Alright, I'm going to start with the only place that matter since my original post was only about how the TF2 crate system can fall under the same 'Gacha' laws that are impacting these Japanese social games. It's not entirely based around those things. I understand that. But the central mechanic behind it could still be considered a large enough part where it could possibly be looked at when deciding what action to take with that law. My posts was not an attack on TF2, just making a comment that it can easily be considered similar when looking at the games this article actually talks about.
Treblaine said:
Hmm, the crates is interesting but the odds of what you find in every crate is listed. You know the odds and aren't lied to "oooh, if you're lucky - and you should be - you'll get it"
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Mann_Co._Supply_Crate
The problem with this logic is that, while an external source does give you the odds, the game itself only lists 'an exceedingly rare special item.' It does say exceedingly rare, but it doesn't really give the player any sort of idea how much of a chance they really have. Which is something I'm fairly confident you could do with most other Gacha-based systems. So you don't 'know the odds' if your someone new to the game.
Now, for the rest of the post, just because I'm somewhat bored. I likely won't take it much past this post though because it's not really the point I was trying to make to begin with.
Well I chose metacritics because how can you get a more objective measure of worth? Metacritic isn't good for distinguishing a 85% from a 92% but it is good from distinguishing a 90% game from a 50% game. I'm not using metacritic to indicate that is it "great" simply that it is not-shit. It functions as a game and I added the 2007 qualifier for how this was before any alternate items or random drops were implemented.
I'm not saying EVERYONE likes TF2, I'm saying you can enjoy it just for the gameplay, the fragging and point capturing and so on. It isn't entirely dependent upon spending loads of money for a miniscule change of getting anything other than nothing as in Gacha games. All the other items add variety to what is an inherently good game for those who suits it's tastes.
My point against that was that giving numbers which are based solely on the opinions of reviews is not really a good method of providing proof for someone when it's entirely based on opinion. It may not be dependant on that system where you are spending quite a lot for a very small chance at anything decent/worthwhile, but that system is there. That's not really a stab at the game as much as saying that it does have a similar, if less central, system in it's gameplay.
Give me any documented example of someone who logs onto TF2 just for the random drops of items and when they get then NEVER uses them. That would be "just there for the items" and I have to ask, what is the cost to them? It uses up their system memory running their program idling and takes up a valuable slot on servers but it doesn't cost them anything as not only does TF2 have no subscription fee, it doesn't cost a penny to get started. OK, you do have to put a minimum of £4 in you wallet to buy ANYTHING to increase the size of your inventory but that's hardly comparable to the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
There are a lot of people who idle just to get items. Many of these people are traders who will never use them. They melt the weapons into scrap, and trade the hats to the highest bidder. I know this because I do it myself, as do many traders. You see, each hat is worth at least about a Refined. A refined is worth roughly $.60 last time I check. You normally get enough weapons if you don't get a hat to make about a refined, even if you have to scrap-bank. So the people who do this have no interest in the items themselves, only in selling them for either Steam games or straight cash.
And you're right, it's not one person spending hundreds of thousands of dollars. But adding atogether the number of people who buys keys, not to mention having to put $5 (or four pounds judging by your post) in order to get a premium membership, the money put into it to have the better random drops and have the chance for the big items adds up quickly. Hell, I once saw a person with I believe 50 keys unbox 50 crates. He got one low-tier hat with a low-level effect and a bunch of stranges. The reason I mention this is because those 50 keys translate into $125 spent on keys for one person for the crate system alone. It might not sound like much, but I'm sure that Valve makes a LOT of money off keys.
Everything else you can get by random drop, the difference is the Strange Attribute, now that's only useful for gameplay, tracking kills and various other point contributions. Paying for a gameplay enhancement that does NOT give any unfair advantage... what is the problem? There is no chance you will pay and get NOTHING, you'll always get something but which?
It's like a random sweet mix you buy with your friends, if you like the green ones and hate the red ones you don't have to buy another random mix, just trade sweets with your friends. What kind of person buys a dozen random sweets and only eats the 1/6th they like and discard the rest?!?!?
Quick question: When did I ever mention this Gacha system giving anyone an unfair advantage? I have stated that it's there, because it is. But you're right, having a strange item doesn't make a lick of difference. That's why in terms of trading they're basically considered worthless before very long after release (a few exceptions being stranges from rare crates like #30). You're right that you never get nothing at all. Well, depending on your definition, you aren't getting anything because it's a virtual item, hence the law's problem with these social games instead of, say, Magic or Yugioh cards. But I agree you don't get nothing. But the value of what you get differs wildly depending on what you manage to draw.
Then there is the TRADING aspect. Say you open Crate #43, you want the Strange Shortstop but instead get the Strange Tribalman's Shiv. Well you didn't get something worthless, you can trade with someone who got the Strange shortstop who want the Strange Tribalman's Shiv.
Yes, certain weapons suit certain playstyles, hence the trading system. That's how I got The Original (I like how the rocket fires straight down the crosshairs) I traded it with someone who didn't like playing soldier so I gave him one of my extra items from one of my less used classes. Trading to suit each's playstyle.
Trade with your friends or if traing with strangers then enter into trading with reasonable terms and the right mindset like:
be polite...
...be efficient....
...and have a plan to trade with everyone you meet!
If you manage to find someone who wants your Strange Shiv and has a Strange Shortstop. The problem is that stranges aren't all equally valueable. You might get lucky and find someone who has the item/s that you want, but what do you think the chances are that you'll find someone who has exactly what you want and wants exactly what you have? Now, you might have a friend who has something you want. Maybe they don't need and will trade you. But I've run into plenty of times when I've had something I've needed, my friend has had it, but he wouldn't trade it to me because he liked it and was still using it. I don't fault him for that of course. But it does mean that I had to delve into the trading areas for what I wanted and never managed to find one for a good deal.
The better bet is to look for traders. That's why sites like tf2outpost exist. But the problem with that is that many people are asking for absurd items. Most won't take items for items. Many want metal, keys, Bills, buds, Max heads, etc. Things that are considered the basic 'currency' for the TF2 market.
Now, most standard items are easy to get. Your run of the mill weapon will cost you 1 scrap most of the time. But when you get into harder to find items, then the cost begins to rise. As it should mind you. TF2 is one of the best examples of a free market, though Valve does have control over it to some degree (A good example of some traders getting screwed over is the Paper Hat ordeal). But this leads to the fact that a lot of people who go into trading without knowledge of what they're doing get ripped off pretty quickly. Someone might walk away happy they got standard hat x by trading the glowy one they didn't care for, but not realize the glowy one was worth about $60 and the one they got is worth about $.60.
But to be clear about one thing, all of that doesn't matter to my original point. Those are problems with the trading system. And they are going to happen pretty much no matter what. People were trading stuff long before the actual trading system was in place. The problems of the trading system really don't influence my point on the crate system all that much. They are two seperate sections of the game with their own benefits and faults.
