Japan disaster, no looting? Do we in the west need to re-evaluate our opinions of Japanese society?

[For.I.Am.Mad]

Give it a few more days.

 

[ph0b0s123]

There are people who look down on Japan for being weird? WTF.
This is the first I've ever heard about this.

Sometimes in the discussions here, yes. Also in the media, with repeated travel programs, etc about Japan just focusing on the wierd / bad, not on the good. Like a lot of the stories comming out about people forgetting very expensive belongings, then comming back to find them still there. I had not heard any of this before....

That's what I means by a bit of a negative bias, hence I wanted to make a thread to point out some of the positive.

 

[OldRat]

I'd say a nuclear reactor exploding and spewing out radiation is going to curb looting in that area at least.

 

[Cerrida]

Well if you count "searching the rubble that once was our city for useful things" then there is indeed a lot of looting. But without stores to storm it just doesnt look like it

According to this: http://www.peterpayne.net/2011/03/japan-earthquake-update.html the opposite is true. People who were shopping actually waited outside with their items and then went back in to purchase them. It doesn't seem like his area got the worst of it, but I imagine the feeling is the same around the country. From what I gather, looting wouldn't be commonplace because no one would want to stand out. Then again, human nature being what it is, I wouldn't be surprised to find that there was a little crime that just got unreported.

 

[Perfice]

There are people who look down on Japan for being weird? WTF.
This is the first I've ever heard about this.

Sometimes in the discussions here, yes. Also in the media, with repeated travel programs, etc about Japan just focusing on the wierd / bad, not on the good. Like a lot of the stories comming out about people forgetting very expensive belongings, then comming back to find them still there. I had not heard any of this before....

That's what I means by a bit of a negative bias, hence I wanted to make a thread to point out some of the positive.

Well, mostly Aussie's and British people go to these forums from what I've seen so it might be a cultural thing. I've had people talk about the vending machine thing but usually they say JP is awesome for it. I lived in JP for the last two years and I've still never seen any of these vending machines personally.

 

[Fetzenfisch]

Well if you count "searching the rubble that once was our city for useful things" then there is indeed a lot of looting. But without stores to storm it just doesnt look like it

According to this: http://www.peterpayne.net/2011/03/japan-earthquake-update.html the opposite is true. People who were shopping actually waited outside with their items and then went back in to purchase them. It doesn't seem like his area got the worst of it, but I imagine the feeling is the same around the country. From what I gather, looting wouldn't be commonplace because no one would want to stand out. Then again, human nature being what it is, I wouldn't be surprised to find that there was a little crime that just got unreported.

according to the pictures in the news what i discribed is indeed the case. its just not seen as crime because everyone forgot to label all the things they had in their houses that dont exist any more. Its just more "not wasting what might still be good", but technically its still theft.

 

[beniki]

If it wasnt for the tsunamis, earthquakes and nuclear reactor explosions, Japan seems like a nice place to live, aside from the fact Japan seems a bit crazy at times.

Damn I envy them. Why couldnt the UK be more like that ? Werent we big on manners, where did we go wrong T.T

To be fair the manners here are like automatic responses. It's nice to hear the 'please's, 'thank you's and 'welcome in's, but you do feel the lack of real meaning there.

Although I do share your regret at the concept of the English gentleman, and the British stiff upper lip being regarded as unfashionable back home.

It's still very much appreciated elsewhere in the world... pack up your stuff and go be as British as you can in a different country. Truly there is nothing more British than that!

O.T: The Japanese live very closely to one another. The apartment I'm in right now has such thin walls that I could probably have a conversation with the person in the next flat. Everyone is in each other's sight all the time. After a while that just makes politeness and not breaking the rules second nature.

 

[Flauros]

people confuse otaku culture with all of japan.

Alot of japanese hate otaku culture. Just remember the OTHER Japanese stereotype, the Honorable one.

 

[Popido]

They're well united sociaty and they had prepared for catastrophes like this to happen, so it didnt come completely out of the blue for them.

Did people expect looting?

Well when America was hit with hurricane Katrina, there was alot looting and raping involved.

 

[ChupathingyX]

I've always loved japan for all it's quirkiness. All those hilarious TV commercials and there are a lot of crazy animes and mangas that I enjoy. There's stuff Japan has created that no other country has anyhting remotely similar. Plus they have some really rich and interesting history(samurai and ninjas anyone?) and they have really iconic architecture, both medeval and modern.

Also about the looting the thing is that from what I've seen there isn't really anything to loot.

 

[xPixelatedx]

Why is any of that a surprise? Japan is famous for being a clean and polite society with very little crime.

Any idea someone might have had to the contrary would be entirely based on a raciest (or otherwise illogical) assumption. What assumption that might be I haven't the slightest idea because none of the Japanese stereotypes could be relevant.

From our corporations to the every-man, we all have something to learn from Japan's example right now about being decent human beings. If anything we should be re-evaluating ourselves right now.

 

[Toriver]

Damn I envy them. Why couldnt the UK be more like that ? Werent we big on manners, where did we go wrong T.T

Because we are less tolerant when other people arn't as polite as us. We are also very jaded and cynical as a nation and have a lack of national pride. The Japanese are very proud of their country and their people as whole.

Were we always like that ?

Thought the victorian times was everyone had to have loads of annoying manners about everything. Why couldnt our culture just have frozen then. We dont have pride anymore, thats for sure, but we had pride. Allthough I dont see how pride is relivant here. Still I envy them, japan must be a great place to live if you get over the weird things they come out with, and also how are they big on manners ? Isnt there a real problem with groping and other pervy stuff in the trains there ?

TBH, Japan is awesome... if you're Japanese. If not, prepare to feel really weird for a while. The Japanese will be really nice and polite to you, but they will take a long, LONG time to really trust you as they would another Japanese person. Add to that the very unique language and other cultural things that just go with culture shock, and it can get to be a hassle for a foreigner moving here. They don't really tell you much of anything you need to watch out for either, just trusting you'll figure it out on your own. In other words, they don't really know how to deal with anything foreign to them, and will assume you're just like the stereotypes they've seen of foreigners in the media, or exactly like the last foreigner they may have met. In a sense, they're a lot like Americans who've never been outside the country that way. Trust me, I know from experience... Also, it's expensive to live here, even compared to America.

But as far as politeness goes, the "worker-bee culture" thing is very true, and within that culture, and even within the language, is a pronounced emphasis on respect for one's role and place within the group. You speak differently to people at different levels of authority in the group, and you show different levels of politeness accordingly. Those at the top have more leeway in how polite they have to be to those under them, while the ones near the bottom have to be very polite to everyone above them in the hierarchy. There's also different ways of acting and speaking depending on how close you are with somebody. You would talk and act much differently with a friend you know on a first-name basis than with somebody you're meeting for the first time. This is especially true in a business environment. If you're just going out to the bar or something, you might act the same towards everyone, but if you're on a business trip, you really have to be careful of how you act and speak towards the people you're working with. It's all to preserve social harmony, which the Japanese value strongly, perhaps more so than individual rights. It's rather ironic that Japan has the collectivist, "worker bee" culture and yet has a very conservative, capitalist political economy, yet Communist China has more of an emphasis on the individual in its culture than Japan does.

I think the West's almost downright rejection of politeness and courtesy in our culture is a product really of the last 50-60 years or so. As people have pushed the boundaries of individualism and free speech, mass communication became ever easier, and people began pushing the envelope just to see how much they could get away with, we've come to just get used to our television, music, movies and even general speech just spewing obscenities right and left at anyone who has ears to listen. Further, our focus on individualism has also been much more encouraging of the individual fighting against authority than in Japan, and in the confrontational nature of our society, there will always be someone we want to direct our disrespect towards. In a "me, me, me" culture, people will be much less willing to offer someone a base level of respect until they "earn" it than in Japan, where people are just expected to at least respect each other enough to work together for the greater good, no matter how much the individuals may actually despise one another.

At least among English-speakers, I also have a theory about the influence of non-native speakers, but that could get rather controversial, so I won't push that one.

Anyway, that's just my take on it. I also feel like the West really needs to make a gravely serious re-evaluation of its own culture, and how much we respect one another is high on the list of things I feel we need to look at. Sorry this may be TLR, but I find the subject really interesting.

 

[ph0b0s123]

Why is any of that a surprise? Japan is famous for being a clean and polite society with very little crime.

Any idea someone might have had to the contrary would be entirely based on a raciest (or otherwise illogical) assumption. What assumption that might be I haven't the slightest idea because none of the Japanese stereotypes could be relevant.

From our corporations to the every-man, we all have something to learn from Japan's example right now about being decent human beings. If anything we should be re-evaluating ourselves right now.

I agree, but before it becomes a love fest, I know I would get a very different view about the Japanese from anyone who was Japanese POW during WWII. Just saying.....

But then maybe the Japanese have 'grown up' since then. The same way the Germans have. We British are no poster children for treatment of other nationalities in the past either.

 

[Scorched_Cascade]

Damn I envy them. Why couldnt the UK be more like that ? Werent we big on manners, where did we go wrong T.T

Because we are less tolerant when other people arn't as polite as us. We are also very jaded and cynical as a nation and have a lack of national pride. The Japanese are very proud of their country and their people as whole.

Were we always like that ?

Thought the victorian times was everyone had to have loads of annoying manners about everything. Why couldnt our culture just have frozen then. We dont have pride anymore, thats for sure, but we had pride. Allthough I dont see how pride is relivant here. Still I envy them, japan must be a great place to live if you get over the weird things they come out with, and also how are they big on manners ? Isnt there a real problem with groping and other pervy stuff in the trains there ?

*snipped*[they] will assume you're just like the stereotypes they've seen of foreigners in the media, or exactly like the last foreigner they may have met. In a sense, they're a lot like Americans who've never been outside the country that way. Trust me, I know from experience... Also, it's expensive to live here, even compared to America.

There's actually a condition called "Paris Syndrome" which happens to a fair amount of Japanese people when they first visit France. It doesn't match up to the stereotypes they believe about it and they go into massive culture shock consisting of:

"acute delusional states, hallucinations, feelings of persecution (delusions of being a victim of prejudice, aggression, or hostility from others), derealization, depersonalization, anxiety, and also psychosomatic manifestations such as dizziness, tachycardia, sweating"

Due to a) being unable to reconcile France with the picture their media has told them about it and b) how informal (and seemingly rude to a Japanese person) French society and culture is.

 

[Toriver]

There's actually a condition called "Paris Syndrome" which happens to a fair amount of Japanese people when they first visit France. It doesn't match up to the stereotypes they believe about it and they go into massive culture shock consisting of:

"acute delusional states, hallucinations, feelings of persecution (delusions of being a victim of prejudice, aggression, or hostility from others), derealization, depersonalization, anxiety, and also psychosomatic manifestations such as dizziness, tachycardia, sweating"

Due to a) being unable to reconcile France with the picture their media has told them about it and b) how informal (and seemingly rude to a Japanese person) French society and culture is.

I've heard of it. The Japanese people I met in America never seemed to experience it, though, so that was good. I can't remember where I heard about it, though...

 

[Flames66]

Did people expect looting?
-snip-

In most other countries when disaster hits and supplys are short you normaly see looting. Was it obvious that this would not happen in Japan. Shops cutting their prices also seemed to be something that would not happen elsewhere.

So it begs the question, why is Japan different and is there something we can learn. And should we give Japan's supposed weirdness more respect than we do?

Japan's society is generally more polite and more communal. I don't claim to be an expert but you can tell because the Yakuza, the main criminal organisation there, was the main provider of aid at several previous natural disasters.

 

[Scorched_Cascade]

But then maybe the Japanese have 'grown up' since then. The same way the Germans have. We British are no poster children for treatment of other nationalities in the past either.

Germany has grown up yes but I wouldn't compare the Japenese to them. Germans are only just regaining their sense of national pride. I lived with 3 German girls over a year and this comic pretty much details what they grew up with:

Spoiler: (SatW) comic spoilered as its a little long; accurate though

Japan, however, is very proud of their country.

 

[octafish]

I really wouldn't expect looting, I was told off by an old lady for crossing the road against the lights. The Japanese have a strong national identity, a sense of duty towards others, and a respect for the law. It never occurred to me that there would be any looting at all.