"It's OK to steal if nobody knows."

[ChildishLegacy]

Morals don't leap out of "somebody knowing" xD, in theory, they should be in place for every decision you make. Stealing without somebody knowing is just not being punished for doing wrong, it doesn't become wrong along side the issue of punishment, it becomes wrong, and THEREFORE punishment will be issued upon somebody finding out (hopefully).

 

[Jakub324]

Actually, she guards her possessions jealously. Of course I wouldn't, say, steal someone's car, whether they'd know or not, because it's about a thousand times more valuable than a DVD and any damage would be expensive to pay for and awkward to explain away. No, I'd only take something of little value, and even then only if I knew I'd be able to return it quickly and without any damage being done to it.

You wouldn't steal a car? But you are defending stealing her DVD?

This video is appropriate:

On a more serious note I would say that borrowing her DVD is an incredibly grey area in this case. But if, as you have implied would protest against your using the DVD while she isn't there, then it is wrong. What would have happened if you accidentally broke the DVD, or scratched it? Even though nothing did go wrong you could not guarantee that the DVD would return in 100% the condition you took it, so it was dishonest and disrespectful of you to do so.

My original point was that if the borrowing/theft/whatever you want to call it only affects anyone in a positive way, how could it possibly bad?
EDIT: Actually, she wouldn't care if I borrowed it, I was just using it as an example. Assume she wasn't around to be asked, so it had to either be taken or left without her input.

 

[Patrick Buck]

Still stealing. If someone has earned somthing and you use it, risking it, without their permission, how can that be a good thing? If someone develops a game, and begins selling it, It's their game. It's their RIGHT to sell it. Taking it without paying for it is stealing. Plain and simple.

 

[Phlakes]

The whole point of morals is that it doesn't matter if anyone knows. In popular opinion (or what's generally accepted, if you prefer) is that stealing is morally wrong. Whether it affects someone or not, it's still stealing and still falls under that moral.

 

[manic_depressive13]

I think a more pertinent question is "Do I care if it's okay if nobody knows"

[sub][sub][sub]Disclaimer: I do not condone theft or any criminal misconduct in any way, shape or form, regardless of the prospect of being held accountable.[/sub][/sub][/sub]

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

If you put the item back before they know it was gone and it is in the exact same condition as before, it is in no way wrong. They are not harmed in ANY way, be it physical or psychological.

And if someone says it IS wrong, equate them to the insane man who complains that every night someone steals all his stuff and replaces it with exact copies.

 

[Twilight_guy]

No, it's not okay. If you steal when there are no consequences it means that your true personality lacks the kind of moral to not steal and lacking that morals is not a good thing in my book. A wise man once said that what's important is what you do when you know that no one will ever know.

 

[lord.jeff]

You're mixing up words your not stealing so much as burrowing without permission, it's still a dick move, unless you know the person well enough that they wont care then you should probably take the time to make a 2 minute phone call and ask them.

 

[Dastardly]

This is something I believe in. If you take something of someone else's, it clearly hasn't affected them.
What do you think?

EDIT: I never said I do steal; I don't need to. For example: Say I have some friends coming over, and we want to watch a film. Maybe my sister, who is out for a few days, has a DVD we all like, and I go into her room and take it, then we watch it, then I put it back before she notices it's missing. She hasn't been looking for it. It's being borrowed hasn't affected her at all. See?

There's a difference between "has minimal/no consequence" and "is okay." What you need to be asking is this: If she was there, and you did that, how would she have acted? Would she be thrilled you went through her stuff without permission? Would you be okay if she went through your things without asking, to get something she wanted?

(And no, I don't mean the DVD. Maybe you wouldn't care about that particular item, and that's why you think it's "okay." But I bet there's something of yours that you would prefer people not borrow without asking.)

The only way to know how she would feel about it is to ask her. If she says it's cool, THEN it's cool. If she says, "Next time, ask," or just gets mad, then you know that just doing it without permission ISN'T cool. If it belongs to someone else, they should at least have the opportunity to say yes. Or no.

Your logic of "What they don't know can't hurt me" is not a basis for any definition of "okay" or "not okay." It's disgustingly self-serving.

 

[Durgiun]

It's OK to steal if the victim is a rich **** who doesn't like to share.

 

[craftomega]

Lol I love all the anger and internet pride in this thread.

Ok lets say you steal from Microsoft. "Huh how can I do that with out downloading?"

Well guess what when you steal there products from a store the store it self does not pay, microsoft pays. Since for them to make the product is minimal cost and for the store to buy it is essesive cost, its the best system.

So you have now stolen a game from a company who makes a shit ton o cash. Is it wrong? Well why can Microsoft steal from people and you cant? Why is what your doing wrong?

Is because something is illegal its wrong? This comes down to each persons moral judgment, hell it comes down to sociaties judgement. No one can say anything is wrong no questions asked with out being a hypocrite and/or a moron.

So if you steal something with no consequences of any kind (Other then you gaining something) is it wrong?

I still love the the hypocritical moral out rage on this thread. When most people here have probally pirated.

Edit* Lets look at a common issue in Canada's great white north. Innuit hunters are semi-commonly put into prison for poaching.

Thats the simple truth. But there is something wrong with that statement. Yes they were poaching, yes they "broke the law". But did they have criminal intent? Guess what that answer is.

Its NO, the killed animals out of season to survive. Technicly it is illegal. But is it wrong to want to live?

 

[schiz0phren1c]

"actually she guards her possessions jealously"
hmmm,would that be because someone in her family has no regard for other people's privacy or property?
I'm not saying you are a dick...but you certainly come across like one sparky...

 

[bojackx]

Once again I Quote UK legislation:

Section One of the Theft Act 1968 Defines theft as:

"A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and "thief" and "steal" shall be construed accordingly."

So even if no-one see's you, its theft. No its not OK to steal.

I've highlighted the key word for your convenience. Damn, I keep being really vague about what I mean. Must learn to stop doing that.

So in theory, you could steal something with the intention of returning it in 20 years time and it's not theft? Seems like a pretty silly hole.

But yeah, don't steal things. The example you described is just borrowing from your sister. If you did that with a stranger's car then that's wrong, and would be considered theft.

 

[Jakub324]

This is something I believe in. If you take something of someone else's, it clearly hasn't affected them.
What do you think?

EDIT: I never said I do steal; I don't need to. For example: Say I have some friends coming over, and we want to watch a film. Maybe my sister, who is out for a few days, has a DVD we all like, and I go into her room and take it, then we watch it, then I put it back before she notices it's missing. She hasn't been looking for it. It's being borrowed hasn't affected her at all. See?

There's a difference between "has minimal/no consequence" and "is okay." What you need to be asking is this: If she was there, and you did that, how would she have acted? Would she be thrilled you went through her stuff without permission? Would you be okay if she went through your things without asking, to get something she wanted?

(And no, I don't mean the DVD. Maybe you wouldn't care about that particular item, and that's why you think it's "okay." But I bet there's something of yours that you would prefer people not borrow without asking.)

The only way to know how she would feel about it is to ask her. If she says it's cool, THEN it's cool. If she says, "Next time, ask," or just gets mad, then you know that just doing it without permission ISN'T cool. If it belongs to someone else, they should at least have the opportunity to say yes. Or no.

Your logic of "What they don't know can't hurt me" is not a basis for any definition of "okay" or "not okay." It's disgustingly self-serving.

I've said this before, but it looks like I'll have to say it again: I don't need to steal. I have everything I want, and what if I see something I want? I'll freakin' buy it, that's what. This is just part of what I believe. Think of it as an extension of my views on abortion: it's OK because the baby does not know it's alive, and so loses nothing in death - a death, though regrettable, that will enable the mother's quality of life to remain as high as possible. Believe it or not, those two pieces of logic are connected.
Oh, and it would be more correct to say "What they don't know can hurt nobody." Sorry, couldn't stop typing without correcting that.

 

[DEAD34345]

I'd agree, sort of. If by "nobody knows" you actually mean "nobody is affected", anyway.

It all comes down to how you view morality. Are certain actions inherently good/bad, or is it the consequences of the actions that makes them good/bad?

Personally, I'd say that the latter is the case. So if you have some way of knowing that a person is not going to be affected by the theft in any way (as in your example), then it's fine by me.

 

[Jakub324]

"actually she guards her possessions jealously"
hmmm,would that be because someone in her family has no regard for other people's privacy or property?
I'm not saying you are a dick...but you certainly come across like one sparky...

She doesn't actually, it just suited the hypothetical scenario to assume she did I(edit: just as well, as things disappear from my room and only reappear when I asked where they went, knowing full well they were on her bedroom floor). Anyway, I do regard her right to privacy. Nobody stashes DVDs or books or whatever in their room, they're all right next to the TV, so why in the name of god would I need to "invade her privacy"?

 

[Jakub324]

Once again I Quote UK legislation:

Section One of the Theft Act 1968 Defines theft as:

"A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and "thief" and "steal" shall be construed accordingly."

So even if no-one see's you, its theft. No its not OK to steal.

I've highlighted the key word for your convenience. Damn, I keep being really vague about what I mean. Must learn to stop doing that.

So in theory, you could steal something with the intention of returning it in 20 years time and it's not theft? Seems like a pretty silly hole.

But yeah, don't steal things. The example you described is just borrowing from your sister. If you did that with a stranger's car then that's wrong, and would be considered theft.

No, I'm more talking about keeping it for less than a day. Stealing a car is actual theft, and I see it as wrong, just like everybody else.

 

[Vykrel]

EDIT: I never said I do steal; I don't need to. For example: Say I have some friends coming over, and we want to watch a film. Maybe my sister, who is out for a few days, has a DVD we all like, and I go into her room and take it, then we watch it, then I put it back before she notices it's missing. She hasn't been looking for it. It's being borrowed hasn't affected her at all. See?

you should have asked a different question in the title.

borrowing is NOT the same as stealing. stealing is taking something that isnt yours without the intention of giving it back. also, i dont think your family members would be too angry about you borrowing something of theirs.

heres a scenario that actually answers the question in the title: Jay Leno owns like over a hundred cars, so he probably wouldnt notice if just one went missing. it would still be wrong for me to steal one, even if he never noticed.