Its hard being a DC fan. (Rant)

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Does DC have their own "architect" orchestrating everything behind the scenes like Marvel has? I don't think so, which is why for now it'll still be interesting to see what the future films in the DC cinematic universe will be, the ones not directed by Zach Snyder.

Presumably Goyer is the 'master architect' for what it's worth. Considering DC is doing the opposite of Marvel, having one single main series with the occasional spin off, it's a rather grandiose term.

And I love the pre-52 DCAU. That shit is the definition of childhood for me. And what does DC do? Replace it with shit like Teen Titans Go and Son of Batman.

The DCAU was, and is, I imagine, the defining DC universe for an entire generation of viewers. It reached way more people then the comics ever have or will, and was just a blazing master piece. And honestly, I think it's the reason the new offerings from DC are so sad - Because the DCAU did everything their trying to do now, but it did it better then anything we're getting. Brutal Justice League? DCAU did it better. Government/The Public vs. JL? DCAU did it better. Building a universe where Superman/Martian Manhunter/Wonder Woman don't make 99% of the rest of the JL useless and redundant? The movies aren't even pretending to do that. Vigilantes vs. 'Heroic' heroes? They did that better to.

It's just frustrating to see DC fail so miserably at something they already aced. And while my personal preference would be a live action version of the Justice League (Unlimited would actually be my preference. Gimme some of them C listers, DC. I want to see the Vigilante and The Question slumming it up in some alley, not Superman leveling half a city), I understand that's not likely. But DC could at least look at what worked so well and borrow from it a little, instead of just coming at this from a completely different direction and failing.

As I've said before, DC seems hellbent on looking through 80 years of comics, movies, and animations, and picking the absolute worst versions of its universe and heroes it can find to build the movie-verse. And it hurts, bad. My only condolence is that whoever is running The Flash show has somehow gotten away with DC's equivalent of murder and injected some god damn joy into the universe.

Because sadly and no one wants to admit it, no one likes Superman.

Superman does have an image problem.

Then Jesse Eisenberg was casted as Lex Luthor and everyone wanted Bryan fuckin Cranston as Lex jsut because he's bald in Breaking Bad

While I'm personally not an advocate for Lex Cranston, it's a bit more than that. For one, he's an excellent actor, who's quite capable of being both charismatic and menacing. And for two, he was already kind of Lex Luthor in Breaking Bad, in a way - A terrifying borderline sociopath who does what he does because he's the best at it, and he want's to be the best. There's of course a lot of differences, but I do see some pretty easy cross over.

And this is opposed to Jesse Eisenberg, a man who didn't play Lex Luthor, at all. Most of the other characters in Dawn of Justice are at least somewhat similar to what we expect from them, at least close enough to be considered 'Elseworld' - Eisenberg's Luthor, however, isn't even close.

Then the movie comes out and people are treating it as a disaster of Mengele proportions. Even people on youtube who never reviews movies before suddenly reviews it. Appearently the prospect of a Batman and Superman movie was that big.

Of course it was that big. While the fight itself is a bit played out in the comics, most people don't actually read comics. This was going to be the first time the subject was going to be handled by a DC product with significant market penetration since The Batman series (Not to be confused with Batman: The Animated Series), and the first time ever on the big screen.

Honestly I feel none of this would have happened if no one said anything bad about Man of Steel. If no one criticized Man of Steel we would have had a Man of Steel 2 and a stand alone Batman movie.

Considering that Dawn of Justice is just Man of Steel (A movie I did actually like), just doubling down on the angst, the character count, and the bullshit, I doubt it. If anything, they ignored the criticisms leveled at Man of Steel, and basically told the audience 'You know the things you didn't like about that movie? Well, fuck you with the wide end of a rake, here's more of the same, only worse.'

And now I dread the possibility of DC changing the tone and direction of the movies because of that rumor of Snyder and WB having disputes and the directors for DC movies like Flash and Aquaman has left.

I really wouldn't worry about that. WB seems hellbent on driving down the path they've laid, and damn whatever anyone says. While they do seem to be taking a lighter focus in regards to the Suicide Squad movie, I think they're chasing Deadpool (Which is Fox) more than Marvel on that one. And I really doubt WB is foolish enough to think they can apply the Deadpool formula to the main line JL story.

Its so fuckin unfair that things I really want to see happen is being taken away from me. I want that Justice League movie with Zack Snyder's style and sadly the movie community is against it

You can hardly blame the movie community for how terribly Snyder, Goyer, and WB are.

(The very last part of the post)

Well Goyer is out and not credited as any screenwriter for JL movie according to wikipedia and IMDB:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0333060/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_League_Part_One

 

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

Does DC have their own "architect" orchestrating everything behind the scenes like Marvel has? I don't think so, which is why for now it'll still be interesting to see what the future films in the DC cinematic universe will be, the ones not directed by Zach Snyder.

Presumably Goyer is the 'master architect' for what it's worth. Considering DC is doing the opposite of Marvel, having one single main series with the occasional spin off, it's a rather grandiose term.

And I love the pre-52 DCAU. That shit is the definition of childhood for me. And what does DC do? Replace it with shit like Teen Titans Go and Son of Batman.

The DCAU was, and is, I imagine, the defining DC universe for an entire generation of viewers. It reached way more people then the comics ever have or will, and was just a blazing master piece. And honestly, I think it's the reason the new offerings from DC are so sad - Because the DCAU did everything their trying to do now, but it did it better then anything we're getting. Brutal Justice League? DCAU did it better. Government/The Public vs. JL? DCAU did it better. Building a universe where Superman/Martian Manhunter/Wonder Woman don't make 99% of the rest of the JL useless and redundant? The movies aren't even pretending to do that. Vigilantes vs. 'Heroic' heroes? They did that better to.

It's just frustrating to see DC fail so miserably at something they already aced. And while my personal preference would be a live action version of the Justice League (Unlimited would actually be my preference. Gimme some of them C listers, DC. I want to see the Vigilante and The Question slumming it up in some alley, not Superman leveling half a city), I understand that's not likely. But DC could at least look at what worked so well and borrow from it a little, instead of just coming at this from a completely different direction and failing.

As I've said before, DC seems hellbent on looking through 80 years of comics, movies, and animations, and picking the absolute worst versions of its universe and heroes it can find to build the movie-verse. And it hurts, bad. My only condolence is that whoever is running The Flash show has somehow gotten away with DC's equivalent of murder and injected some god damn joy into the universe.

Because sadly and no one wants to admit it, no one likes Superman.

Superman does have an image problem.

Then Jesse Eisenberg was casted as Lex Luthor and everyone wanted Bryan fuckin Cranston as Lex jsut because he's bald in Breaking Bad

While I'm personally not an advocate for Lex Cranston, it's a bit more than that. For one, he's an excellent actor, who's quite capable of being both charismatic and menacing. And for two, he was already kind of Lex Luthor in Breaking Bad, in a way - A terrifying borderline sociopath who does what he does because he's the best at it, and he want's to be the best. There's of course a lot of differences, but I do see some pretty easy cross over.

And this is opposed to Jesse Eisenberg, a man who didn't play Lex Luthor, at all. Most of the other characters in Dawn of Justice are at least somewhat similar to what we expect from them, at least close enough to be considered 'Elseworld' - Eisenberg's Luthor, however, isn't even close.

Then the movie comes out and people are treating it as a disaster of Mengele proportions. Even people on youtube who never reviews movies before suddenly reviews it. Appearently the prospect of a Batman and Superman movie was that big.

Of course it was that big. While the fight itself is a bit played out in the comics, most people don't actually read comics. This was going to be the first time the subject was going to be handled by a DC product with significant market penetration since The Batman series (Not to be confused with Batman: The Animated Series), and the first time ever on the big screen.

Honestly I feel none of this would have happened if no one said anything bad about Man of Steel. If no one criticized Man of Steel we would have had a Man of Steel 2 and a stand alone Batman movie.

Considering that Dawn of Justice is just Man of Steel (A movie I did actually like), just doubling down on the angst, the character count, and the bullshit, I doubt it. If anything, they ignored the criticisms leveled at Man of Steel, and basically told the audience 'You know the things you didn't like about that movie? Well, fuck you with the wide end of a rake, here's more of the same, only worse.'

And now I dread the possibility of DC changing the tone and direction of the movies because of that rumor of Snyder and WB having disputes and the directors for DC movies like Flash and Aquaman has left.

I really wouldn't worry about that. WB seems hellbent on driving down the path they've laid, and damn whatever anyone says. While they do seem to be taking a lighter focus in regards to the Suicide Squad movie, I think they're chasing Deadpool (Which is Fox) more than Marvel on that one. And I really doubt WB is foolish enough to think they can apply the Deadpool formula to the main line JL story.

Its so fuckin unfair that things I really want to see happen is being taken away from me. I want that Justice League movie with Zack Snyder's style and sadly the movie community is against it

You can hardly blame the movie community for how terribly Snyder, Goyer, and WB are.

(The very last part of the post)

Well Goyer is out and not credited as any screenwriter for JL movie according to wikipedia and IMDB:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0333060/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_League_Part_One

According to that wikipedia page, the writer now credited with the script just rewrote Goyer's script. Considering the same writer also rewrote Goyer's Dawn of Justice script, it seems like more of the same to me, and that even if Goyer's been canned, he's still probably responsible for the story for the next 4 or 5 movies.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

Holy shit. I think that 5 minute clip was more entertaining than the entirety of BvS.

 

[Something Amyss]

Weirdly enough,. I have no problem being a DC fan. As long as your value for "DC fan" doesn't include "must defend the bad or stupid things DC does," I don't see why it should be a problem for anyone.

DC/Warner have made movies that even most of their fans seem to hate, and deserve the criticism they get. Anyone feeling the need to defend the company should probably look inward and actually try and get to the bottom of why they feel differently. If it's brand loyalty, then you're not helping.

DC had the superior movies when I was a kid. Marvel was scrambling to make Daredevil and Thor work, while we had Batman and Superman that people actually liked. The DCAU was superior to almost every cartoon Marvel made to that point. Right now, DC is making crap, and even DC fans are largely enjoying Marvel movies. Strangely enough, people tend towards whatever's better. Or at least, more appealing.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

A major problem I have is when people hate Superman for being so powerful he's boring... then loving Batman to the point that they honestly believe that a human that can just really focus super well can beat literal Gods who can move faster than light and literally punch planets in half. It's not about the powers. It's not about even the story. It's about what you think of the character.

There are going to be people who just hate Superman. They hate him for being good and being likened to a Christ-like figure who tries to follow his own moral code. To them, that's not real. They'll hate him when he's written to be angsty, as even though they hate Superman's past, they hate him even more as being written as someone who he's not.

Then leave Superman alone.

There are people who love Superman for who he is. Not everyone is going to be as popular as the Flavor of the Moment.

In Marvel, you used to not be able bigger than Spider-man. The 80's came and went, and the 'uber good guy who's secretly a geek' cliche fell off. Wolverine became untouchable during the 90's. Oddly enough, that's when they realized people weren't paying that close attention to Parker, so they changed everything.

They made Parker a clone, so they could have an grittier hero wear the suit. He spectacularly failed. In the end, people begged for Peter to be the real Spider Man again. Wolverine might put butts into seats, but that doesn't mean we want a universe full of Wolverines. There will have to be other flavors for us to enjoy, especially those of us who think characters like Wolverine are boring.

Now Deadpool's the flavor. Are we going to make Wolverine more zany?

Lastly, people don't humanize Superman. They always portray him as a walking Ideal with God Powers. And that's completely the fault of the Writers. Not the character. You might scoff, but I've noticed a lot of Batman Fans who are Goku fans (cue the number of people who say they are batman fans but hate Goku). Goku is essentially the Asian Superman. And that character is saccharine-sweet and so beloved.

Man of Steel was going down a good path by showing what a child must have felt like going through all those powers at once. No one understanding, no one being able to teach you. Then Pa Kent.

... Pa Kent ruined Man of Steel for me because after all of it, Superman himself never felt earned. Pre-all of the dark and gritty, Clark always looked at his father's teachings and how was raised as a source of his morals, as what compelled him to don the cape and be selfless.

If you hate that Superman, I understand. But that's the Superman that has a place in our Media. Some of us absolutely love a character who is selfless. In fact, that's RARE nowadays. We don't re-imagine Bruce Wayne as someone who sought therapy after his parents died. Because they wouldn't care Batman. Then we can't re-imagine Superman as a moody git just because we think moody gits sell.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Weirdly enough,. I have no problem being a DC fan. As long as your value for "DC fan" doesn't include "must defend the bad or stupid things DC does," I don't see why it should be a problem for anyone.

DC/Warner have made movies that even most of their fans seem to hate, and deserve the criticism they get. Anyone feeling the need to defend the company should probably look inward and actually try and get to the bottom of why they feel differently. If it's brand loyalty, then you're not helping.

DC had the superior movies when I was a kid. Marvel was scrambling to make Daredevil and Thor work, while we had Batman and Superman that people actually liked. The DCAU was superior to almost every cartoon Marvel made to that point. Right now, DC is making crap, and even DC fans are largely enjoying Marvel movies. Strangely enough, people tend towards whatever's better. Or at least, more appealing.

From my experiance I have seen stupider and badder things from DC than these 2 movies.

Nothing Zack Snyder does will be as awful as Batman and Robin. Or the worst Comic Books produced.

 

[DefunctTheory]

There are people who love Superman for who he is. Not everyone is going to be as popular as the Flavor of the Moment.

Are you implying that every other super hero is a fad flavor?

Now Deadpool's the flavor. Are we going to make Wolverine more zany?

What?

Lastly, people don't humanize Superman. They always portray him as a walking Ideal with God Powers. And that's completely the fault of the Writers. Not the character.

Actually, it is a problem with the character, particularly when you're forcing him to live with everyone else. It's virtually impossible to make other characters useful when your character is an immortal, physical god. You already pointed that out with Batman above.

You might scoff, but I've noticed a lot of Batman Fans who are Goku fans (cue the number of people who say they are batman fans but hate Goku). Goku is essentially the Asian Superman. And that character is saccharine-sweet and so beloved.

I'll do more then scoff - I'll call you out. That's horse shit. There's no logical reason why Batman fans would be more likely to be Goku fans, besides the typical overlap that occurs between 'geekdoms.' But please, offer some evidence. I don't find the passive aggressive 'cue the people' remark particularly compelling.

Oh, and count me as one of the 'number of people.'

 

[shrekfan246]

I didn't even hate the New 52, The Flash and Wonder Woman N52 runs made me fans of the characters. So it hurt so much that now, those two series are the worst the N52 universe has to offer. Well, after the Teen Titans.

I'm enjoying Teen Titans more now than when Scott Lobdell initially had it, though since #10-12 or so it feels like it's been treading water with nowhere to swim. I couldn't get into Wonder Woman before the Finches got it because I really, really don't like Cliff Chiang's art, but after the swap I followed it just as regularly as anything else and it was only with about the last five issues of that one I've been feeling it's lost the plot. Of course, given the fact that DC is apparently basically soft-rebooting everything again, it could just be that all of their writers have said "fuck it" because any story threads they've built up in the past year or so don't even matter anymore. I'm pretty amazed that Scott Snyder even managed to finish his run like he did (sad about that, too, since his run on Batman is still probably one of my favorite comic lines that I've read so far).

I think we've already had an exchange about the sorry state of The Flash, though. Ugh, what a sad time that is.

Somewhat OT: People who complain about Superman tend to confuse me. Complaints about "modern" interpretations of him usually focus on how, like with a lot of DC's other stuff, it's really grimdark and depressing and that's "not how Superman is". But then whenever there's any glimpse of Superman being his "normal" self (read: Silver Age Gary Stu) everyone is whining about how he's a perfect little boy scout who can do no wrong and never gets beaten at anything he does. I get the impression that the vast majority of people who have been criticizing Superman over the past few years haven't actually looked at anything that's been made about Superman for more than roughly five or ten minutes.

It's not like there's nothing to criticize, I just can't help thinking that a lot of people simply hate the idea of Superman while at the same time they're unable to let go of what's supposed to embody that idea based on archaic stereotypes from decades ago.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Are you implying that every other super hero is a fad flavor?

...

Actually, it is a problem with the character, particularly when you're forcing him to live with everyone else. It's virtually impossible to make other characters useful when your character is an immortal, physical god. You already pointed that out with Batman above.

...

I'll do more then scoff - I'll call you out. That's horse shit. There's no logical reason why Batman fans would be more likely to be Goku fans, besides the typical overlap that occurs between 'geekdoms.' But please, offer some evidence. I don't find the passive aggressive 'cue the people' remark particularly compelling.

Oh, and count me as one of the 'number of people.'

What I'm stating is that not every superhero will reach Batman/Spiderman/Wolverine levels of hype. And that's fine. My favorite X-man is Colossus. There will never be a solo movie for him. He won't put butts in seats at a theater. And that's ok. But to tweak him to make him more of what people think is 'cool' right now is a waste.

Even if a few people like him more if he becomes edgier, he's not Colossus. He's a re-imagining. Then what's the point? Make a new character. You gain a few, but more than likely will lose a few who liked Colossus from the beginning. More than likely, it will just be a zero-sum adjustment.

Same with Superman. You'll gain a few who likes the new 'backbone', you'll lose others who thinks he's not in tune with his character.

And the 'problem' that you see is one of his most defining points: He wants to be a normal guy. He wants to live among us. He was just chosen not to be normal. If you give everyone Michael Jackson's level of fame, not everyone will react to it the same way. Superman isn't a warrior. He's a man who is to be a God and he doesn't want it. He would rather talk out problems instead of fight it out. But he routinely goes against his nature because situations demand it.

And Batman and lower power level heroes aren't 'useless' around him. Everyone has a place. Superman is Galactic Level Threats. Batman can handle a city. Every incident needs protection. You don't Bring a Nuke to kill a fly, and you're not taking a knife to take on a Panzer Tank.

Show you evidence of what I already stated that something I've "Noticed". What would be acceptable? Signed affidavits from my friends and associates? If having a different opinion or group of experiences from you has somehow offended you, let me humbly apologize.

But I will stick by with what I've experienced in my life. I know multiple people who hate Superman because he's overpowered, love Goku because he's the strongest there is in his universe and will only get stronger, and love Batman because they consider him the best character ever in fiction. I never said there's a reason for it. I never talked about a likelihood coming from some circumstance. I said "I've noticed".

 

[Objectable]

It's hard being a DC fan cause DC Is run by a bunch of fucking idiots.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

It's hard being a DC fan cause DC Is run by a bunch of fucking idiots.

And boom goes the dynamite. This right here, is probably the most concise reason for DC fans having trouble staying on their chosen path.

 

[Zenja]

As a Marvel Fanboy, I will say that the MCU isn't perfect but DC can't get anything off the ground because they can'tr grasp 1 concept. Superheroes are fun. All through the 1980s and 90s only 2 superheroes were popular enough to get movies and their movies only served to make them more popular. Those being Superman and Batman. What they had with BvS was the opportunity to exploit that by giving us a movie we all have been wanting for literally decades. Batman and Superman fighting side by side with some rivalry thrown in, but instead they made it a grudge match where they fight over who has killed more people and is thus more evil.

I don't care how big of a DC fan you are, surely you can agree that is a terrible idea for the first Batman/Superman crossover big screen release. DC keeps saying that they aren't trying to be Marvel but this movie is proof they are. They are measuring their moves by Marvel. They shoved so much crap into that movie it became incoherent and fractured narratively just so they could fast forward into the JLA movie without having to set up a proper structure. If they wanted to do that, they should have just made the JLA movie and back-filled OR structured it slowly as Marvel did. Instead they said lets rush the stricture and created a garbled mess of about 3 or 4 storylines all crammed together however they could make them fit. Just so that there is a DC equivalent to Civil War and Marvel's upcoming Infinity War. Similar to the way Bug's Life and Antz released at the same time or Finding Nemo and Fish Tale. They want to piggyback.

If they arent trying to be Marvel they would have not rushed all those things and taken their time instead of trying to get caught up as fast as possible. They are more worried about the cash flow around comic movies right now rather than seeing the amazing things Marvel is doing for its fans. My guess is they think Marvel's success is from throwing a bunch of properties at the big screen, not in how they are doing it.

From my experiance I have seen stupider and badder things from DC than these 2 movies.

Nothing Zack Snyder does will be as awful as Batman and Robin. Or the worst Comic Books produced.

Careful now, Batman was about to stab Superman to death but didn't at the last second because of his mothers name. I am not leaving a part of the plot out to make that sound ridiculous. It was simply because their mom had the same name. There is no deep meaning there. That level of writing may as well have them hold hands and skip to where Lex is. There is a lot of stuff in that movie that didn't make sense. All it was missing to be comparable to Batman and Robin was flashy colors, because it sure held the one liners, they were just overly grim instead of cheeky.

Zack Snyder certainly has the imagery angle down and I consider him to be ideal for the cinematography. However, Nolan or whoever is doing the screenwriting is butchering any potential involved in the project. Dark Knight Rises was contrived and so is this movie. I personally think that Nolan has contempt for Batman and is taking it out on the fans. I didn't mind Man of Steel and found it pretty good.

If DC would slow down and form some kind of structure behind their releases, things would be much more enjoyable. But I can't make myself like something just because I like the source material. I love X-Men, but I hated the first 3 movies. But I hated them because I love the source material so much what I got was disappointing Wolverine pandering.

 

[Stewie Plisken]

It was simply because their mom had the same name. There is no deep meaning there.

Actually, it was because Batman previously viewed Superman as inhuman, which plays into Superman's two-movie character arc, where he struggles with perceiving himself as human (alien in the first, god in the second), until Batman spares him, finds friends that stand by his side and finds his anchor in Lois.

I mean, I don't want to get into an argument over the movie, they certainly could've handled it better, I'm just saying; they were going for something with this. It wasn't a superficial resolution.

 

[Zenja]

I can respect that view Stewie, but for me and most people I talk to - it just comes off as not killing someone ONLY because their moms share the same name. It feels hollow as the movie didn't really touch on Batman viewing Supes as less than human but rather simply a murderer. Or worse, a God which would give his mission an air of superiority complex. One that once he saw Supes as human he lost the thrill of killing something more powerful than himself. The point seems so vague to me that I can spin it however I want it as the movie doesn't reinforce any of these concepts.

A big problem with the movie is it feels like it wants to make all of these deep correlations but doesn't follow through on any of them making them all fall short and feel hollow and pointless. A failure of execution I will agree on. I will even say that the movie had some themes worth exploring, they just never did.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Also I like how you use that one image of New 52 superman to paint him as an angsty asshole. And not show images like this:

Christ that was one my least favourite directions in New52. He's still an angsty asshole who thanks to the greatest superpower of all (the writer's favour) has punched well above his fucking weight in terms of romantic partners. Mind I'm bias against Superman and Wonder Woman as a romantic couple so take that statement for what it is.

 

[syl3r]

the big problem with dc is just that they want what marvel has, and want it right fucking now. but marvel built it up over time. each movie added bits of interconnectivity without loosing focus on the movie at hand. then avengers tied it all together.
dc just wants to start with the avengers, but that doesnt work. avengers might not have floped, but it would be FAR away from its success if the other movies to build the characters didnt come first.
the buildup of the fight between sups and bats was just bad. i kinda can see batmans point being afraid of a godlike creature that destroyed a city while saying it fights for justice. but why does superman hate batman? he does the exact same thing as batman. superman killed the guy that threatened lois in the beginning (you cant tell me you can survive beeing kicked through a stonewall like that and live). and all he seems to care about is his image and lois. having lex "jr" to force him to fight batman was just a reaction of poor buildup of motivation.
in my opinion it would have been much better if superman had a real reason to fight batman and the threat of doomsday overshadowing their fight so they have to cooperate to beat him.
also, why the fuck did superman use the spear? wouldnt it have been much easier to give the spear to wonderwoman? a superhero that seems just as strong as himself but isnt weakened by superman?

and dont get me startet on the whole death of superman premis..... as if he would stay dead after 2 movies. his death might have had an impact after the whole justice league got established and all fight some cracy villain together. but like this its jsut too comicbookcliche.

so, the studio should change their way of buildup. build characters first, not the roster. but sadly, they will just see it floped (critically) and think its cause of the tone

 

[Overhead]

I'm a massive Superman fan and I was really disappointed by MoS, to the extent I haven't even bothered to go to see BvS.

DC have completely the wrong tone for the MoS movies. Superman isn't Batman. He's not meant to be dark and angsty and troubled. He faces conflict, but he's a symbol of hope and goodness. The type of story they tried to tell, with him allowing his parents to die and wallowing in angst and Metropolis being destroyed as some massive disaster porn spectacle just does not fit him. The Superman on display there is not the Superman I grew up reading. He's not the kind of person who'd let someone, anyone, die to protect his secret identity.

They're trying to get the Batman mould and make every other character fit it, even when it isn't appropriate.

DCs comics fares have been fairly disappointing since the superhero movie boom began over a decade ago. Constantine? Catwoman? Superman Returns? Green Lantern? Jonah Hex? Some of them I've thought were good (but not outstanding) personally, but they've all fared poorly at the box office in comparison to what Marvel have managed. Batman is their only real success story and I think they don't know what else to do except try and mimic it.

 

[ecoho]

The thing I hate about most regarding Batman v Superman is that how much of a self fufilling prophecy this ended up becoming.

What could have been simply a Man of Steel 2 became this. It started with just bringing in Batman for damage control after the "failure" of Man of Steel. Because sadly and no one wants to admit it, no one likes Superman. If you end up having Superman doing exactly what you expect Superman to do, everyone will complain that he is too OP and too one dimensional to be an interesting character.

Then they showed Wonder Woman and called the movie Dawn of Justice and that title got mocked aswell.

Then Jesse Eisenberg was casted as Lex Luthor and everyone wanted Bryan fuckin Cranston as Lex jsut because he's bald in Breaking Bad

Then one trailer revealed Doomsday which honestly his design does not look as terrible as the earlier concept designs they were going with:

https://40.media.tumblr.com/dea14715627a4c2afc37766c32996806/tumblr_o52bswMSj91rov369o6_1280.jpg

Then the movie comes out and people are treating it as a disaster of Mengele proportions. Even people on youtube who never reviews movies before suddenly reviews it. Appearently the prospect of a Batman and Superman movie was that big.

Honestly I feel none of this would have happened if no one said anything bad about Man of Steel. If no one criticized Man of Steel we would have had a Man of Steel 2 and a stand alone Batman movie.

And now Civil War came out and of course people are saying this is how BvS should have been.

And now I dread the possibility of DC changing the tone and direction of the movies because of that rumor of Snyder and WB having disputes and the directors for DC movies like Flash and Aquaman has left.

No just no keep the tone the way it is other wise if it ends up being exactly like the MCU it will be increadibly redundant I mean there is already a Superhero bubble so why should DC end up looking more like the MCU in the exact tone and look?

I just want my Zack Snyder DC movies because he has talent he knows how to make Comic Boook movies he proclaims he grew up reading comic books and I believe him and he makes action that is 10x better then any movie I have seen in theaters. And he is NOT MICHAEL BAY!!

Its so fuckin unfair that things I really want to see happen is being taken away from me. I want that Justice League movie with Zack Snyder's style and sadly the movie community is against it

its very simple they do great TV shows with good actors who fit the characters, and then don't use them for their movies......and they wonder why they keep getting bad reviews.

 

[Ira Levinas]

I agree.

The things I don't like about the movie feel like pandering to the audience:
"Perry White commands Clark to do an article about a sports team for Gotham, so he can go there and see the consequences of Batman's actions by himself, but no, instead he watch it on the news while shirtless".
Why? Because it would make the movie too long? It would give it too many subplots?