Jade Empire!

[Wadders]

What with all the talk of Bioware games recently, I've felt the need to try out one of their older games, namely, Jade Empire - as opposed to KotOR (not a massive Star Wars fan.) I absolutely love the Mass Effect games to an unsettling degree, but I've yet to finish Dragon Age: Origins yet. It's just not drawn me in as much as Mass Effect did

I've got my eyes on the PC Special Edition of Jade Empire, and reviews all seem good, but I thought I'd get some more opinions from you good people as well first.

What did you like about it, what did you dislike about it etc?

 

[Rhinzual26]

What with all the talk of Bioware games recently, I've felt the need to try out one of their older games, namely, Jade Empire - as opposed to KotOR (not a massive Star Wars fan.) I absolutely love the Mass Effect games to an unsettling degree, but I've yet to finish Dragon Age: Origins yet. It's just not drawn me in as much as Mass Effect did

I've got my eyes on the PC Special Edition of Jade Empire, and reviews all seem good, but I thought I'd get some more opinions from you good people as well first.

What did you like about it, what did you dislike about it etc?

The gameplay can be well, frustrating at times. If you've ever played Arkham Asylum, consider Jade Empire to be a beta-and-then-trashed version of the combat engine. Some of the combat styles are difficult to control and utilize when you have four or more enemies beating up on you, the only real magic worth investing in is Stone Immortal, and that locks you in on the good path. Some people say the Storm Dragon style is cheating and well, they'd be right.

The characters are all familiar BioWare archetypes, Black Whirlwind fufils the role of HK-47/Urdnot Wrex/Grunt/Korgan Bloodaxe. There's no real armor in the game, so surviving boils down to having either enough hitpoints, or enough chi/magic to heal yourself, but that requires holding a button down the entire time.

Also, the counter system is messed up. Light attack beats heavy, heavy beats blocking, and blocking beats light attack. Thing is, whenever an enemy raises a shield, you'll never want to initiate a heavy attack because during the wind-up phase, the enemy will nearly always drop their shield and smack you with a bunch of light attacks.

Combat is in invisible arenas with the whole invisible wall thing, and they range in size from comfortably large to wtf-tiny. There are a few puzzles in the quests and I did find them fun, and the dialogue for the demons/spirits was always my favorite parts. If you handle some quests in a different order like in say chapter 2, you'll have to fight 2 bosses in a very small area instead of just one in a wide open area (hint: do the forest quest last after landing in Tien's Landing). Reading the ingame fluff lands you appreciable amount of experience and even ingame bonuses, there's even a gem (equipment) that boosts what you earn from reading things, and outside of editing a file or farming random encounters in a graveyard, you'll never reach maximum level.

There's even a few sections that are like a top-down shoot-em up, and while they can be hard, they're required to unlock an area that helps give some very great and cheap permanent boosts to your character. You can only ever have one ally out at once, and you'll always leave them in support mode because well, they suck as they can never be controlled outside one sequence near the endgame.

The Big Bad is very likable, moreso than Saren and right up there with Darth Malak and Sevrok.

 

[Aidinthel]

It's pretty good. It's a fantasy RPG actually set somewhere other than not-Middle-Earth and they even tried something different with the combat mechanics. Admittedly the combat system doesn't always work, the game is too short, you don't get to customize your avatar, and I figured out the big twist pretty early on, but I still recommend it.

 

[thedoclc]

Ok, I'm assuming you're going to accept it's a Bioware RPG and not complain about tons of dialog, a lack of grind, etc.

Pros:
Far and away some of Bioware's best writing and characters. This was Bioware when it could still crack more than two jokes in a game.

Graphically, this game has a distinct and beautiful style. It was one of the best looking games on the original XBox and on PC in its time, and it holds up today - not for most clear, high-def, ultra-real graphics, but for having a beautiful ascetic and feel to it that sticks out among the sea of depressing brown. While most video games are aping Heinlein or smearing dung all over the middle ages, Jade Empire is incredibly colorful.

The combat is quick, easy to get into, and does not (like KotOR) consist mostly of hitting someone with a glowing nerf bat until they die.

The setting is possibly only second to Mass Effect for immersion and just feeling like a really creative property. DA:O felt like someone had read Warhammer and Tolkien, then just scribbled in "Fade" for Warp and "Darkspawn" for Orc before knocking off for the day. Jade Empire does this amazing, fresh take on fantasy China with a splash of other Asian myths thrown in.

Cons:
For starters, be prepared for a downright schizophrenic difficulty curve; the first few scenes will make many new players cry until they get a handle on it, but towards the end it's like fighting fluffy pillows which give you XP for killing them.

The combat system is action-based with a modestly shallow third person fighting game style. It's fast, flowing, but a little repetitive. The correct choice of initial starting style - Leaping Tiger - is good enough to level it and one or two other game-breakers for the whole game. Sadly, the player cannot know this when they make their initial decision. Taking any of the slow styles and enemies will break out out of combos so often you might as well just go home.

There is a very glaring genre change in the game where you'll go from playing a martial arts in Ming Faux-China to playing 1942. I'm not making this up.

This game is also short as heck, with only 20 hrs to complete all the plot lines and relevant sidequests.

This might seem petty, but there's only a small handful of player character models, six total, if memory serves.

Bottom Line:

I'd say Jade Empire was Bioware's second best game, right after Mass Effect.

 

[Weaver]

I actually couldn't get over the really bad combat, and combat animations. Ruined the game for me

 

[DeadlyYellow]

My favorite Bioware game.

Gameplay itself is acceptable, has a few bugs and the camera is wonky at parts. The Plot is superb and does well for a second playthrough, just to see how everything fit into place.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Agreeing with most things said above except..

* Tempest is just as good as Stone Immortal, making evil (well, closed fist, it's not quite the same thing) characters relatively equal. Hidden fist is annoying to use, however. The most annoying thing is that most of the really good styles are only available later on, meaning it's hardly worth investing in the dross you have to use throughout the early game.

* Unless you build a character very specifically to use weapons or transformation magic, combat is massively based around combos, which are suitably enjoyable to pull off. Making people explode into a huge shower of blood never gets old. Pulling off combos correctly makes enemies drop regenerating power ups which solve the aforementioned health problem without need to heal.

* The story is pretty damn good once you get into it. The plot twist is predictable but superbly executed. Definately expect bioware standard here. Some of the environments are also great.

 

[KILRbuny]

Bioware has always been good at characters, which is a reason why I love their games, and the little bit of Jade Empire I played really accentuates how good they are at creating characters and a world you can care about. If you can get past the not-so-stellar combat (it's still playable, just feels kind of old) you'll enjoy it quite a bit. Especially so if you love mass effect.

 

[Rhinzual26]

Ok, I'm assuming you're going to accept it's a Bioware RPG and not complain about tons of dialog, a lack of grind, etc.

Pros:
Far and away some of Bioware's best writing and characters. This was Bioware when it could still crack more than two jokes in a game.

Graphically, this game has a distinct and beautiful style. It was one of the best looking games on the original XBox and on PC in its time, and it holds up today - not for most clear, high-def, ultra-real graphics, but for having a beautiful ascetic and feel to it that sticks out among the sea of depressing brown. While most video games are aping Heinlein or smearing dung all over the middle ages, Jade Empire is incredibly colorful.

The combat is quick, easy to get into, and does not (like KotOR) consist mostly of hitting someone with a glowing nerf bat until they die.

The setting is possibly only second to Mass Effect for immersion and just feeling like a really creative property. DA:O felt like someone had read Warhammer and Tolkien, then just scribbled in "Fade" for Warp and "Darkspawn" for Orc before knocking off for the day. Jade Empire does this amazing, fresh take on fantasy China with a splash of other Asian myths thrown in.

Cons:
For starters, be prepared for a downright schizophrenic difficulty curve; the first few scenes will make many new players cry until they get a handle on it, but towards the end it's like fighting fluffy pillows which give you XP for killing them.

The combat system is action-based with a modestly shallow third person fighting game style. It's fast, flowing, but a little repetitive.

There is a very glaring genre change in the game where you'll go from playing a martial arts in Ming Faux-China to playing 1942. I'm not making this up.

This game is also short as heck, with only 20 hrs to complete all the plot lines and relevant sidequests.

This might seem petty, but there's only a small handful of player character models, six total, if memory serves.

Bottom Line:

I'd say Jade Empire was Bioware's second best game, right after Mass Effect.

This man is not joking about the difficulty curve. Some opponents like ghosts and demons will be infinitely more hard than human opponents. There's an enemy called the Red Minister, you fight him like, a few times through the entire game, but as a ghost, he's immune to support styles (like Storm Dragon) and has a huge health bar. Every attack he does drains your health and mana, while restoring his own health. As a ghost enemy, you can't complete harmonic combos on him (essentially an insta-kill with two power attacks from a support and then martial style, usually gives a health/mana/focus refill).

As the man has said, every character is wonderfully written and feels like they actually belong and aren't there just to appease fans. Just so you know, Simon Templeman has a voice role in this game, and he is pure awesome.

 

[Rhinzual26]

Agreeing with most things said above except..

* Tempest is just as good as Stone Immortal, making evil (well, closed fist, it's not quite the same thing) characters relatively equal. Hidden fist is annoying to use, however. The most annoying thing is that most of the really good styles are only available later on, meaning it's hardly worth investing in the dross you have to use throughout the early game.

* Unless you build a character very specifically to use weapons or transformation magic, combat is massively based around combos, which are suitably enjoyable to pull off. Making people explode into a huge shower of blood never gets old. Pulling off combos correctly makes enemies drop regenerating power ups which solve the aforementioned health problem without need to heal.

* The story is pretty damn good once you get into it. The plot twist is predictable but superbly executed. Definately expect bioware standard here. Some of the environments are also great.

The issue I have with Tempest is that it well, requires the 'evil' path, and like in KoTOR 1, the evil path is so blatant that you can't help but laugh/cringe at everything. The Closed Fist who teaches it to you is certainly awesome, no doubt. Also, Storm Dragon can be gotten as early as Chapter 2 in the special edition, and yeah, it makes fighting every human opponent a cakewalk, aside from the staff users who can knock you around.

This man is right about how building specific types can make it possible to deviate away from just combos, but some enemy types are immune to certain attacks. I think the Martial Styles (combos and all) affect everything equally, they just do less damage to compensate.

 

[thethingthatlurks]

Pro:
Very beautiful artstyle, at least imho. The setting is in faux-ancient China, so lots and lots of colors, folklore, etc. Some of the levels later on (crypt, secret base) are a bit boring, but otherwise I'd rate it as Bioware's best artstyle.

Combat. It's...odd. A bit like streetfighter, if it were dumbed down,but it's always entertaining. It can be quite difficult sometimes, and there are mechanisms that are only slightly less unbalanced than godmode (jade golem). Yet it's fun to beat up enemies.

Story. I know this is going to piss some people off, but Bioware writes terrible stories. This is their best, although that's not saying much. The villain (as in the actual villain, not the guy you kill at the 2/3 mark) as good motives, the backstory is interesting, and your own backstory does an adequate job as far as explaining why you are "the only one who can stop them."

Sir Roderick Ponce von Fontlebottom the Magnificent Bastard. When you see him, you'll understand.

Endings. Actually, it's only the fact that there is a ending for surrendering to Big Bad, which is actually rather well done.

Cons:
Story. Uhm, it's another one of those trite Bioware "bloke saves the world from doom" things.

Some of the characters feel rather stock, although I've always gotten a good laugh out of Black Whirlwind and Kang. Zhu and that mercenary pirate hunter guy can go fuck themselves with their emoness though.

Combat. I'm not going to lie, it's an arse sometimes. And some enemies have the nasty habit of insta countering your heavy attack which you've just initiated to break through their block.

Morality system. This one is more interesting than light/dark side, but it's on par with renegade/paragon. Be an ass, or not be an ass sums it up nicely. You get some powers and quests for going through one path completely, but there's a choice close to the end that almost completely negates any others made during the game.

Romance. So. Goddamn. Cheesy! Although there's the possibility of a threesome, if that's your thing.

Overall I would highly recommend it! Great game, great fun, very cool setting.

 

[Weaver]

This thread makes me want to give the game another chance!

 

[DustyDrB]

Learn this sequence for the bigger demons: hit hit hit, dodge, hit hit hit, dodge.

I prefer speed over power in the game. Being able to land quick hits and then dodge the enemy's attacks is the easiest way to go. Leaping Tiger for me!

 

[Eveylon]

Jade Empire was my 1st taste of a Western RPG, and of a Bioware game, and personally I feel in love with it, the mix of western play and a Eastern setting and story was really appealing to me, so I have quite a strong attachment to it as a game. If you do decide to get I do hope you enjoy too

 

[Therumancer]

What with all the talk of Bioware games recently, I've felt the need to try out one of their older games, namely, Jade Empire - as opposed to KotOR (not a massive Star Wars fan.) I absolutely love the Mass Effect games to an unsettling degree, but I've yet to finish Dragon Age: Origins yet. It's just not drawn me in as much as Mass Effect did

I've got my eyes on the PC Special Edition of Jade Empire, and reviews all seem good, but I thought I'd get some more opinions from you good people as well first.

What did you like about it, what did you dislike about it etc?

I'd say the best way to view this would be like "what if Mass Effect 2 was a brawler instead of a shooter?". It's an older game, and the graphics show it, but the quality is good enough where you don't have many problems I don't think.

It's important to note that this is more of an action game than an RPG, despite some customization aspects. The focus is pretty much on kung-fuing your way through a bunch of bad guys interspaced with a lot of Bioware NPCs and some decent writing. Rather than picking Paragon/Renegade or Light Side/Dark Side you have an "Open Hand" and "Closed Fist" rating which you build up that open up specific options and allow the use of differant items, as well as influancing the ending.

The RPG elements are limited to enhancing your fighting styles (making them hit harder, execute faster, used less energy, etc...) and slotting gems that boost stats into your "Dragon Amulet". Ther are weapons, but really they are just another fighting style rather than equipment.

It's solid, and well written. I'm more of a fighting game fan than a shooter fan, so I liked this better than "Mass Effect 2".

As people have pointed out there are definatly some game balance issues involved, but the game was pretty experimental. Simply put some fighting styles are far better than others, you obtain more styles as you progress through the game, and the strongest ones are generally things you find later and/or tied to specific actions and desicians. The problem is that the game uses a level system so in order to get to the strongest styles you typically have to level up the weaker ones, and that means not having enough points to master the ones you really like. You don't have enough points to really max out too many things.

I will say that the effectiveness of styles DOES depend on play style as well, a lot of people in this thread knock the slow styles like "White Demon" and such, where I think that is a mistake. The big thing is that this game is like a brawler or fighting game, and differant styles require a differant strategy and variety of timing. If you want to go heavily on offense and try and tear enemies down, then yes fast styles (and to some extent medium styles) are better. With slow styles it's more of a reactive "let them come to you" type thing on a lot of levels, and requires more in the way of timing. Having used them I will say that you can sort of lead opponents with a bit of practice so they kind of walk into your attacks, as opposed to you coming up and trying to hit them where they can react faster and stop you during wind up.

It's all a matter of preferance, and some styles work better against certain enemies than others. I actually think the slower styles work better on a lot of the later enemies than the faster ones do, but I guess it comes down to opinion.

The PC version introduced a couple of new styles, which is part of what makes it the "special edition". The good guys (Open Hand) had an advantage with "Stone Immortal" compared to the evil guys (Closed Fist) "Tempest" style. The two new styles are also alignment aspected and the evil style which is called "Venom" if I remember has an absolutly crazy poison effect attached to it that probably makes it the overall strongest style in the game. In comparison the good style, "Iron Fist" is pretty much lifted from Gao early in the game (and ironically he's about as closed fist as your going to get), and it's nothing
really special. There is probably a degree of parity between someone who fully mastered Tempest/Venum and someone who mastered Ironfist/Stone Immortal, of course by the time you've gotten all the scrolls for the new styles your probably not going to have enough points to invest in fully mastering the style since you'll be working on a lot of things. Some enemies have immunity to differant attacks styles (so you have to mix it up), and chances are your going to want to save points so you can use the "Jade Golem" transformation at a decent level in the final battle.

 

[Terminal Blue]

The issue I have with Tempest is that it well, requires the 'evil' path, and like in KoTOR 1, the evil path is so blatant that you can't help but laugh/cringe at everything. The Closed Fist who teaches it to you is certainly awesome, no doubt.

There are definitely bits when it comes close to being good. The main problem is that they got quite lazy at enforcing the difference between 'Closed Fist' and 'being a dick'.

For example.. there's a bit where a young girl has been kidnapped by a slaver. Your choices are.

* To help her and reunite her with her mother (the open palm option)
* To make a deal with the slaver (the douche option, which for some reason happened to give you closed fist points)
* To give her a knife and tell her to stand the fuck up for herself, resulting in her killing the slaver and going off to follow her own path (the actual closed fist option).

They outlined the philosophy very well (helping people makes them weak, people need to stand up for themselves, yadda yadda), then proceeded to completely ignore it in most of the choices in favour of simple greed and random cruelty.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

Jade Empire is a good choice to play,if you enjoyed KotOR and if you're into Bioware's dialogue/choice style.

I would personally recommend it,since the graphics are still decent to this day and the game is quite lenghty.

 

[Rhinzual26]

The issue I have with Tempest is that it well, requires the 'evil' path, and like in KoTOR 1, the evil path is so blatant that you can't help but laugh/cringe at everything. The Closed Fist who teaches it to you is certainly awesome, no doubt.

There are definitely bits when it comes close to being good. The main problem is that they got quite lazy at enforcing the difference between 'Closed Fist' and 'being a dick'.

For example.. there's a bit where a young girl has been kidnapped by a slaver. Your choices are.

* To help her and reunite her with her mother (the open palm option)
* To make a deal with the slaver (the douche option, which for some reason happened to give you closed fist points)
* To give her a knife and tell her to stand the fuck up for herself, resulting in her killing the slaver and going off to follow her own path (the actual closed fist option).

They outlined the philosophy very well (helping people makes them weak, people need to stand up for themselves, yadda yadda), then proceeded to completely ignore it in most of the choices in favour of simple greed and random cruelty.

The philosophy was great, but it was most of the implementation that drove me away. You hit the nail spot on with why I hated going Closed Fist, too few proper implementations of it.