Jagex Busts Teen for School Shooting Comment
- Thread starter IanDavis
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It's good heads-up thinking to report someone who threatens violence. No one can look the other way now, when people say shit like that. I don't care what your sense of humor is, with so many publicized instances of kids saying, "I'm going to shoot up my school." there are no exceptions, his access to firearms should be removed and be placed under a watch list for any weapons he may look to purchase in the future.
Jagex is a British company, yeah, but the alleged/potential shooter and presumably the school in question exist in Massachusetts, which is in the US.Desert Punk said:
RE: the people shouting about "Free Speech" - you do realize that The Internet is extraterritorial, right? As in "International Waters"? The First Amendment doesn't apply here, and it especially doesn't apply to the non-US company which brought this incident to the proper authorities that runs the game.
I don't know, have you claimed to have stolen things before and have the weapons and wherewithal to rob a bank in your possession? Also did you say this in jest to trusted friends or did you post it to random strangers on the internet?Abandon4093 said:
We all say silly mental things in jest on the forums that we don't really mean for the lulz from time to time, but a little context here I think is important.
I'll reserve judgement till the trial. I do think that the $50,000 bail is a bit excessive. Confiscating his weapons and house arrest would have been enough in this case I feel.
Difference is your example is a cliche at this point and would hardly be taken seriously.knight steel said:
Saying "I'm going to shoot up my school tomorrow" is an entirely different matter. It is supposed to invoke fear into people, and saying that he is going to do it tomorrow hints that he is actually planning it.
Also the fact that his household even has guns justifies the lawful action taken in my opinion. If he had no immediate access to firearms he probably would have gotten off a little lighter. Maybe a mark on his record and a fine or something.
If
This is ridiculous. It's one thing to react to something that may or may not be a legitimate threat but to go so far as 50k bail and using stuff as petty as, "Frongillo also made anti-Semitic comments" - "previously talked about shooting a squirrel with a .12 shotgun." to build a case against him is pathetic.
They got nothing, this case is practically frivolous, and I hope this guy turns it around and gets all of his money back and then some with a defamation of character suit.
They got nothing, this case is practically frivolous, and I hope this guy turns it around and gets all of his money back and then some with a defamation of character suit.
The thing about defamation of character is it only applies if you say something that is untrue or a lie. If you just say hey this guy said this and he did in fact say that it isn't defamation of character it is literally his character.tetron said:
Also the thing about bail money is you get it back if you don't bail or run away. If he shows up in court (and why wouldn't he?) I doubt he will get much more than a slight slap on the wrist for being an idiot.
Sidenote: Does this mean when people threaten to rape my mother in games I can now report the threat to police? Or are school shootings the only thing that is strong enough to press buttons these days?
Guys, going to trial does not equal a conviction. The police in this case have ample evidence to make an accusation, and an arrest. Note that at this stage, he is still being presumed innocent. In trial, the prosecution will have the burden of proving his intent to commit his crime beyond a reasonable doubt, which means that if there is but a possibility that he did not commit the crime of which he is accused, the jury must find him "not guilty". You can rattle on about there not being enough evidence. If that is the case, he will not be convicted, and, hopefully, will learn a lesson about what is and isn't ok to say anywhere, including the internet. Also note that bail is supposed to be high enough that it would be a significant loss if the bail were not repaid. That's the point of bail; you're letting the accused live at home until the trial, and so you require collateral so that they don't skip town in the interim. $50k bail is not excessive, and as long as he attends his trial, whether he be found guilty or not guilty, the money will be returned to him. So, the only thing he's lost is however much he needs to spend on a lawyer, which, as the defendant, he does not actually need to do. You see, he has the right to an attorney; if he doesn't want to hire one, the state MUST provide him with a public defender. So he's out of school from now until the trial day. Assuming he's not convicted, I'd say that the equivalent of a suspension from school is proper punishment for making violent threats. If he is convicted, it would be with the greatest burden of proof that our judicial system can require, and in that case, there would have to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
Also, threats of any kind are not protected speech, and people are prosecuted if their threats are dire enough. So this is hardly a violation of free speech.
Also, threats of any kind are not protected speech, and people are prosecuted if their threats are dire enough. So this is hardly a violation of free speech.
It's good that he got reported, but...the possibility of prison? To be honest, get a psychiatrist to evaluate him, have a look in his psyche, keep a careful watch on him, maybe search his house for guns/bombs/sharp objects.
This is so incredibly short sighted. This will stop nothing. The only thing this case will accomplish is insuring that the next time a school shooting happens we will be even less likely to see it coming.
The smart thing to do would be to have measures in place at the school itself to stop these shootings from happening and informing those responsible for implementing those measures to keep an eye on this kid so they can stop him immediately. Something like a "random" person/locker search for firearms or anything else directly incriminating to his plans. At least that way they wouldn't have had to tip their hand about how they learned of his plans, and they would either have actual evidence for their case against him(leading to a harsher penalty and a greater likelihood that the charges would stick) or they would realize that it was a typical idle teenage threat without wasting so much taxpayer money on a prosecution that is questionable.
Freedom of speech does more to protect you than censorship ever will. People who are able to say what they like will make it clear what side they are on so you can readily identify who your enemies are and who to watch out for and avoid. This case as it is now, will simply convince the next people planning on the next school shooting to be that much more careful about giving any clues to what they plan. We won't see it coming and our cycle of paranoia will only get worse.
The smart thing to do would be to have measures in place at the school itself to stop these shootings from happening and informing those responsible for implementing those measures to keep an eye on this kid so they can stop him immediately. Something like a "random" person/locker search for firearms or anything else directly incriminating to his plans. At least that way they wouldn't have had to tip their hand about how they learned of his plans, and they would either have actual evidence for their case against him(leading to a harsher penalty and a greater likelihood that the charges would stick) or they would realize that it was a typical idle teenage threat without wasting so much taxpayer money on a prosecution that is questionable.
Freedom of speech does more to protect you than censorship ever will. People who are able to say what they like will make it clear what side they are on so you can readily identify who your enemies are and who to watch out for and avoid. This case as it is now, will simply convince the next people planning on the next school shooting to be that much more careful about giving any clues to what they plan. We won't see it coming and our cycle of paranoia will only get worse.
I'm okay with this. Playing any game online and stating you're about to kill another player is fine. "I'm gonna fucking kill you!" being lobbed at your Nemesis during a Team Fortress 2 game makes sense. It's hard to take out of context.
Specifically saying you're going to assault someone who's NOT related to the game that's taking place, and reinforcing it with imagery? That's something else entirely. Add to that the fact that he was throwing antisemitic comments around and yeah, arresting him makes perfect sense.
If any loon ever tries to use these forums as a means to try and trumpet some sort of murder in the making and shows a fair dose of intent, I can only hope someone here will have the good judgment to try and call the cops.
Specifically saying you're going to assault someone who's NOT related to the game that's taking place, and reinforcing it with imagery? That's something else entirely. Add to that the fact that he was throwing antisemitic comments around and yeah, arresting him makes perfect sense.
If any loon ever tries to use these forums as a means to try and trumpet some sort of murder in the making and shows a fair dose of intent, I can only hope someone here will have the good judgment to try and call the cops.
I like the idea of scaring the shit out of this kid but actual jail time. You are aware our shitty American prison system sends harmless idiots like this into prison and pumps out hardened criminals that will actually commit this shit. Good on the gamers for reporting him but the police should have just scared him a bit, investigated without arresting, let his parents kick his ass or something.
I think it's rediculous, personally. The number of time's I've seen someone online claim they're going to kill someone, kill themselves or go on a rampage is easily in the hundreds, if not higher (I used to frequent 4chan) and to my knowledge NONE of those people ever acted on their words.
I personally don't like the idea someone can be arrested just for saying something. I understand legitimate threats should be illegal, but there's no way to tell this was a legitimate threat at all.
I personally don't like the idea someone can be arrested just for saying something. I understand legitimate threats should be illegal, but there's no way to tell this was a legitimate threat at all.
Given that school shootings aren't exactly rare these days, this seems like a credible threat. He doesn't seem to have typed it in jest, and a great deal of Americans have the means to shoot up a school if they so wish. I didn't know making general threats ("I'm going to shoot up a school") was a crime, as it doesn't cause any particular individual to have a reasonable fear of harm (as in, with assault or intimidation), unless one of the other gamers on Runescape happened to go to the same school as he did. Still, if it's a crime, he's certainly guilty of it.
Why is everyone going crazy about his $50k bail though? Bail is a function of several factors, including the weight of the crime, the suspect's ties to the community, his total wealth (his parents apparently have a lot of money as they actually paid the bail), etc. And you get it back, assuming you don't flee the country to escape the trial.
Why is everyone going crazy about his $50k bail though? Bail is a function of several factors, including the weight of the crime, the suspect's ties to the community, his total wealth (his parents apparently have a lot of money as they actually paid the bail), etc. And you get it back, assuming you don't flee the country to escape the trial.
Jesus people, he's probably just a troll looking to aggravate people. You should not be arrested for a joke you make in a video game, regardless if the joke is in bad taste.
You have to look at the whole instance in order to understand why they did what they did.
When Jagex turned over the logs, THEN they found it wasn't a "one-off" joke. It was part of an ongoing series of comments which also included antisemitism and violence against animals. When you look at the psyche of school shooters; violence against animals, antisemitism, and repeated self-aggrandized threats surface constantly.
I'm sure everyone's joked about similarly inappropriate topics with friends. It's human nature and dark humor. But the difference is: not everyone phrases the "jokes" as "threats" and repeats them constantly as well as building a profile of aggression.
Naturally, the prosecutors will turn to his other personal records via his computer to build their case.
When Jagex turned over the logs, THEN they found it wasn't a "one-off" joke. It was part of an ongoing series of comments which also included antisemitism and violence against animals. When you look at the psyche of school shooters; violence against animals, antisemitism, and repeated self-aggrandized threats surface constantly.
I'm sure everyone's joked about similarly inappropriate topics with friends. It's human nature and dark humor. But the difference is: not everyone phrases the "jokes" as "threats" and repeats them constantly as well as building a profile of aggression.
Naturally, the prosecutors will turn to his other personal records via his computer to build their case.