Japanese RPG's and why I don't like 'em

[Vedalken]

Why does people seem to think that other people care about what they don't like?

I do not like lemons, because they are sour. Discuss.

I do not like raw lemons either, haha. But this is just general discussion forum i thought, Meaning in my head to discuss anything freely, whether it be of love or loathing of a game or aspect of a game.

 

[Rusman]

Well, The first final fantasy games I played were Final fantasy X and the one with the 3 chicks ( X2 or something) And they really turned me off from the whole genre.

So you played a couple then hate the whole genre?

OT: I like JRPGs and WRPGs, Oblivion is easily one of my favourite games as is Tales of Symphonia.
Tales of Symphonia does plenty of thing right by not having random encounters and live action fighting. Plus the story was pretty cool and most of the characters were awesome (Zelos).

I really don't mind the "linearity" of them. In Yahtzee's own words; sometimes its nice to have a tailored game experience written by professionals (I am paraphrasing slightly ). Other times its nice to be plonked into a nice environment with the words "Go nuts"

 

[_Serendipity_]

Why does people seem to think that other people care about what they don't like?

I do not like lemons, because they are sour. Discuss.

BURN THE WITCH!!!

Delock, I know games are linear for a majority, however i am comparing JRPG's with WRPG's.

On topic: You know, Pizza is shit. I mean, compared to brick it makes for an awful building material.

I will be frank with you, my friend, your argument makes no sense. Linear storytelling and gameplay is different from open-world storytelling and gameplay. Some prefer it, some hate it. Arguning, however, that JRPGs are bad because they aren't WRPGs is just... confusing.

 

[Vedalken]

Well, The first final fantasy games I played were Final fantasy X and the one with the 3 chicks ( X2 or something) And they really turned me off from the whole genre.

So you played a couple then hate the whole genre?

OT: I like JRPGs and WRPGs, Oblivion is easily one of my favourite games as is Tales of Symphonia.
Tales of Symphonia does plenty of thing right by not having random encounters and live action fighting. Plus the story was pretty cool and most of the characters were awesome (Zelos).

I really don't mind the "linearity" of them. In Yahtzee's own words; sometimes its nice to have a tailored game experience written by professionals (I am paraphrasing slightly ). Other times its nice to be plonked into a nice environment with the words "Go nuts"

I agree in the aspect that some games need to be linear, I am a big fan of platformers, and games like that need to be linear, I don't want the world to change by the amount of times I jump, and Oblivion is one of my favorite games of all time. Also when you play a prime example of a genre Like FF to JRPG's, then it instills a mindset.

 

[SAMAS]

Before I say this, let me announce that I love Bioware RPG's. That being said, I hate JRPG's, the reason for this being is that I can't change the story.

You can't change the story in a Bioware RPG, either. You get two or more paths, and you choose which one you end up with.

You also can't change the story in any other game. So why only dislike one genre for it?

Well, there are many other factors, like the fact that there are spunky androgynous male teens fapping about with their odd hair styles and weapons the size of motorcycles.

*sigh* Not this shit again... You are, perhaps, unaware that there are characters other than Cloud Strife?

Does this gentleman look like he's carrying a large sword? (Haken Browning, Super Robot Taisen OG Saga: Endless Frontier)

Does this one look particularly effeminate? (Reiji Arisu, Namco x Capcom, SRT OG Saga)

He doesn't even use a sword. (Adell, Disgaea 2)

The only reason you could call her effeminate is because she's a girl. Also, no sword. (Cornet, Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure)

It'd be kind of hard to call her feminine (but if she's in earshot, you damn well better try!). (Prier, La Pucelle Tactics)

This is Isaac, the protagonist of the first Golden Sun game. If anybody could be said to be a "standard" JRPG protagonist, it's him. He's the Japanese equivalent of "30-42-year-old Space Marine with a buzz-cut and permastubble." If you're gonna stereotype, get it right.

But the main reason is that for an RPG, JRPG's are very linear, sure you can go over the landscape as much as you want, and fight every imp you'd like. But the story will remain the same. My question(s) are do you like JRPG's? If so do you have reasons to support them? Or are you like me and think they suck?

One should note that ultimately, all games are linear. BioWare games are usually one story with a few wobbles and a split at the end depending on which moral edge you choose to throw yourself off of.

But I guess the illusion of choice counts for something, even if it's only between Saint and Serial Killer.

 

[Vedalken]

_Serendipity_, its just that when I play an RPG, i dont want to have a story told to me like in The World Ends With You, i kinda wanna have some choice as to what happens, but that wasn't my only complaint.

 

[Rusman]

I agree in the aspect that some games need to be linear, I am a big fan of platformers, and games like that need to be linear, I don't want the world to change by the amount of times I jump, and Oblivion is one of my favorite games of all time. Also when you play a prime example of a genre Like FF to JRPG's, then it instills a mindset.

I guess with a power-house like the FF series it does seem to be just this IS JRPG's but there are so many others that do thing much better than FF.

I mean JRPG's are probably my favourite genre of games but I hate FF games with a passion and I have actually sat down and played 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 8, 10, and 12. Would be just my luck that 4, 6, 9 and 11 are amazing... I doubt it though.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

Before I say this, let me announce that I love Bioware RPG's. That being said, I hate JRPG's, the reason for this being is that I can't change the story. Well, there are many other factors, like the fact that there are spunky androgynous male teens fapping about with their odd hair styles and weapons the size of motorcycles. And the colossal dragons made of fire that randomly appear the second you step on a certain daisy in the middle of a field. But the main reason is that for an RPG, JRPG's are very linear, sure you can go over the landscape as much as you want, and fight every imp you'd like. But the story will remain the same. My question(s) are do you like JRPG's? If so do you have reasons to support them? Or are you like me and think they suck?

Back when I started playing videogames the only Western Developed RPG's that had story's were Fallout 1 and Fallout 2, everything else was either a Hack and Slasher or a Dungeon Crawl with little plot to speak of. If you liked stories you played JRPG's, and I liked stories so I played JRPG's, hence I will always have a soft spot for them... as long as they're well made. This current generation hasn't been very kind to JRPG's, they didn't "update" very well with the only decent ones being Tales of Vesperia, Lost Odyssey and now Final Fantasy 13.

 

[_Serendipity_]

-snip-

...and Oblivion is one of my favorite games of all time.

-snip-

Ahh, interesting point on Oblivion, because it is an example of a game suffering badly from the open world. It was great fun as a world, I spent weeks just bowling around and doing random quests, stabbing Goblins and finding mad Bethesda easter-eggs.

It was a terrible game though.

By which I mean, the main story quest was 100% junk that I felt as involved in (which is a major selling-point of WRPGs, I believe) as I am in modern Algerian politics. When it forced me down the story, it was so watered-down so that it could apply to several million different characters , all of whom were different genders, races, classes and backgrounds that it was down-right crappy. Great world, great mechanics, crappy game,

You know, Bioware games are much much more linear than you would think, they just hide it really cleverly. This isn't a criticism, by the way (ME2 best game of '10?), but just an observation. They make the changes you exact seem important, but actually you only change relatively superficial things when all's said & done.

 

[Sassafrass]

CAN'T TALK LONG, PLAYING FINAL FANTASY 13.

Same as him.
But on topic, so I don't get wrath, come back to me when you've played something other then FF VII, as that sounds exactly like the game you have described in the OP.
Not all JRPGs are like that one example.

Now excuse me while I go back to loving FF XIII, sir/madam/thing from Tring.

 

[Vedalken]

PedroSteckecilo, exactly with the story thing, they've used the same stories over and over for JRPGs, come to think of it, for RPG's in general, I guess thats something you can scorn all RPG's for.

 

[SAMAS]

_Serendipity_, its just that when I play an RPG, i dont want to have a story told to me like in The World Ends With You, i kinda wanna have some choice as to what happens, but that wasn't my only complaint.

I don't mind having choices, but I'll only demand them once they become more than just Pargon of Good and Ultimate Evil.

Case in point: Most games, more and more give us antagonists who actually have sympathetic goals or motives. What if, and at an early point in the game, you got the opportunity to choose to help him, rather than just opposing his methods? Join his cause and steer him away from causing unnecessary suffering?

Or as one article/post on the subject put it: Make the Karma Meter moments connected. Say if you have the option to help a slave girl free herself, then later you run into her working at a restaurant, and can make her poison an enemy or rival?

 

[Vedalken]

Serendipity, you stumped me, that is very true about Oblivion, and ME2 will probably get game of the year even though i despise it.

 

[TheSupremeForce]

I mean JRPG's are probably my favourite genre of games but I hate FF games with a passion and I have actually sat down and played 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 8, 10, and 12. Would be just my luck that 4, 6, 9 and 11 are amazing... I doubt it though.

Actually, 4, 6, and 9 are my three favorite Final Fantasies (along with Tactics). Therefore, I would consider them to be the best in the series and certainly qualify as "amazing."
You probably don't care, but I found the situation amusing. It is "your luck."

 

[Rusman]

I mean JRPG's are probably my favourite genre of games but I hate FF games with a passion and I have actually sat down and played 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 8, 10, and 12. Would be just my luck that 4, 6, 9 and 11 are amazing... I doubt it though.

Actually, 4, 6, and 9 are my three favorite Final Fantasies (along with Tactics). Therefore, I would consider them to be the best in the series and certainly qualify as "amazing."
You probably don't care, but I found the situation amusing. It is "your luck."

Well that's just bloody typical isn't it... Maybe I should check them out. Actually I totally forgot tactics as well. I did enjoy that as well.

 

[valhala89]

I've grown up with JRPG's so i dont tend to shoehorn them into a different subcategory... I like some WRPGs and some JRPGs likewise I hate some of both too... they're just RPGs to me...and now increasingly the definition of an RPG is so vague...so its almost wrong to geographically differentiate RPGs based on where they came from...do u call Fable, Witcher and Drakensang a European RPG? but i get what you mean

OT: Bioware's games have an overarching story that never changes...never-ever...everrr.. but they have mastered a skill of small stories within that self contained environment that do change giving a very important illusion of freedom and choice... they've made us perceive that choices have a huge impact by making several self contained very impactful choices...but it never matters at the end of the game


ermm nway jrps and their random encounter of rpgs play into rpg tropes of games like classic Rogue or even Diablo 2...you're fighting for a purpose to get better skills and loot to get more powerful this is an underlying factor of jrpgs... cant win a boss? go and train till you're strong enough to... just like in Diablo...only thing is most WRPGs integrate this so that it seems when you get to a boss you're strong enough to kill him...

i guess theres a lot of different WRPGs and JRPGs:

WRPGs: ARPG (Diablo series, torchlight, Titan Quest), CRPG (Dragon age, Fallot 1/2, NWN) from here on the classifications become a bit murky..jade empire? kotor? fallout 3? oblivion? how would you classify those...turn based strategy games are sort of RPG is also i feel since games like fire emblem are considered an RPG in Japan...so its not soo much as if you like JRPGs or WRPGs which sub genre of RPGs do u like?

there are quite a few JRPG subgenre but i might not be the best person to talk about it..im not too sure if i can say this but 1up has a grind blog where kat bailey and jeremy parish talk quite a bit bout jrpgs also they have a podcast and you realise the many different types of jrpgs there are...

so what im saying is that dont hate something just on the point its a jrpg hate a game based on its individual merit... there are tonnes of shitty rpgs out there even western ones...

 

[Cid Silverwing]

Oh, look, it's this thread. Again. By another person who paints all 'JRPGs' as FFVII. Again.

I like 'JRPGs' because I prefer structure. I don't like faffing about in an open world because it detracts from the story.

If you don't like them, fine. Don't play them. Just don't go starting threads that'll turn into forest fires.

This.

There really needs to be a clearer definition of what's good and bad in the JRPG market.

 

[AgentNein]

I hate racing games. Why can't I jump? Mario can jump. Mario's been jumping for decades. My race car should be able to jump too.

 

[KamachoMcSagget]

PLAY SHIN MEGAMI TENSEI