I've found that I really prefer personal stories as I grow older...

[Kolby Jack]

Back when I was a kid (Not that long ago, but long enough for me to no longer consider myself a child in any respect) I could tear into lore and universes like nobody's business. I'd rattle off detailed histories from Halo, I knew every detail you could know from the various RPG's games I played and movies I watched, and so on, to the point where I appreciated characters more for their effects on the universe rather than for their own personal idenities and motivations. Characters were incidental to the universe, which is where the real story lay.

Now that I've grown I find myself far more interested by personal stories. I hear people argue Halo 4's story isn't that good because "oh, the Didact was a weak villain and the Covenant were just fanatics again and blah blah" and I think "... So? The game wasn't ABOUT those things, it was almost entirely about the personal relationship between Cortana and Master Chief. The galactic conflict was just a backdrop used as a catalyst to that relationship, which was BEAUTIFULLY written." Or that The Lord of the Rings trilogy (to keep this discussion from being solely about games) isn't a great adaptation because it leaves out a lot of the detail and changes certain aspects that are apaprently KEY to the story. Meanwhile I'm sitting here thinking it's a PERFECT adaptation because the actors masterfully performed their characters and the bonds between them could be felt intensely throughout the movie, especially the companionship between Frodo and Sam. It's also why a believable romance has become a surefire way to get me invested in the story when in my younger days I basically ignored that stuff except for it's most shallow elements. I'm still interested in the lore and stuff, but now it's the characters that are integral to the story and the universe has become incidental.

I don't want to say my tastes have "matured" because obviously plenty of adults find lore and universe-building as fascinating as ever. I just think it's interesting how my fundemental perceptions and preferences when it comes to good story-telling have changed over time. Have any of you guys noticed a change like this as you grow older?

 

[Fappy]

I love both lore and characters, and don't really favor focusing on one more than the other. For example, I love The Elder Scrolls because I find its world and lore fascinating and rich and pay little attention to the characters. Conversely, I love Berserk because of its well written and relatable characters, despite the setting being rather plane and the lore being borrowed from H.P. Lovecraft, the Bible and Hellraiser among other things. Then there's Mass Effect, which strikes a healthy combination of compelling characters and deep, unique lore.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Well, there're only so many times before saving Mushroom Kingdom and foiling Team Rocket gets boring.

 

[Kolby Jack]

I love both lore and characters, and don't really favor focusing on one more than the other. For example, I love The Elder Scrolls because I find its world and lore fascinating and rich and pay little attention to the characters. Conversely, I love Berserk because of its well written and relatable characters, despite the setting being rather plane and the lore being borrowed from H.P. Lovecraft, the Bible and Hellraiser among other things. Then there's Mass Effect, which strikes a healthy combination of compelling characters and deep, unique lore.

Thinking about the Elder Scrolls is actually what got me onto this realization. I find TES lore to be rather impenetrable, myself. At least when you go REALLY deep into it, like in to the stuff that isn't necessarily confirmed canon but is treated as such by TES lore "scholars." Finding out that the prevailing notion is that the entire setting is the "dream of a dead god" really killed a lot of the fascination I had with it, because that's basically annihilating the fourth wall and admitting it's a work of fiction IN-UNIVERSE. I can't stand it. That's saying nothing against those who like it, though. It's just not for me.

 

[Fappy]

I love both lore and characters, and don't really favor focusing on one more than the other. For example, I love The Elder Scrolls because I find its world and lore fascinating and rich and pay little attention to the characters. Conversely, I love Berserk because of its well written and relatable characters, despite the setting being rather plane and the lore being borrowed from H.P. Lovecraft, the Bible and Hellraiser among other things. Then there's Mass Effect, which strikes a healthy combination of compelling characters and deep, unique lore.

Think about the Elder Scrolls is actually what got me onto this realization. I find TES lore to be rather impenetrable, myself. At least when you go REALLY deep into it, like in to the stuff that isn't necessarily confirmed canon but is treated as such by TES lore "scholars." Finding out that the prevailing notion is that the entire setting is the "dream of a dead god" really killed a lot of the fascination I had with it, because that's basically annihilating the fourth wall and admitting it's a work of fiction IN-UNIVERSE. I can't stand it. That's sayiong nothing against those who like it, though. It's just not for me.

The thing I find fascinating about TES lore is its ability to support an infinite amount of perspectives, on several different levels. While the "dream of the dead god" scenario may be true for some, it may not be for others. It's a similar concept to how the gods are handled. They exist in multiple forms because different cultures have different names and stories for them. I wouldn't treat any one interpretation of the lore as a strict canon, as that's really not the point of TES lore to begin with. Those "scholars" may have some good points to back up their theories, but they're still just theories. TES lore is supposed to be an open book with limitless possibilities. I don't think there is any one answer for anything, and that extends to the root of the lore itself and where it all begins.

EDIT: TES lore is based on the concept of changing ideas and the reconstruction of memories/evolution of myths over time and across cultures. There shouldn't be any one answer to any question. Dragonbreaks demonstrate this quite well, I feel.

 

[Kolby Jack]

I love both lore and characters, and don't really favor focusing on one more than the other. For example, I love The Elder Scrolls because I find its world and lore fascinating and rich and pay little attention to the characters. Conversely, I love Berserk because of its well written and relatable characters, despite the setting being rather plane and the lore being borrowed from H.P. Lovecraft, the Bible and Hellraiser among other things. Then there's Mass Effect, which strikes a healthy combination of compelling characters and deep, unique lore.

Thinking about the Elder Scrolls is actually what got me onto this realization. I find TES lore to be rather impenetrable, myself. At least when you go REALLY deep into it, like in to the stuff that isn't necessarily confirmed canon but is treated as such by TES lore "scholars." Finding out that the prevailing notion is that the entire setting is the "dream of a dead god" really killed a lot of the fascination I had with it, because that's basically annihilating the fourth wall and admitting it's a work of fiction IN-UNIVERSE. I can't stand it. That's saying nothing against those who like it, though. It's just not for me.

The thing I find fascinating about TES lore is its ability to support an infinite amount of perspectives, on several different levels. While the "dream of the dead god" scenario may be true for some, it may not be for others. It's a similar concept to how the gods are handled. They exist in multiple forms because different cultures have different names and stories for them. I wouldn't treat any one interpretation of the lore as a strict canon, as that's really not the point of TES lore to begin with. Those "scholars" may have some good points to back up their theories, but they're still just theories. TES lore is supposed to be an open book with limitless possibilities. I don't think there is any one answer for anything, and that extends to the root of the lore itself and where it all begins.

EDIT: TES lore is based on the concept of changing ideas and the reconstruction of memories/evolution of myths over time and across cultures. There shouldn't be any one answer to any question. Dragonbreaks demonstrate this quite well, I feel.

Which brings me back to the root of the discussion: having a canon where a panoply of explanations exist makes the whole story from the player characters perspective seem much less meaningful. It's a perfectly valid way of handling it, and I even find the idea of almost all the endings of Daggerfall happening at once kind of neat, but the bearing most of this has on the story I experience as the player-character in the game is basically nil.

 

[TWRule]

As far back as I can remember, I've only really cared about the personal conflicts and relationships characters had in games; sure I found some of the settings fascinating too, but only if the characters were also interesting (or it was the sort of game where the character was just an avatar for me, and it was me that was getting personally invested with my dealings in that world).

This has only become more apparent as my tastes are now - I look right through mountains of 'lore' that a game or film or whatever wants to shove in my face and look for the substantive personal stories, if any. Chances are I'm not going to enjoy a work if those elements aren't treated as centrally important (and token cliche love stories don't count). Basically, it's only from those elements that I feel a work stands to teach me something about my own self and life - no amount of 'lore' will tend to do that.

 

[The Wykydtron]

Yeah I love character focused stories even if a setting and overarching plot is or is not strong on their own. It's why I have a fondness for good Visual Novels and you have no idea how happy I am now that Steam has started to adopt some of the more well known ones. The dream is to get Umineko on Steam and part 1 of Higurashi is on there already. I mean VNs have little to no conventional gameplay to fall back on most of the time so the story, setting, soundtrack and characters need to be good for it to even sell.

Hell you would not believe how excited I was when the Steam front page had Grisaia no Kaijitsu The Fruit of Grisaia on it all of a sudden, the trilogy is regarded as some of the best VNs around and even though I have it downloaded from elsewhere already, I bought it on Steam regardless. I don't care about the tits being censored for the Steam version either, Amane is worst girl so good riddance. If people buy it we might even see an official translation of the other two games which not even the VN community has finished doing yet. Two more games of Juicy Yuuji would be amazing.

Persona 4 is still best game of all time though, it's a super awesome mystery story based around a small(ish) group of characters and their inner struggles with who they are. Dungeons being the physical representation of a soon to be party member's darker side is fucking genius. Around say two thirds of the game in, the story throws up a wall of every single person you have ever met in the game and tells you to pick the culprit based on all the information you gathered so far and does not let you continue until you do. The game doesn't just solve the mystery for you when progressing the plot which is great.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Hmmm...dunno if I'd say I prefer them, but decent character stuff can definitely make up for a rubbish overall story.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

Why not both?

Joking aside, I think if I needed to choose one over the other, I would prefer character driven stories as well, because it's just damn hard to write a believable world, forget a universe. There are just so many factors to not keep everything a caricature in most cases. That being said, I do love how readers try to fill in the blanks, give them the starting points of a world and they will build it for you.

While I like learning about an individual character's motivations and seeing the chemistry grow between a group as they go through whatever the story decides to put them through, I have a hard time getting into the romance aspect. Often it just feels forced, there's no natural chemistry so things like sex scenes [footnote]unless specifically played up to be sex for the sake of sex[/footnote] feel obligatory.

 

[JemothSkarii]

Hell you would not believe how excited I was when the Steam front page had Grisaia no Kaijitsu The Fruit of Grisaia on it all of a sudden, the trilogy is regarded as some of the best VNs around and even though I have it downloaded from elsewhere already, I bought it on Steam regardless. I don't care about the tits being censored for the Steam version either, Amane is worst girl so good riddance. If people buy it we might even see an official translation of the other two games which not even the VN community has finished doing yet. Two more games of Juicy Yuuji would be amazing.

Good news: There was a Kickstarter not long ago which translated not only The Fruit of Grisaia, but will translate Meikyuu, Rakuen AND Magical Girl Michiru. So all we have to do is wait.

I disagree about Amane being worst girl, but that is a whole other can of worms.

OT: I love both. I love sprawling worlds and I love the adventures of characters within them. I personally like to make worlds then write about the every day lives of people within them. Not only is it great practice, it's fun as hell. I don't think it has much to do with age, merely preference.

 

[Juan Regular]

I had a similar thought while playing The Witcher 3. Having read the books and knowing all the backstory and character development that happened in them, I got so into the story of the game and didn't even realize how small its scope is compared to a lot of other RPG's. It's all about the characters, not about saving the world, and these days I much prefer a personal story like that to tons of epic battles.

 

[Guffe]

I'm similar but with books.
I loved Lotr, Song of Ice and Fire, Ilkka Remes books (Finnish author), Warhammer40K stuff etc.
These days I'd rather pick an autobiography over a great world almost anyday, really love reading about peoples livs and what they've been (or claim to have been) thorugh

 

[The Wykydtron]

Hell you would not believe how excited I was when the Steam front page had Grisaia no Kaijitsu The Fruit of Grisaia on it all of a sudden, the trilogy is regarded as some of the best VNs around and even though I have it downloaded from elsewhere already, I bought it on Steam regardless. I don't care about the tits being censored for the Steam version either, Amane is worst girl so good riddance. If people buy it we might even see an official translation of the other two games which not even the VN community has finished doing yet. Two more games of Juicy Yuuji would be amazing.

Good news: There was a Kickstarter not long ago which translated not only The Fruit of Grisaia, but will translate Meikyuu, Rakuen AND Magical Girl Michiru. So all we have to do is wait.

I disagree about Amane being worst girl, but that is a whole other can of worms.

OT: I love both. I love sprawling worlds and I love the adventures of characters within them. I personally like to make worlds then write about the every day lives of people within them. Not only is it great practice, it's fun as hell. I don't think it has much to do with age, merely preference.

Oh that is the hypest shit. Kickstarter is so good right now, so much good stuff that would never have had a chance to shine without Kickstarter backing. Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night anyone? I've not touched any Castlevania aside from like the first hour of Symphony but even I think the screenshots look amazing.

I don't really mean Amane is bad, worst is relative after all, everyone in the game is good. I mean when you have Yumiko always sniping at Yuuji whenever she has the chance, Sachi and Yuuji off to the side of whatever antics are going on having their own discussion about it (fucking Pitcher Payback) and just the goddess Michiru's entire existence, how can Amane compete? Unless the later part of her route is literally Jesus tier somehow. I guess Makina is worst technically, her route traumatised a friend of mine and he's never going to get over it. Damn you Frontowingu, that innocent loli funtime route was the cruellest bait imaginable. When I showed him it was on Steam the first response was:

"Oh look at that screenshot on Steam, pull the trigger - don't pull the trigger, as if it fucking matters"

I started the Steam version today and I always manage to forget exactly how well characterised Yuuji is. I mean Michiru is always Based Girl but some of the exchanges between Yumiko and Yuuji are well up there.

 

[Frission]

It really depends, but I think that a story with great writing can save anything, whether it's interpersonal drama, setting or the politics of the world.

That being said, at least in historical works, having engaging people is always good, since by getting invested in the people, you also come to care about the world they live in. I think that was a success of the "Game of Thrones Series".

I've actually recently finished "The name of the Rose" by Umberto Eco and was wondering if anyone has any recommendation of works that take place in a historical setting, but still manage to have a human heart. Books, films or viewing this site, games would be nice.

 

[IndianaJonny]

...I don't want to say my tastes have "matured" because obviously plenty of adults find lore and universe-building as fascinating as ever. I just think it's interesting how my fundemental perceptions and preferences when it comes to good story-telling have changed over time. Have any of you guys noticed a change like this as you grow older?

Perhaps we generally become more...susceptible...to sentimentality as we get older. I would like to think our capacity for empathy improves with age and we're better able to enjoy intimate and emotional experiences rather than just your grand, sweeping narratives of generic themes (good, evil, etc.) that appeal more broadly.

I for one am pleased to hear that you're making the most of that growing emotional intelligence that comes with age to savour these narratives in a deeper, richer and equally rewarding fashion. Well done.

It's also reassuring to know you're not transforming into some jaded old fart; which is nice.

...I've actually recently finished "The name of the Rose" by Umberto Eco and was wondering if anyone has any recommendation of works that take place in a historical setting, but still manage to have a human heart. Books, films or viewing this site, games would be nice.

I've heard very good things (from people whose opinions I trust) about Hilary Mantel's Wolf Hall and Bring up the Bodies - both earning her the Man Booker prize. Worth a look, perhaps?

(Wolf Hall has since been turned into a 6-episode mini-series starring Damien Lewis and the exceptional Mark Rylance)