Japanese Censors: Sexually Aggressive Women Turn Kids Gay

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Kuth

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Jan 14, 2009
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This sounds about right coming from a heavily conservative nation such as Japan. Victorian era is a good example. While it was proper not to do anything sexual, in private.. well... I just dare you to look at Victorian porn, some of that stuff makes me blush.

Even so, Sex, at least from what I gathered, in Japan is pretty much male are dominant period. Female being dominant is such a foreign thing in Japan and most would actually be afraid to allow women be in control of the relationship.
 

Fbuh

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Feb 3, 2009
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Xiado said:
Ugh, another example of why I hate Japanese society. This is yet another facet of the sexist mindset that sex is an activity to be enjoyed by the man only, and that a woman "gives" her body to the man as some selfless sacrifice. No wonder that their society is so sexually repressed, if it refuses to admit that sex is a mutual partnership rather than a one-sided act. It's times like this that make me think that the US isn't really that bad after all.
Their society? I'm assuming you haven't been actively living in the US then, because it's pretty much the exact same way that sexuality is treated here.
 

David Farnell

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Apr 24, 2010
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The_ModeRazor said:
How do you prove to a person that what they perceive as "logical" and "reasonabe" is, in fact, flying monkeyfuck insane? Because I have no idea whatsoever other than shouting that fact at them loud as I can. And I know that doesn't work at all.
Google "Debunking Handbook." It's a PDF produced by a couple of psychologists from the University of Western Australia that gives simple instructions on how to talk to people who believe ridiculous myths.
 

BehattedWanderer

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Jun 24, 2009
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So...strong, forward women turn us gay? How the hell does that make sense. Oh well. Japan seems to have gone either the wrong way or too far in the normal direction for equal perspectives on women. Well done, Japan, for hitting the ball out of the park, through the foul ball zone.
 

TheNaut131

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Jul 6, 2011
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I think this sums up my feelings quite nicely.


(wow, haven't used that in a while...felt good.)
 

SnakeoilSage

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Sep 20, 2011
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And then he went home and had sex with his pillow which has a picture of Mai Shiranui with a penis on it.
 

Syntax Error

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Never has an article image and content elicited more WTF from me before. Kitten nipples...

Also, I wonder which logic path someone will need to follow to come up with a conclusion like that.
 

zefiris

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Dec 3, 2011
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While I thing we are all in agreement that the real thing should stay illegal, there's actually been studies where cases of sexual abuse of minors INCREASED when real child porn was banned in countries where it is not banned in.

Assuming that it wasn't just a freak thing
It was a freak thing in studies using far too low numbers to be statistically relevant. This is especially important because the studies you mention are methodologically flawed heavily. For instance, they completely ignore that the production of child porn already involved sexual abuse of children. And even when numbers go up, this is usually not because there are more cases (see below)

Real child porn doesn't fall from the sky. Real child porn is created by people raping (and often murdering) real children. These children are victims too, so in any case, real child porn would have to be banned and persecuted. The consumption of (and therefore demand for) child porn creates more sexual abuse of children simply because creating real child porn requires someone raping children, and then spreading evidence of the rape. These children simply are never accounted for in statistics, they are usually living in a different country (with very lax laws, so chance of persecution is low, and thus they are kept out of statistics)


Another thing that there is a gargantuan fallacy in the thought process you mention.
If something is illegal now, and wasn't illegal before, numbers of it being persecuted (and thus found) will often raise. This is painfully obvious: It will usually not be counted before it is illegal. Real child porn being banned usually goes along with awareness for sexual abuse of children, which means that this then raises the number of cases that are reported and persecuted.

A policeman that would, a few years earlier, tell the child to man up and stop lying may now be forced to take the child seriously. Teachers may look closer to the one teacher that keeps going into the girl's dressing room after swimming practice, and react quicker when he takes a girl to his bed during a class trip to "calm her down".

These are real examples, by the way. I remember when these things happened when I was in school. The teacher was infamous among us girls. All classes knew. Fifth years were warned (by students, teachers didn't give a damn) not to go with him into his room because he might undress and photograph you. Parents didn't take it seriously (he was such a "jolly good chap"!), and the school didn't do a thing. I myself complained several times, others did as well. Nothing happened. Nobody cared.

Fifteen years later(!), after dozens of molestations, and hundreds of times he oogled girls dressing, after people talking about this for years, he got arrested. Laws in the meantime had toughened up, the media began to report on cases like this, people were taking complaints seriously. And when the principal of the school changed, and a younger one came into office, he didn't look away when someone complained.

Some people will now go "the law changed, stuff is now really persecuted, and look, the abuse cases went up!"
Sure it did. Because it was completely ignored earlier. Doesn't mean it didn't happen earlier and the law created more cases. The abuses existed before this. It's just that nobody gave a damn.

Why is this case relevant? Well, he was eventually persecuted for the photos he took. It'd be an exemplary case that would show up in a flawed statistic as an additional case discovered after the laws were toughened up.
 

Xman490

Doctorate in Danger
May 29, 2010
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I thought the subtitle statement was from scientific research. I was foolish not to notice the "Japanese Censors" title.

Also, prejudices do not arise from only one media series, but from the collective media. For example, many romantic movies depict an idea that men are the "heroes" while women usually cannot fight for themselves. Whether or not such depictions of reality when shown collectively are ethical is something I am no expert in.
 

Rarhnor

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Jun 2, 2010
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faranar said:
So you turn 25 without ever having a relationship with a girl an you practically have two options - turn gay in pursuit of happiness or kill yourself(Japan is in the top 5 countries by suicide rate). Both of those aren't helping in a country with a serious demographic deficit
Implying that ones happiness is tied to an other person.
I know you probably didn't mean it that way, I just wanted to point it out.

OT: A bit silly issue, if I you ask me. I believe the committee is making a bigger deal out of it than it really is, but since Japan is such a hive-mind culture, and with idols and role models being a big part of its culture, I could see this turn into an actual concern. Still, as far as I know, Japanese women are already romantically aggressive, and things usually go crazy fast with them, so I don't personally see this as issue.
 

ph0b0s123

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Jul 7, 2010
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zefiris said:
While I thing we are all in agreement that the real thing should stay illegal, there's actually been studies where cases of sexual abuse of minors INCREASED when real child porn was banned in countries where it is not banned in.

Assuming that it wasn't just a freak thing
It was a freak thing in studies using far too low numbers to be statistically relevant. This is especially important because the studies you mention are methodologically flawed heavily. For instance, they completely ignore that the production of child porn already involved sexual abuse of children. And even when numbers go up, this is usually not because there are more cases (see below)

Real child porn doesn't fall from the sky. Real child porn is created by people raping (and often murdering) real children. These children are victims too, so in any case, real child porn would have to be banned and persecuted. The consumption of (and therefore demand for) child porn creates more sexual abuse of children simply because creating real child porn requires someone raping children, and then spreading evidence of the rape. These children simply are never accounted for in statistics, they are usually living in a different country (with very lax laws, so chance of persecution is low, and thus they are kept out of statistics)


Another thing that there is a gargantuan fallacy in the thought process you mention.
If something is illegal now, and wasn't illegal before, numbers of it being persecuted (and thus found) will often raise. This is painfully obvious: It will usually not be counted before it is illegal. Real child porn being banned usually goes along with awareness for sexual abuse of children, which means that this then raises the number of cases that are reported and persecuted.

A policeman that would, a few years earlier, tell the child to man up and stop lying may now be forced to take the child seriously. Teachers may look closer to the one teacher that keeps going into the girl's dressing room after swimming practice, and react quicker when he takes a girl to his bed during a class trip to "calm her down".

These are real examples, by the way. I remember when these things happened when I was in school. The teacher was infamous among us girls. All classes knew. Fifth years were warned (by students, teachers didn't give a damn) not to go with him into his room because he might undress and photograph you. Parents didn't take it seriously (he was such a "jolly good chap"!), and the school didn't do a thing. I myself complained several times, others did as well. Nothing happened. Nobody cared.

Fifteen years later(!), after dozens of molestations, and hundreds of times he oogled girls dressing, after people talking about this for years, he got arrested. Laws in the meantime had toughened up, the media began to report on cases like this, people were taking complaints seriously. And when the principal of the school changed, and a younger one came into office, he didn't look away when someone complained.

Some people will now go "the law changed, stuff is now really persecuted, and look, the abuse cases went up!"
Sure it did. Because it was completely ignored earlier. Doesn't mean it didn't happen earlier and the law created more cases. The abuses existed before this. It's just that nobody gave a damn.

Why is this case relevant? Well, he was eventually persecuted for the photos he took. It'd be an exemplary case that would show up in a flawed statistic as an additional case discovered after the laws were toughened up.
That is an awful example and it is a real shame this awful man's behavior was tolerated for so long. I hope he will get a fitting punishment.

The amount of offensives will also go up after the recent law changes in for example the UK regarding drawings, the topic here, as scope of what is considered criminal, has just been increased. So the amount of sexual offenders will go up if only by those now considered as breaking the law by having drawings. What should be looked at and be important is the actual abuse to actual child, which your is example is definitely one. Do these increase or decrease after this law change. If people having drawings, which are objectionable by nature, but where by definition no actual abuse has taken place in their production, decreases actual abuse to children, it may not be nice, but I would accept it. It is the final result that counts.

I don't think anyone here (at least I hope not) even the post you quoted, is seriously suggesting that child abuse material of real children should be produced to stop people offending. That is dumb, but drawings. That is a whole different question.
 

V8 Ninja

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You know what's the worst part about all of this?

I think I know what manga the picture in the header comes from. GOD DAMN-IT, JAPAN!!!
 

xdiesp

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Risum abundat in ore stultorum.

You'd be surprised how many in the world find the opinions of an american way more ridiculous than someone's from japan. Quick, unholster your gun there's an illegal racial minority around!
 

RanceJustice

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Feb 25, 2011
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Manga, especially those dealing with love and/or sex, can sometimes have very extreme circumstances. Be it a young woman who is mentally and physically "broken" by men and women in a type of extreme BDSM, until she's just a shell of a person that can think of none else but being a receptacle for genitals, or one where an apparently sweet young woman drugs, poisons, and mutiliates the boy she "loves" (look up "yandare"), some crazy shit happens.

People should know that "Boys Love" and similar more pornographic manga are basically intended for women, and contains a lot of male homosexual relationships and sex. Where in the West it is a commonly held belief that a lot of men like to watch female homosexual activity, in Japan (and other nations, spreading into the west along with the manga) it is not uncommon for straight women to take great interest and become "Yaoi fangirls". The majority of those fanfiction stories on the net that put straight male characters from anywhere (Harry potter, star wars, star trek, popular anime etc...) into homosexual relationships and acts? Written by women often after their exposure to "boys love" and similar manga.

In such manga, it isn't uncommon for the homosexuality to be "forced" or "coerced", especially by a woman. The trope of a strong willed and sexually free female "class president" (usually, with a curvy figure) who sexually harasses the beautiful and slightly drawn male characters and then either "punishes" their lack of sexual prowess by making them engage in sexual acts with another male student or results in them finding comfort from her cruelty in the arms of likely an older male student, with whom a sexual relationship follows is not a horribly uncommon trope.

Now, I'm not saying this to support this ruling - just because something happens in manga doesn't mean it is going to translate to real life, but I just wanted to frame the whole "Sexually aggressive woman pushes or results in male homosexuality" thing as something that is actually present in the media. There is also the belief in "roles" so to speak, where in a sexual relationship it is right for one person to be "passive, receptive" and the other to be "active, giving", so this leads a lot of older folks to think that if a woman is taking the "active" role, it will lead to the man's continual passivity. Remember that in the West, even fifty years ago, calling a woman "a dead fish" in bed on account of her lack of participation was clearly a negative, where a woman described similarly (usually as "maguro" if I recall, which translates to "tuna", a high class and highly desired fish) is seen as highly desirable; such a woman would fulfill the "passive" role very well and therefore would be considered good in bed.

I oppose censorship in all its forms, so I hope this ruling will be overturned soon. I'm actually pretty surprised that the DPJ would do something like this, but then again this is more a "local" prefectural thing so I guess anything is possible. Japan is grappling with a lot of issues in which sex and relationships are focal points (ie. birth rate, "sheep men", overworked and stressed people, women's roles and more) and this is clearly a bunch of older men trying to stomp out "perversion" so that young men will "do the right thing", which to the elders means become salarymen and have a family. Youth of course are resisting this, often because of American-style capitalism having wounded the Japanese faith in their government and society's support - many safety nets have been removed for the profit of a few multinationals, which doesn't gel with the Japanese collective psyche - one reason that the DPJ, a more left-leaning party, had control of the diet for the first time in decades.

Hopefully, the citizenry will see that censorship is not the answer and provide more social programs like the "stay cool" initiative encouraging people not to overwork and instead spend time with their family, rebuild the social nets so that everyone can afford health care and safety in their old age, and encourage healthier relationships between partners. If they stem the effect of avaricious hyper-capitalism with strong socialized programs that put the welfare of the Japanese people first, the peripheral problems will solve themselves in time, without these frivolous and unhelpful policies.
 

the spud

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May 2, 2011
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Well, at the very least, this gives me some hope, secure with the knowledge that America isn't the only place with retarded politicians.