, try looking at it from their perspective. If you were leading a gaming website, and you were seeing a whole mess of threads popping up that looked like harassment to you, would you try to shut them down?

And I'll make no qualms about it, there was a very real coordinated effort by 4chan to spread that story across a multitude of sites. I remember seeing at least 5 or 6 threads all pop up across subforums of the escapist alone, and the thread that came up in R&P was an attack piece. Everything from the title 'Gaming journalism exposed as a pro feminist hugbox' (verbatim) to the content of the OP, focusing on Quinn's sexual activity in her private life.

I did not see that thread so Jux I cannot rightly comment on it. But the simple fact that, by 4chan manipulation or not, this topic was demanding to be talked about. It makes no sense when they wrote articles about the Cards Aginst Humanity guy's rape allegations, and decided en mass not to talk about this developer's scandal at all. It really boggles my mind that one was okay to write articles on and another was not. And then decided to shut down all discussion of it everywhere almost. Including 4chan. They have gone through multiple purges by moderators over there. That is why the Escapist has so many new faces.

The people who own kotaku gawker media.do this kind of hypocritical bs alot. such as with this image here

http://i.imgur.com/CQ5qgvu.jpg

and this

http://betabeat.com/2014/09/spare-us-the-sanctimony-the-gross-hypocrisy-of-online-media-in-the-nude-photo-leak/

annnnddddd this

http://bitchmagazine.org/post/gawker-jezebel-gawker-hipster-racism

I could go on about how this hurts this cause or just how you should loook at the good and bad on both sides of a given issue but I honestly shouldnt have too no offense. Its simply something that should be done.

This isn't censorship. They are free not to say things if they don't want to.

If someone doesn't want a personal matter publicised by the media, the media deciding not to publish it because of this is not censorship.

Oh, a journalist deciding on his own not to talk about some story isn't a big problem; at worst, it's self-censorship, and it happens every day.
Debating together to have a common stance on this is more annoying - this is supposed to be a free-market, with businesses competing against each other, so they shouldn't act as a monopoly who decides what's important and what's not, because one day it might go farther than just about side-issues: they might decide not to cover a promising game just because, not to talk about an incoming game's major flaws, or to coordinate bad or good rankings for whatever reason.

Still, what should worry people in this specific forum is the bit where Ben Kuchera is telling (to be kind) Greg Tito, Escapits's editor to close down threads here around. Telling someone else how to moderate his own board might not be technically censorship, but that comes quite close.

Its cronyistic at best and people should be appalled no matter what the alleged reason. And no its not all about zoe if you go to kotaku in action there are people who do just want to talk about zoe and those who see the bigger picture and try to keep the course set on the bigger picture of journalistic integrity and of treating your audience with more respect.

snip

that is logical and you should do that and I shall as well thank you.

 

[Jux]

Because reviewing it now when they are openly sympathetic to the developer is by definition bias. For good or ill it will color the review.

Yea most likely. I would say it partly depends on the order of events though. Did they already know about Depression Quest and like it, but just never got around to an official review? Or are they doing this solely for the sake of digging into their position further? If it's the former, I frankly don't care, as they would have given her a good review anyway.

I did not see that thread so Jux I cannot rightly comment on it. But the simple fact that, by 4chan manipulation or not, this topic was demanding to be talked about. It makes no sense when they wrote articles about the Cards Aginst Humanity guy's rape allegations, and decided en mass not to talk about this developer's scandal at all. It really boggles my mind that one was okay to write articles on and another was not. And then decided to shut down all discussion of it everywhere almost. Including 4chan. They have gone through multiple purges by moderators over there. That is why the Escapist has so many new faces.

And yet the way they chose to bring this topic up was airing the private sex life of a dev, with all the slut shaming and anti feminist rhetoric attached. It's a complete false equivelence to bring up them shutting down discussion about Quinn's personal sex life versus talking about the allegations of sexual assault/rape against Temkin, the most obvious being that Quinn was not accused of sexually assaulting or raping anyone. At least not initally. If the breaking story had been 'Quinn sexually assaults (I forget the guys name) at Phil Fish's wedding' then that would have been worth covering imo, because it's an assault, not something that happened in private that at best was incidental to all of this.

If you want to talk about the hypocrisy of Gawker media in general, the Hulk Hogan/J Law thing actually seems like a pretty clear case, from what I can see. I don't know the details about either, so maybe I'm missing something, but if they're going to defend J Law, they should have done the same for Hogan.