J.R.R Tolkien vs. George R.R. Martin

[Fox12]

Tolkien is generally recognized as the father of modern fantasy with his epic novels. The Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit, and The Silmarillion are all genre defining masterpieces. On top of creating thousands of years of history and his own mythology, he's also created multiple real languages, making him the best world builder in the history of fiction.

Martin is known for political intrigue and character development. He's basically made a living deconstructing classic fantasy and and medieval literature. As a result he's popularized the sub genre of dark low fantasy. Both are respected writers in their own fields, making it inevitable that the two would clash over who is the true king of fantasy. Hence the thread.

Tolkien is armed with Andúril, sword of the king, the weapon that severed the hand of Sauron. The weapon is quite large, giving him a major reach advantage, and is also incredibly sharp. However, it's also heavy, making it somewhat unwieldy, and, requiring two hands, means that Tolkien has no shield. He also carries a knife as a side weapon. For armor he's wearing mithril chain mail, covering his chest, thighs, and legs, while he's wearing only a small conical for a helmet.

Martin is armed with a Valyrian straight sword. It's deadly, but doesn't posses nearly the length of Tolkien's weapon. However, to his advantage, he also has a Heater shield, , since his sword is lighter, offering him some added protection. He also has a dagger side weapon. For armor he gets a normal chain mail jerkin beneath a golden kings guard set. It's heavier than mithril, and the metal isn't as strong, but it still provides excellent protection. He also has a golden kings guard helmet.

The two must now fight to the death deep within the caverns of Moria, uninterrupted, to decide who is the better author. So, escapist, who will claim the crown (or throne) of fantasy literature?

 

[CymbaIine]

Can't stand Tolkien, read The Hobbit when I was in primary school and thought it was shite. Tried Lord of the Rings when I was older and again thought it was shite. Then when the films came out and the books topped great novels list I tried again and still thought it was badly written drivel. I will never understand why people think it's so great, well that's not true I suppose the genre defining thing is a good reason.

So yeah, GRRM for me.

 

[Breakdown]

In terms of accessories, Tolkien has a pipe, Martin has a funny hat.

 

[CymbaIine]

Dan "Emprah" Abnett joins the fray, he says words of powers which stops both authors in their tracks, then kills Tolkien with a force sword while shooting a barrage of slugs at Martin from his bolter, he is the last man standing.

Edit: on a more serious note, it's a pretty stupid question, Tolkien wrote dozens of years ago, so his works might seem worse than back in his days, not to mention he "soldified" (not created) a genre, more importantly, Martin does not write a fantasy story, it's more of a historical piece with some fantastic elements added in than straight fantasy, so it's not even the same genre and comparing different genres is just pointless, what's better? a comedy or a mystery?

Didn't he create most of the elements like orcs and stuff? When I slag him off to fans I usually get a diatribe on how all my favourite games, books, shows and everybody I have ever known or loved would not exist if it wasn't for him. They always seem pretty sure about it.

 

[Vivi22]

Tolkein was a great world builder, but couldn't really write worth a damn. I haven't read Martin's books to be fair, but watching the show is enough to tell me that he certainly wrote a story that's more interesting than pretty much anything that ever happened in any of Tolkeins writing.

 

[Fox12]

Edit: on a more serious note, it's a pretty stupid question, Tolkien wrote dozens of years ago, so his works might seem worse than back in his days, not to mention he "soldified" (not created) a genre, more importantly, Martin does not write a fantasy story, it's more of a historical piece with some fantastic elements added in than straight fantasy, so it's not even the same genre and comparing different genres is just pointless, what's better? a comedy or a mystery?

... Um, this was supposed to be a joke thread. I thought it was obvious. I thought the idea of a short, overweight Martin in tight armor fighting a wizened old Tolkien would make that clear. This was actually a parody of the more serious fan threads. I saw some fans debating this earlier on another forum, and I thought it would be funny if someone took "Tolkien vs Martin" way too literally. It seems it either went over everyone head, or else no one bothered to read the full post.

 

[klaynexas3]

I like Tolkien and respect him, but god damn Lord of the Rings is boring as shit. The Hobbit to me had more life to it, so I'm not going to say he had no story and writing skills, but Lord of the Rings, while having this interesting and magnificent world, is just nearly impossible to trudge through. None of the characters have much character to them, the only connections I feel towards any of them is because of the movies, and it's simply just too minimalist on plot and characters and such. The world is brilliant, I love it, but I just can't care about these people because they seem to have so little life in them most of the time. Sometimes I glimpse the characters underneath it all, but other times it just feels like it's spinning its wheels, and it's just...gah.

I realize it's a joke thread, I just feel the need to ***** about how hard it is to read Lord of the Rings again. I'll stop bitching once I finish it.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

If I had to choose between these two long winded and achingly over detailed writers, I'd ditch the two of them and read some David Eddings while he takes the piss out of grand fantasy stories.

 

[Fox12]

I like Tolkien and respect him, but god damn Lord of the Rings is boring as shit. The Hobbit to me had more life to it, so I'm not going to say he had no story and writing skills, but Lord of the Rings, while having this interesting and magnificent world, is just nearly impossible to trudge through. None of the characters have much character to them, the only connections I feel towards any of them is because of the movies, and it's simply just too minimalist on plot and characters and such. The world is brilliant, I love it, but I just can't care about these people because they seem to have so little life in them most of the time. Sometimes I glimpse the characters underneath it all, but other times it just feels like it's spinning its wheels, and it's just...gah.

I realize it's a joke thread, I just feel the need to ***** about how hard it is to read Lord of the Rings again. I'll stop bitching once I finish it.

I actually consider LotR to be his weakest work, so I try not to hold it against him. The Silmarillion reads like a masterpiece of mythology, while the Hobbit was lively and fun. I respect his world building genius and dedication, but I think it's best seen in his other works.

Incidentally, Tolkien has military experience and mythril, so I want to give it to him. I'm not too sure how good he would be with such a heavy sword, though.

 

[Mithcha]

Tolkien drops the giant clunky weapon and takes his dagger, using his military experience he throws the fucker right in JRRs face THEN proceeds to write an elaborate letter of apology, 'cause British.

 

[klaynexas3]

Snip

I think it's plenty fair to judge a fictional novel for lacking a compelling narrative and characters. While I can see the genius in it and see why some might find the books to be intriguing and amazing and what have you, it's flaws are still there and are still flaws none the less. It's a lot closer to criticizing Finnigan's Wake for being incoherent. Sure, there might something underneath it all that people would like to read, but it is still off putting to someone who isn't trying basically read another language.

So yes, while Tolkien's intentions may have not been to make a compelling narrative, that simply shows why the flaw is there. It's why people still criticize Michael Bay films for being stupid, his intentions aren't that it's supposed to be intelligent, but that doesn't mean it's exempt from being criticized for lacking that intelligence.

 

[StriderShinryu]

As much credit as I feel Tolkien deserves for essentially creating modern fantasy, probably the first genre I fell in love with as a young reader, I just can't stand by him as a writer. His writing just makes me wish I was somewhere else and actively watching paint dry. For all of the flak the LOTR movies get for not accurately adapting Tolkien's work, I still prefer them for the simple fact that they made the world and characters of Tolkien actually interesting to consume.

GRRM, while not my favourite fantasy author, does write books I actually enjoy reading. So, yeah, GRRM for me in a straight up competition between the two.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Tolkien, hands down. For all his issues, and for all it's hard for most people to actually read his stuff, he more or less defined fantasy. Fantasy to this day is often Tolkien with the names changed. Hell, you get a lot of people trying to be the anti-Tolkien instead, which is still a result of him.

Now, Tolkien's work, and fantasy in general, has suffered because of zillions of people trying to be the next him, but there's no denying he is the one with the real legacy.

...

OH, and somehow I read the title as George Takei vs George R R Martin.

 

[davidmc1158_v1legacy]

Just when the battle is about to begin, they begin discussing which kind of typewriter should be used to type up the battle report, and get off on a seven hour discussion on the merits of various brands and models.

Then they go off to drink a pint together to discuss it further. Fight ends.

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

Okay getting over your fantasy of Tolkein and Martin dueling each other over a volcano using weapons and armor symbolizing their writing style...

They're two drastically different writing styles that somehow amount up to almost similar epics.

Martin, as you said, is about holding back, character developement, politics, moralities, logical explanations despite a magical world, and not trying to drown the reader with too much detail. Plus Martin dives into more gruesome things like prostitution, mutilation, executions, incest, rape, slavery, and tortures.

Tolkein was always about making the huge, epic worlds with their own centuries of histories, cultures, languages, myths, and races. He didn't see the Lord of the Rings as a grand story that would become a magnum opus, he saw it more as an expansion on one of the myths he made in the Salmirillon. But his books were always so thick in description, histories, and songs that they are, to most people today who read them, incredibly heavy-handed and a bit of a chore to fight through.

But but but. Both of them weren't too interested in describing battles, both of them barely used magic let alone relied on it as a plot element (besides Gandalf returning from the dead :x), both of them try to space out lore to when it's relevant to the story, both of them saw their imaginary worlds as something so much bigger and complex than it appeared on the first pages, both of them saw the conflict as a globe-crossing war with no end in sight instead of just a band of guys walking everywhere and solving everyone's problems after one battle at the end, and both of them weren't afraid to get dozens of characters involved instead of the handful most novels are used to.

I prefer Martin because Tolkein can just get so hard to read at any time in any of his books, no matter how many childhood memories I have of loving the Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.

 

[Skin]

The Hobbit and especially LotR were so boring to read and such a damn chore. Tolkien was a good linguist, not a good writer.

With Martin on the otherhand, GoT, CoK and SoS kept my interest and he only really started falling off in AFFC and then went full potato in ADwD.

So my vote goes for Martin.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

If we're going by real life, Tolkien wins hands down. He was a soldier.

But in the spirit of this thread, I'm afraid I must abstain. I've never read any of the Game of Thrones books so I can't judge them. They are not to my liking. Too much death and gore from what I've seen/heard.

However, I absolutely love The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, so if I'm forced to chose, I chose Tolkien for the win again.

 

[default]

Anyone who just can't stand Tolkien's writing style in LOTR (I know I certainly can't), go and read The Children of Hurin. It's by far my favourite work by him (that I've read). It rattles on at a really nice pace with action, intrigue, despair, some truly interesting character development and excellently written prose. It's like a Greek tragedy in the world of Middle Earth. Turin is still one of my favourite book characters.

Also, I'm pretty sure Martin would just keel over at this point and start breathing very heavily on the ground after a couple of minutes of physical exertion. Tolkien wins!