It turns out Bioware doesn't hate you all

[TsunamiWombat]

"I think i'll just leave this here-"

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10084349

atghunter wrote...

Posted this yesterday, I'll repost here. Hope it helps to see what's on the other side of the mirror atm.

I don't think Bioware is out of touch with their customers though I agree with an earlier poster that right now they are assessing their options. Nor do I think that everyone speaking up for them at the moment is a "yes man" or shill. That said:

I don't for a moment think there are any other endings, this was a hallucination, etc. Bioware/EA is letting these speculations go on for two reasons. First, they are letting people vent. Secondly, they are weighing options.

Years ago, I worked for a PR damage control team and everything right now is going by the book. First, re-affirm and ignore (also known as doubling down), then try and define the detractors in the mainstream with things like "this is all a big mistunderstand", etc. while remaining civil in the hopes the detractors go rabid. Meanwhile go dark and use countermeasures through third part sources to prop up your position and brand the outcry as driven by hacks, haters or a minority trying to wear out the detractors on these outlets or "shock troops" while protecting the corporate core. Next, offer something distracting (notice SWTOR is free this upcoming weekend) known as the "faux olive branch"/ask the angry people to explain their concerns (without agreeing to commit to a compromise), buy more add time (definitely going on right now), and hope it dies down. If the pressure is still on, determine the economic viability of 1) ignoring the outcry and banking on the fickle nature of consumers to get over it or 2) determining if we can make money off of fixing it.

If it is any consolation, the decision whether or not there is a fix DLC, etc, won't be made by the writers so illusions to things they wanted to convey don't matter much atm (to wit: the leads comments yesterday). I suspect he's been called in and politely told by the PR guys to not do that again. This is now a corporate problem, not an artistic struggle with fans. Somewhere in the EA bunker, attorneys, PR guys, writers and brass are sharing numbers b/c in the end this will come down to hard currency.

As one who despises the endings, I'm hoping the suits tell the visionaries that the customers are loud enough and numerous enough to swollow their pride and get them out of this storm. For those that love them, I readily accept your position and respectfully disagree.

atghunter wrote...

Greetings All,

First, I?m flattered someone would repost this. Many thanks.

A couple follow-up thoughts for those wondering what is likely going on with the other side of the mirror in the last couple days:

First, Operation Goliath, the free Star Wars online weekend, and the recent noncommittal overtures to listen arefaux olive branches. Sorry. Customers intrinsically want to believe companies they patronize listen and when they stop believing that, the company has to say they are listening and do anything to get the detractors off-message. There are a dozen names for this, but the most memorable was "The Shell Game."

You will know that there?s a genuine need for dialogue in the corporate bunker when the message turns from ?we?re listening? to ?we acknowledge we may have a disconnect with our consumers and are willing to discuss a meaningful solution to the problem.? It signals an end to non-committed deflection and opening genuine talks to solve the problem (it?s knows as ?Exposing Your Throat? btw). At present, you?ll notice Bioware/EA has only said they will ?explain? the endings. That?s not a give, that?s a delay tactic.

But here?s the part that amazes me as an old PR guy and is totally new. The disenfranchised base here is changing the old methodology. It?s akin to comparing old-style bunker PR defenses to new blitzkrieg-style consumers. To date, the ?bunker strategy? was always used because it was virtually foolproof. However, social media and the 24 hour news cycle have simply changed everything. Twenty years ago, you could not mass 30,000 protesters into a networked base without some luck, money, a GREAT cause and (most importantly) time. By the time you did get organized, folks were either burned out or lost interest. Groups like Take Back have altered the landscape and suddenly the contest is taken from the old paradigm to a crazy new (and wonderful IMO) place. Preorder sales took away customers biggest weapon in the past (i.e. don?t buy the product). Now customers who feel they have received poor value have been potentially re-empowered by the internet. Bioware/EA is feeling the full brunt of this thing while passion is hottest. They are deploying countermeasures faster than the old strategies ever would have ever suggested. To some degree, they are being outmaneuvered atm. But now it depends on how long the protest/outcry holds up.

Two more quick points and I?ll close. First, the Child?s Play movement was brilliant. Notice over the past few days how some of the most visceral detractors to the outcry have had to shift their vitriol from ?you?re spoiled selfish haters? to ?sure you gave to charity, but you are spoiled selfish haters.? Nobody is drinking that Kool-Aid. Better yet, some outlets are now saying ?maybe the game has problem but its still art? from the precedent message ?best game ever.? That won?t fly with the mainstream. If its one thing they know is that when ?art? hits the marketplace, it is a commodity, nothing more. You?ve changed the countermeasures from "unbiased" critics of the movement into drum beaters simply trying to get you angry. EA?s PR guys probably envy you (grudgingly) atm.

Second, don?t buy the only X people voted in the poll out of 1 billion customers, so they don?t care. That?s bunk. Are there "drum beaters" on both sides of this issue that just want to see controversy, sure. But if I was sitting in an office looking at that Bioware poll, I?d be reaching for a cigarette.

Finally remember, they have much more data at their disposal. They know how sales are going, how much time people are playing that are synced into Origin, etc. They will watch those numbers this weekend. If sales slow, watch for price cutting within 10 days (just over the two week US release date). It will mean that retailers are getting nervous and will slow new unit orders. As I?ve said before, this will come down to hard currency. If the protests start having an effect on that front, the response will come.

I?m an older gamer and again appreciate the repost. To everyone (on both sides) continue to let your voices be heard. You are consumers and have every right to engage in this discourse. The boards being locked yesterday proves someone is watching and knows this is an issue. I'm in the hated-ending camp to be sure, but I admire everyone one of you who is arguing for what believe on both sides!

Cheers.

Many men may be willing to die heroically for a noble cause, but few men will live humbly for one. Wilhelm Stekel

atghunter wrote...

Greetings All,

Really flattered with the responses. Respectful regards and thanks to all. Been spending a few minutes reading over Mr. Hudson?s response. Here's my PR insider perspective. Hope it helps a bit.

First, let?s simply look at strategy over content. 1) They definitely released this on a Friday evening to bury it in the news cycle (because it does acknowledge in passing there are unhappy customers, but more next paragraph). Btw, kudos to those who pointed that out earlier in the thread-Solid catch. 2) Several of the ?anti-ending? articles (most notably Forbes) are now creeping into front page searches for ?Mass Effect 3? instead of ?Mass Effect 3 endings? and they are hoping this release will knock those stories to page 2. 3) They are hoping to deflect some of the current silence anger by combining this message with this weekend?s faux olive branches (discussed earlier).

All in all, the message release strategy is nothing too interesting at this point.

The content, however, is interesting. Most of the statement is doublespeak meant to let you see whatever you want as to as to the direction this thing is heading. Mr. Hudson then clearly tries to give validity to the greatness of the game by citing a couple news sources in the hopes of getting those stories more hits and onto search page one (nicely played EA PR), but the main thing is a clear acknowledgement that Houston has a problem with ?some? fans. Mind you, he uses the term ?some? and ?most passionate fans? to try and minimalize the level of the outcry, but the disenfranchised fan base has reached the level of acknowledgement. That is important. Does it mean those disenfranchised fans have won? Not by a long shot. But Mr. Hudson?s statement was written (or at least approved by someone running damage control). And ultimately any time you have to acknowledge a problem with your product or customers, you have issues.

Does he continue on holding his own line that they intended ?bittersweet? endings? Yes. Is the comment that you?ll see more of Commander Shepard an illusion to an ?ending? DLC? Not certain but probably not at the moment. Does he utilize the ?we?re listening to feedback but not promising we?ll do anything? line used on the boards yesterday? Sure.

It is clear most of his statement is insubstantial and leaves tons of room for spin either way down the road. Whether it gets used or not, management is trying to find some wiggle room in case they have to change course.

Last bit. A warning. PR guys know that right now many people?s emotions are on edge and often use a tactic called ?Sound and Fury? (Shakespearean reference see Macbeth) to see if it gets people raging. It helps that strategy that people are looking at anything coming out of Bioware to detect wind changes. That said, I was reading through the thread burning with Mr. Hudson?s statement (though to be fair it is a Bioware/EA statement) and it seems for the most part folks are being passionate, but civil. EA PR will probably chalk up that aspect of this release as a failedruse de guerre (trick of war).

Stay civil, stay passionate, and stay vocal no matter which side you take. For myself, I?ll shamelessly

Hold the Line

 

[Elamdri]

Right, because they took one shortcut for something that barely mattered in the long run, the entire game is a cash in. That's some damn fine logic right there. I mean, there's no way they could've put effort into, I don't know, the combat, and the dialogue, and the character interactions, and other things that a game needs.

"Barely mattered"? Some fans have grown to like that character. No, of course it doesn't change anything from pure gameplay perspective, but from the perspective of personal involvement, hell yeah, it matters.

Can you honestly say that you would have been upset with that photo had you NOT known that it was a stock photo altered with Photoshop.

 

[Vegosiux]

Right, because they took one shortcut for something that barely mattered in the long run, the entire game is a cash in. That's some damn fine logic right there. I mean, there's no way they could've put effort into, I don't know, the combat, and the dialogue, and the character interactions, and other things that a game needs.

"Barely mattered"? Some fans have grown to like that character. No, of course it doesn't change anything from pure gameplay perspective, but from the perspective of personal involvement, hell yeah, it matters.

Not defending Bioware, but I tend to think they would of been screwed no matter what face they put on Tali, mainly because of the amount of love for her in the community.

That is, of course, true. Everyone had their own idea about her, and no matter what they did, they'd piss off a lot of people. I still say keeping her helmet on would be the safest course of action; but still I'm sure fans would prefer being pissed off because BW made Tali look different from their imagination; as opposed to being pissed off because they just slapped a stock photo in there.

Can you honestly say that you would have been upset that photo had you NOT known that it was a stock photo altered with Photoshop.

That's kind of the whole point, isn't it. It's not how Tali's face looks that upsets the fans - it's the fact that BioWare didn't even bother designing her face in the first place. People are upset over BW being lazy more than they are over how Tali's face turned out.

 

[CrazyBlaze]

So basically, a bunch of PR wank with promise of more dlc's.


This topic has been illuminating.

I look forward to watching the fans spin this into "OMG NEW ALTERNATE ENDING!!!!!!!!"

We understand that you don't like Mass Effect 3. The things you say are deliberately said in such a way that anyone that liked the game is pissed off and then when they proceed to reply back you call them a fanboy. We get that you don't like the game and you are entitled to your opinion but can you please just leave people who liked the game and wish to discuss it alone. Why don't you go find a topic or make a topic about a game that you like and leave the rest of us alone. Please and thank you

 

[Elamdri]

Can you honestly say that you would have been upset that photo had you NOT known that it was a stock photo altered with Photoshop.

That's kind of the whole point, isn't it. It's not how Tali's face looks that upsets the fans - it's the fact that BioWare didn't even bother designing her face in the first place. People are upset over BW being lazy more than they are over how Tali's face turned out.

But why does that MATTER? Who cares HOW they did it? What matters is how it looks. How are you HARMED by a stock photo being used if the end result is of appropriate quality.

 

[Phlakes]

Right, because they took one shortcut for something that barely mattered in the long run, the entire game is a cash in. That's some damn fine logic right there. I mean, there's no way they could've put effort into, I don't know, the combat, and the dialogue, and the character interactions, and other things that a game needs.

"Barely mattered"? Some fans have grown to like that character. No, of course it doesn't change anything from pure gameplay perspective, but from the perspective of personal involvement, hell yeah, it matters.

Relatively. I feel like I always have to put a bunch of disclaimers for people taking things literally. Tali's face showed up basically once, for a fraction of people, in a way that was completely inconsequential to the rest of the game. So compared to, again, the combat, dialogue, and character interaction, it barely matters.

 

[Vegosiux]

But why does that MATTER? Who cares HOW they did it? What matters is how it looks. How are you HARMED by a stock photo being used if the end result is of appropriate quality.

Why are you asking me questions I have already answered? If you refuse to take my answers for what they are, okay, your choice. If you're not willing to accept the existance of a different point of view, why ask for it in the first place?

 

[Strain42]

Well I would HOPE that BioWare doesn't hate me. What did I ever do to them? I don't even buy their games and...oh...is that why they hate me?

...I made myself sad.

 

[Elamdri]

But why does that MATTER? Who cares HOW they did it? What matters is how it looks. How are you HARMED by a stock photo being used if the end result is of appropriate quality.

Why are you asking me questions I have already answered?

Because I find your answer irrelevant and inadequate. I'm trying to make a point that complaining about the photo for the sole reason that it is a stock photo is a stupid complaint.

If an artist had spent twenty hours creating that exact photo by scratch, then the only difference would be the time spent in the creation of the photo.

It would be an entirely DIFFERENT issue if people thought that the photo was a BAD picture, but very few people are complaining about that. That is a reasonable and valid complaint.

"You did a bad job on this image!" is very different from "You made this perfectly adequate image too easily!"

One makes sense. The other is stupid.

 

[Valanthe]

So basically, a bunch of PR wank with promise of more dlc's.


This topic has been illuminating.

I look forward to watching the fans spin this into "OMG NEW ALTERNATE ENDING!!!!!!!!"

We understand that you don't like Mass Effect 3. The things you say are deliberately said in such a way that anyone that liked the game is pissed off and then when they proceed to reply back you call them a fanboy. We get that you don't like the game and you are entitled to your opinion but can you please just leave people who liked the game and wish to discuss it alone. Why don't you go find a topic or make a topic about a game that you like and leave the rest of us alone. Please and thank you

Don't feed him, he's like a leech, the zeal with which he pursues his hatred of anyone who happens to like Bioware as a company makes me think he has some kind of mental deficency where his very well being depends on the attention we so happily lavish upon him.

Relatively. I feel like I always have to put a bunch of disclaimers for people taking things literally. Tali's face showed up basically once, for a fraction of people, in a way that was completely inconsequential to the rest of the game. So compared to, again, the combat, dialogue, and character interaction, it barely matters.

I have to agree with you, honestly if someone hadn't have told me that Tali's photo was shopped, I wouldn't even know. I might have griped about the fact she's apparently wearing a sweater instead of her environmental suit while clearly outside, but I wouldn't have suspected it was a stock photo. Honestly I'm just dissapointed that they showed her face at all. I liked it being a mystery, and with how the scene on Rannoch plays out, they actually got my hopes up that they weren't going to, which made the dissapointment when she gives you the picture in the very next conversation just that much greater.

 

[Vegosiux]

Because I find your answer irrelevant and inadequate. I'm trying to make a point that complaining about the photo for the sole reason that it is a stock photo is a stupid complaint.

Tough. Try harder. Or don't. Your choice. Don't expect me to conect the dots for you.

If an artist had spent twenty hours creating that exact photo by scratch, then the only difference would be the time spent in the creation of the photo.

Time and effort put into it, exactly. See, people are upset because there was hardly any effort put into it.

It would be an entirely DIFFERENT issue if people thought that the photo was a BAD picture, but very few people are complaining about that. That is a reasonable and valid complaint.

Of course it would be an entirely different issue, but that's not the issue we're discussing, is it?

"You did a bad job on this image!" is very different from "You made this perfectly adequate image too easily!"

Oh I see, the good old put-words-into-people's-mouths trick. How about you quit that, use your brain cells a little and figure out what the second complaint really is.

One makes sense. The other is stupid.

Why is it that one makes sense and the other is stupid? Because Elamdri says so?


...actually, sod this, obviously everyone who does not think the same as Elamdri does is stupid and wrong. Because Elamdri said so.

I personally think both complaints are valid, and can see where people are coming from. Keeping an open mind and all. It's a pain sometimes.

 

[Emiscary]

Props to TsunamiWombat for the repost. It's so fun having insight into PR bullshit, it's like having a consumer's roadmap ^.^

 

[Strain42]

I don't blame BioWare for not wanting a put a lot of time and effort into something as trivial as a photograph of Tali.

Would it have been magically better if instead of a stock photo they had just done the exact same thing with a photo they took themselves to look about the same?

 

[Elamdri]

If an artist had spent twenty hours creating that exact photo by scratch, then the only difference would be the time spent in the creation of the photo.

Time and effort put into it, exactly. See, people are upset because there was hardly any effort put into it.

Why does the amount of effort that someone put in matter if the results are acceptable? I don't understand why this is a problem.


Let me put it this way. If I had a button on my keyboard that said "Make a picture of Tali" and I pressed it and it made a photo of Tali instantly, and you found the photo to be of good quality, why does it matter that I only had to push a button to create it.

What I am asking is why does the effort put into creating the product matter? Only the quality of the product matters. If the product's quality is good, then what do you care if it took 1 second or 1 year to make?

Edit: I apologize for the earlier post. My point is that saying "I don't like the photo because it's a stock photo" is illogical.

 

[distortedreality]

Right, because they took one shortcut for something that barely mattered in the long run, the entire game is a cash in. That's some damn fine logic right there. I mean, there's no way they could've put effort into, I don't know, the combat, and the dialogue, and the character interactions, and other things that a game needs.

"Barely mattered"? Some fans have grown to like that character. No, of course it doesn't change anything from pure gameplay perspective, but from the perspective of personal involvement, hell yeah, it matters.

Not defending Bioware, but I tend to think they would of been screwed no matter what face they put on Tali, mainly because of the amount of love for her in the community.

That is, of course, true. Everyone had their own idea about her, and no matter what they did, they'd piss off a lot of people. I still say keeping her helmet on would be the safest course of action; but still I'm sure fans would prefer being pissed off because BW made Tali look different from their imagination; as opposed to being pissed off because they just slapped a stock photo in there.

Totally agreed. Is very much a case of the process being more important here, not the end product.

 

[Strain42]

If an artist had spent twenty hours creating that exact photo by scratch, then the only difference would be the time spent in the creation of the photo.

Time and effort put into it, exactly. See, people are upset because there was hardly any effort put into it.

Why does the amount of effort that someone put in matter if the results are acceptable? I don't understand why this is a problem.


Let me put it this way. If I had a button on my keyboard that said "Make a picture of Tali" and I pressed it and it made a photo of Tali instantly, and you found the photo to be of good quality, why does it matter that I only had to push a button to create it.

What I am asking is why does the effort put into creating the product matter? Only the quality of the product matters. If the product's quality is good, then what do you care if it took 1 second or 1 year to make?

While I do agree with you that Tali doesn't matter, I'd like to point out what I do disagree with in that theory.

Compare it to say...a painting. If you hang a painting in your house, would you rather have a painting that an actual artist put time and effort into, or would you rather just go to Kinko's and get a copy to hang in about 10 minutes.

When it comes to things that matter, having story behind the quality is nice. It's why even though today we have the technology to make things better and faster than we did in the past, people like the old time stuff like cars and guns.

Of course that's stuff that matters. Something small like a photograph in a video game that they could have just shot themselves (seriously, I'm sure BioWare has at least one female employee. Would people have been fine with Tali if they'd just snapped a photo of a female co-worker and touched it up with photoshop rather than doing the same thing to an already well shot stock photo?)

 

[Suicidejim]

We understand that you don't like Mass Effect 3. The things you say are deliberately said in such a way that anyone that liked the game is pissed off and then when they proceed to reply back you call them a fanboy. We get that you don't like the game and you are entitled to your opinion but can you please just leave people who liked the game and wish to discuss it alone. Why don't you go find a topic or make a topic about a game that you like and leave the rest of us alone. Please and thank you

Dude, give it a rest.

We know you don't like Bioware, we know you don't like ME3, and that's fine.

But we don't need you to tell us in every single post you make

Are you guys seriously jocking me right now?

In that post I did not attack Mass Effect 3. I didn't even attack freaking Bioware. Why are you guys jumping down my throat? I just said what everyone else with saying. Why do you guys keep looking for excuses to paint me as some sort of anti-bioware attack drone.


I know you guys are better than that. When you act like this, you guys come off as..well.you-know-what-boys.

In all fairness, if you commented on non-Mass Effect topics more frequently this might not be an issue, but a quick check of your recent posts and it's about 95% ME related stuff. I barely touch the gaming discussion sections, and already I've seen more of you in these threads than was particularly necessary for me to understand your stances. When a guy talks almost exclusively about Bioware and Mass Effect, you can be excused for thinking he may have an axe to grind.

 

[Elamdri]

If an artist had spent twenty hours creating that exact photo by scratch, then the only difference would be the time spent in the creation of the photo.

Time and effort put into it, exactly. See, people are upset because there was hardly any effort put into it.

Why does the amount of effort that someone put in matter if the results are acceptable? I don't understand why this is a problem.


Let me put it this way. If I had a button on my keyboard that said "Make a picture of Tali" and I pressed it and it made a photo of Tali instantly, and you found the photo to be of good quality, why does it matter that I only had to push a button to create it.

What I am asking is why does the effort put into creating the product matter? Only the quality of the product matters. If the product's quality is good, then what do you care if it took 1 second or 1 year to make?

While I do agree with you that Tali doesn't matter, I'd like to point out what I do disagree with in that theory.

Compare it to say...a painting. If you hang a painting in your house, would you rather have a painting that an actual artist put time and effort into, or would you rather just go to Kinko's and get a copy to hang in about 10 minutes.

When it comes to things that matter, having story behind the quality is nice. It's why even though today we have the technology to make things better and faster than we did in the past, people like the old time stuff like cars and guns.

Of course that's stuff that matters. Something small like a photograph in a video game that they could have just shot themselves (seriously, I'm sure BioWare has at least one female employee. Would people have been fine with Tali if they'd just snapped a photo of a female co-worker and touched it up with photoshop rather than doing the same thing to an already well shot stock photo?)

I get where you are coming from, but I don't know that it is a perfect analogy.


I would put it like this. Take Bob Ross. Bob Ross can make a great landscape painting in 30 minutes. The man is f-ing magic. Now lets say that another artist makes the same painting, but using traditional painting techniques and it takes him 2 days.

Now, if someone where to say to me, "I think that Bob Ross's painting doesn't look as good as that other guy's painting" I think you would have an argument there that makes some sense. I'm sure you could point out that the leaves look more defined on the other guy's painting or it has more depth, or whatever. There are plenty of criteria for judging the quality of an image.

But what sense does it make to say that Bob Ross's painting isn't as good because he painted it in 30 minutes.


or hell, you know what, lets extrapolate this out to absurdity for the hell of it.

Lets say that they didn't use a stock photo for Tali. Lets say that it was done from scratch. But lets say that the person who did it is INHUMAN and was able to do it in 10 minutes. Does it matter that it only took him ten minutes? Because that seems pretty lazy to me, to only take 10 minutes to create a picture.