I've seen a lot of stories lately on the Police in the US. This is by far the worst.

[Iwata]

the cop had been reprimanded 16 times in the previous 4 years, suspended without pay 5 times, and "recommended for termination for insubordination," but the school kept him on the force "without remedial training."

Thats all I need to read right there.

When the cop gets charged I think they should also charge whoever kept him in employment. It's just as much their fault.

16 times in 4 years?! Suspended 5 times?!

Are cops really that desperate for officers that they keep psychos on the force? Why was this guy even ALLOWED to carry a weapon, let alone keep his job? Fuck, if I fucked up that much in MY job, I'd be fired, let alone a job where public trust and safety are involved.

 

[Shoqiyqa]

But he was disobeying a direct order. In SCHOOL!!!!!! Does he have no manners?

Obviously the school was failing in its divine duty to indoctrinate the kids into the great united faith of FAUX GNUS, which calls for unthinking obedience. If they'd done that right he'd never have run from a cop. Must have been some sort of commie liberal.

{Hint: communism requires totalitarianism and liberalism is against totalitarianism, so the above was probably satire or sarcasm or something like that. Feel free to take it seriously, though.}

 

[FangShadow]

I can only say what I know based on the information that I have been given.If anything else comes up, I'll edit this to reflect that

I can't say the boy is an angel, and he definately shouldn't have run, but it does seem like he ran caused he freaked out- natural reaction.

The cop was doing ok at first. He pulled up to the assault, and tried to break it up. when the boy ran, he lost him.

Then he disobeyed an order from a superior to not chase the suspect. He escalated a situation. At that point, the cop hold the majority of the responsibilty in my eyes for why this went as as bad as it did.

His record alone should have him off the force or at least working a desk job out of the field.

I'm not going to say he is bad man, as maybe he just freaked out, but it's clear he did not properly handle the situation.

 

[dystopiaINC]

snip

Oh my God, it's a school cop.

First, let me recommend a book. It doesn't deal with cops, but correction officers. It goes into vivid detail regarding the Abu Gharib torture scandal, focusing on some of the soldiers/prison guards who perpetrated the crimes. It was also penned by the Doc who did the Stanford Prison Experiment. This certainly applies to cops as well. The idea is that the past several presidents and indeed most people with power over these institutions blame "a few bad apples" when some cop or corrections officer goes apeshit and does something horrific, when in fact it is Dr. Lombardo's contention (and mine) that the problem is the whole damned barrel. You don't put an unstable person in a shitty, thankless, stressful situation like a school rent-a-cop. Most cops have failed at becoming pro athletes. That's something to take into consideration when hiring/positioning them.

The book is called The Lucifer Principal, if anyone wants to check it out. Riveting stuff.

There was a rent-a-cop (not an actual cop) at our high school who was nuts. Once he tackled and cuffed a kid while screaming at him for giving him lip about not taking off his hat. I saw this. The same rent-a-cop harassed a Mexican friend of mine once when we were returning from 3rd period break (having off campus lunch). A third friend dropped him off by the band hall, and I rode with her to park. Several minutes later, our friend caught up with us and said that the "cop" made him walk all the way around the school and that when he asked, "Um, did you want something from me, or can I go?" the guy said to him, "Tell your friend to watch her speed." Not long after, he stepped into my lane without looking while directing traffic - more to the point, directing me to keep coming. Without looking at me. I was only going about 17 miles an hour, but he was about 2-3 car lengths ahead of me when he did it. I slammed on my breaks, but he still doubled over the hood. He screamed at me, demanded to know if I wanted to be arrested, then told me to get the hell out of there and never mess with him again. I went straight to the second-most-senior principal (he was available). The guy was fired within 2 days.

Back to the OP's story. Questions, thoughts, moans and groans.

If he was a school cop, wasn't he out of his jurisdiction?

If the school is rough enough for someone to consider armed campus police, isn't it too rough to consider armed campus police? I mean, said cops WILL be outnumbered, which means that at some point their guns will be taken away from them by whomever they're trying to subdue.

not all school cops are rent-a-cops. i live in Massachusetts and my high school a cop, he was a legit cop that had been on the local force and was pretty much on loan to the school. but our school has VERY little need for him be basically just deal with the fights and pot smokers it's not like we had any gang problems and our school had extremely little bullying, i would know i once got called to his office for allegedly threatening a kid in my freshman year, it was a false claim but he still looked into anything like that. he kept a pretty good handle on things in the school. he was a armed and he was a real cop

 

[oktalist]

http://www.ksat.com/news/25797958/detail.html

According to this piece, the officer slowly approached the shed saying police, the boy jumped out hitting him with the door and the officer accidentally fired his gun. I doubt however, he would be fearing for his life against an unarmed 14 year old.

Where does it say the shot was accidental?

 

[General Vagueness]

This is why I don't usually read Escapist threads thoroughly (besides having to click for the next page so many times), people say all this stuff with little information. I have a news flash for you: unless there was a video camera running pointed at the door of that shed, no one knows the entirety of what happened, and no one will know for sure. There will be a trial and all the evidence and testimony available will be presented, and a decision will be made. If you want to vent, fine, but saying things like "he won't be punished"* or "he should be hanged" probably won't help yourself or others cool off or help in any other way for that matter.

* not just because it implies he's guilty of whatever you think he should be charged with, but because it shows a complete lack of trust in the system

 

[Taham]

Where i'm from this is called murder.

Where I'm from, this is called "against the law".

Where I'm from, it's both.

 

[JoJo]

I know ADULTS how are still "children". I've got brothers too, and one, who's 27 now, is prolly less mature then your 14 old. I can guarantee THAT. But having that 14 year old with you atm is prolly clouding your judgment, because, they all aren't your brother. And even at 14 they can be very dangerious. Your may not be, which is wonderful, but it's just the facts of life.

Now, understand, I'm not really trying to defend the cop, I wasn't there, i don't know the whole story, and i still think one should take greater care when dealing with kids. Yes i consider 14 year olds "kids". But, the assumption that someone can't be dangerious, or criminal at age 14 is, IMO, just flat out wrong. They CAN be dangerious enough to warrent deadly force. That doesn't mean this one WAS. I'm just saying you can't rule that out, based simply on his age. It's not a plesent though, but it's reality.

Okay, here's the deal, here's my opinion. If a 14 year old was say holding a gun to a hostage's head or about to detonate themselves, it might be justifiable to shoot him or her if there was no other way to stop them. However I am of the opinion that there is never a need to take out a gun on a child unless that child is clearly armed with a deadly weapon, which was not the case here.

You really think a 14 year old is responsible enough for their actions to deserve death in this case? What country are you from, evidently not one where the age for drinking, smoking, age of consent, marriage, death penalty etc are all higher than that age.

Also there was absolutely no reason to think he might have a weapon and honestly if a grown man feels threatened by a 14 year old, he shouldn't be in the police force.

In the west coast (or anywhere near the border, really), the idea of gang bangers in schools are real threats. This is not some sappy movie. these kids have access to actual guns, and actual drugs. The gangs could also be connected to a Mexican cartel, who has enough firepower to match the US special forces.

When you see an American cop, the guns are not there because "its America being gun loving." It is there because they are necessary to fight such an imposing enemy. Schools have police forces because gangs also permeate schools. Kids are not immune to being gang members, and have no qualms about doing adult crimes. Its an actual problem.

A 14 year old could already be a gang member, and have any sort of weapons on his person ranging from a knife to a fully loaded 9mm. This is not a joke, and this is not a movie. These kids actually exist and they permeate schools near the border. You don't take a Mexican cartel lightly. He wasn't running away because he was "scared of the big bad cop" he ran away the same reason every gang banger runs away, he didn't want to go back to prison.

Yeah, he might have been a gang member... so could anyone though. There was no special reason to think he in particular might have been a gang member unless you're proposing that we shoot everyone who runs away from the police. If the kid pulled out a weapon himself, then the situation would be somewhat different, but he didn't.

 

[Monsterfurby]

You assume a perpetrator may be armed. A garden shed could easily contain any number of weapons. Not all kids are little bobby riding their bicycle. There are violent kids out there. To assume a kid is harmless is to assume a woman cannot murder a man. this is why a special rule was made to ensure the safety of an officer called the 21 foot rule.

Interesting. To be honest, I don't want to sound anti-American here, but you might be right in that a country where everyone can carry nearly any sort of firearm also needs heavily armed and ready cops. It still seems simply hard to wrap my head around.

 

[AlphaEcho]

Oh that makes sense, you know terrorism is not a bad thing and even without that, children have never gotten in fights or SHOT UP THE SCHOOL.

I am so glad that we live in a perfect Utopian society where the school does not need any form of protection than a bad glare at those whipper schnapps who cause trouble.

I can't think of a single school where I live that has a police officer stationed at it all the time, and we seem to get by just fine.

Meanwhile in Columbine.

I don't live in America, I live in Australia. Notice the fact that nothing like that has ever happened here? We don't have cops in schools, and yet we also don't have school shootings? That's because it's a lot harder to get firearms here, and most kids wouldn't have the contacts required to get illegal firearms.

Sure, our school system has its own problems, but at least kids don't get shot or shoot each other all the time.

Yet you act like the US and Australia are the exact same countries. They are very different.

 

[Vicarious Reality]

And why was he approaching the shed door from the front?

 

[omega 616]

See, this is why I think guns = stupid. How can people say "guns protect us and we NEED them to be safe" when the (should be) second most trained people with them are shooting teens!

I think Army personnel should be the most trained and cops second most, since they use guns the most.

All this talk of "if guns are kept and maintained properly they will always be safe" is stupid, there only reason for being is to kill.

He should be serving jail time at least and guns taken out of America.

 

[Aprilgold]

Here's some of the story they "left" out.

The officer didn't see him at first, but "approached the storage shed to search further for the suspect announcing several times 'Police, Police.'"
The report also stated that the "(Lopez) lunged through the doorway at (Alvarado), intentionally knocking the shed door into (Alvarado's) face."
The report further details that "fearing for his life, (Alvarado) discharged one round striking (Lopez) in his torso."

http://www.ksat.com/news/25797958/detail.html

Do you honestly think the man with the gun, who was recommended to be terminated from the force, but the school kept him hired, making this shooting a liability, it was PRONE to happen at any given time. The point is the kid was killed at 14, after running in god damn fear from a police officer WHO PULLED A GUN ON HIM! The simple fact he didn't have a taser or something is worrying, gun should be last resort, taser or non lethal weapon should be first choice, hell, THATS WHY THERES PEPPER SPRAY FOLKS, STINGS LIKE A ***** AND KEEPS THEM INCAPACITATED!
In all honesty, was it a fist fight, was the kid reacting back to the other child, why didn't the school get another officer, instead of one that wasn't fully done. So many things.

What this was is simple, cold fact, murder or man slaughter, I still not quite sure on their difference as of yet, getting there though. But this is murder, a kid at a fist fight, if they had a weapon, like a bat or something like a knife, then, YES, a gun is ALRIGHT, but for gods sake, shoot them in the leg or something. Seriously, I'd be scared too, the police in any school are intimidating to try and stop students from fighting, because when you have to face a friendly face instead of a rough one, which will intimidate you more? Seriously, police officers should be less gun finger pully in this state, hell, in Europe, don't the police only get guns when facing someone that will most likely have a gun? USA, why can't we just give our officers proper hand to hand training and guns only when necessary. I'm reminded of Hot Fuzz from that last sentence....

I'm in a movie mode tonight...

 

[Asuka Soryu]

He pulled his gun out, on an un-armed 14 year old over the kid getting into a fight with another kid and running away? wtf? I don't care what excuse he uses, he deserves to be punished to full extent. Pulling out a gun to catch an unarmed kid who's not posing a threat at all... and then shooting them 'accidentaly'.

 

[JoJo]

Look up. You cannot take that chance. You prepare for what could happen. This isn't the kind of situation (nor the place) where you throw caution to the wind just because he is a child. When under attack you cannot afford to wait around to see if he has a weapon, that gives the attacker an edge to kill you or hurt you.

I can't believe I'm reading this. You really think we should kill children pre-emptively if they resist arrest, because they might be armed? I'm starting to suspect this isn't really your opinion as if it is you should take a good long look at your life and moral standards, it doesn't matter if someone is at a school for "bad eggs", they're still a child and worthy of our protection and care.