Jessica Jones Season 2

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Callate

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...Damn, Netflix.

I really enjoyed JJ season 1. It had characters who were strongly written and flawed and interacted believably. It had themes that deserved attention.

Similarly, I guess, I should say I also enjoyed season 1 of Daredevil.

Luke Cage...? Eh. Pretty strong start, charismatic lead, weak finish. Haven't been able to force myself to finish Iron Fist. I enjoyed Defenders well enough, when it wasn't being stupid... I think they vastly overestimated our investment in Elektra and her connection to Daredevil, and Danny Rand is still Danny Rand, even with the occasional interjection from one of the other players indicating awareness that he's kind of an idiot.

Oh, and Punisher. Punisher was better than I expected, given how unlikable the character was when they introduced him in Daredevil. I'd give it a B-.

Jessica Jones Season 2 is... Frustrating. And, well, no mincing words... It's bad.

Maybe all the more frustrating because there's some good stuff in it- it's just that almost all of it occurs in side characters, and the farther they get from the central plot the more interesting they get to be. Hogarth gets some interesting things to do and some character development, of all people. Hogarth!

By episode 11, I accurately predicted most of what was going to happen, right down to Trish's final "revelation". The only times I didn't expect things to happen (or at least not in the ways that they did) were because they way they panned out was stupid. And then I got to watch as it dragged on, dropping pieces like a zombie, for two more episodes.

This is a show where multiple times people have one conversation about someone's motivations- and, suddenly, those are their motivations. It's not that there's any sort of serious A-B-C; it's like a beginner's improv class: "This is your motivation. GO!" And these are motivations that go against what people have done before, motivations that fly in the face of common sense, motivations that serve to drag the plot kicking and screaming at the expense of character building and consistency and sympathy. And realism, to whatever tiny extent a gritty superhero show can lay any claim to realism. (My, but Jessica's legal problems vanish when it's convenient...)

I'm not going to say they can't pull another good season, but for all the attempts to shake the viewer by the collar and say "THIS HAS SERIOUS EMOTIONAL CONSEQUENCES!"... 90% of what happens in this season would be better put behind it and never mentioned again. It's beginning to feel like either the stronger writing in earlier Marvel-Netflix shows was a fluke, or they're trying to do too much too fast and stretching themselves too thin.

In either case, whoever gets hold of Marvel's cinematic efforts and sends drafts back to the writing table for another round of polish before they hit the screen... They need someone like that, and badly, or this whole enterprise is going to fall apart.
 

ErrrorWayz

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Callate said:
...Damn, Netflix.

I really enjoyed JJ season 1. It had characters who were strongly written and flawed and interacted believably. It had themes that deserved attention.

Similarly, I guess, I should say I also enjoyed season 1 of Daredevil.

Luke Cage...? Eh. Pretty strong start, charismatic lead, weak finish. Haven't been able to force myself to finish Iron Fist. I enjoyed Defenders well enough, when it wasn't being stupid... I think they vastly overestimated our investment in Elektra and her connection to Daredevil, and Danny Rand is still Danny Rand, even with the occasional interjection from one of the other players indicating awareness that he's kind of an idiot.

Oh, and Punisher. Punisher was better than I expected, given how unlikable the character was when they introduced him in Daredevil. I'd give it a B-.

Jessica Jones Season 2 is... Frustrating. And, well, no mincing words... It's bad.

Maybe all the more frustrating because there's some good stuff in it- it's just that almost all of it occurs in side characters, and the farther they get from the central plot the more interesting they get to be. Hogarth gets some interesting things to do and some character development, of all people. Hogarth!

By episode 11, I accurately predicted most of what was going to happen, right down to Trish's final "revelation". The only times I didn't expect things to happen (or at least not in the ways that they did) were because they way they panned out was stupid. And then I got to watch as it dragged on, dropping pieces like a zombie, for two more episodes.

This is a show where multiple times people have one conversation about someone's motivations- and, suddenly, those are their motivations. It's not that there's any sort of serious A-B-C; it's like a beginner's improv class: "This is your motivation. GO!" And these are motivations that go against what people have done before, motivations that fly in the face of common sense, motivations that serve to drag the plot kicking and screaming at the expense of character building and consistency and sympathy. And realism, to whatever tiny extent a gritty superhero show can lay any claim to realism. (My, but Jessica's legal problems vanish when it's convenient...)

I'm not going to say they can't pull another good season, but for all the attempts to shake the viewer by the collar and say "THIS HAS SERIOUS EMOTIONAL CONSEQUENCES!"... 90% of what happens in this season would be better put behind it and never mentioned again. It's beginning to feel like either the stronger writing in earlier Marvel-Netflix shows was a fluke, or they're trying to do too much too fast and stretching themselves too thin.

In either case, whoever gets hold of Marvel's cinematic efforts and sends drafts back to the writing table for another round of polish before they hit the screen... They need someone like that, and badly, or this whole enterprise is going to fall apart.
I just finished this last night. I enjoyed it myself, it wasn't as good as season 1 because that really was excellent and naturally was fresher being the first but I thought it held my attention well.

I must admit increasingly I am finding that I notice all Netflix super heroes shows have about 6 or 7 people in them emoting a lot and it becomes a bit school play-like if you think about it that way but on the whole, Luke Cage aside, I've liked them.
 

maninahat

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I've watched a few of the Season 2 episodes but have absolutely not taken to it. The first season was good because it explored a neat idea: a superhero who doesn't want to be a superhero vs a super-villain who doesn't want to be a super-villain. There was lots of obnoxious stuffing and horrible side characters, but whenever it got back to that idea, it was a good show to watch.

This season, I can't figure out what the fuck they are going for. They seem to be leaning more into the victim of abuse/depression/cycle of anger stuff, but their villain barely registers, so of course there is nothing to turn to except the obnoxious stuffing again.
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

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maninahat said:
I've watched a few of the Season 2 episodes but have absolutely not taken to it. The first season was good because it explored a neat idea: a superhero who doesn't want to be a superhero vs a super-villain who doesn't want to be a super-villain. There was lots of obnoxious stuffing and horrible side characters, but whenever it got back to that idea, it was a good show to watch.

This season, I can't figure out what the fuck they are going for. They seem to be leaning more into the victim of abuse/depression/cycle of anger stuff, but their villain barely registers, so of course there is nothing to turn to except the obnoxious stuffing again.
I'd classify Kilgrave as more of a villain who (wrongly) believes he's the hero of his own story but has no moral compass that would ever allow him to become a real hero because of his selfish nature, though his back story is tragic. He never put the effort into overcoming the scars of his past but rather let them define him, whereas Jessica is the hero who wants to be left to her own corner and is flawed because she won't deal with the traumas she's endured, but simultaneously hasn't let them define her life. Like she's taken a few steps towards recovery but does not want to go the distance because of the wounds that it will open.
Season 2 is delving even deeper into that conscious escape from emotional trauma and pain, made worse by the villain's identity and the negative connotations that brings...
Specifically speaking her mother suddenly being alive and the man she's in love with being responsible for heaping trauma on top of trauma by experimenting on her directly after the crash that took her family, which she blames herself for. Then having her mother absolve her of the guilt of causing the crash (and slightly lessening the survivor's guilt) but at the same time finding out how terrible a person her mother is, and may actually have always been regardless of having powers. And also being put in a terrible position to incarcerate and also protect her mother from further abuse by killing another person, not necessarily on purpose but it definitely crossed her mind before she defended herself.
Then she has to deal with Tricia going rogue and nearly dying to gain powers, which ends up killing the guy who experimented on Jessica... Then having to track down said mother after she freaks out and breaks out of prison, prevent her from killing her best friend/adopted sister, followed up by said mother killing another person in the process, kidnapping Jess, and then Tricia being the one to kill her right in front of Jessica...
That's even more trauma heaped on trauma. I feel like this season is dealing with how not dealing with trauma, especially after a breakthrough, can become a repeating spiral which ends up severing ties with the people who've put up with you through some of the worst times.
At the end, Jessica acts like she's finally moved on but she's using her new "family" as a surrogate happiness which will ultimately unravel whenever something highly emotional or stressful happens, all because she hasn't properly dealt with her traumas. You can tell this because she's still drinking at the end, even as she's "happily" recounting her day to the boy.
Its very sad, and it hits home because I know from experience how that goes. Minus the superpowers of course. I think this season was great, not as good as Season 1 but still poignant in the whole cycle of trauma.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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There's only one good episode in Jessica Jones season 2, and that's episode 11 for some pretty obvious reasons.

The Marvel netflix shows live and die by whether they have an interesting villain.

DareDevil season 1 - Kingpin, great villain great season.

Jessica Jones season 1 - Kilgrave, great villain pretty good season that would have been great if they'd cut it down by about 3 episodes.

DareDevil season 2 - Great first half because the Punisher is a great adversary. Crap season half because the Hand is boring.

Luke Cage - Good first half because Cottonmouth is interesting, crap season half because what's his face is poorly written and just kind of stupid.

Iron Fist - Everyone is stupid and sucks, including the villains. The Hand becomes slightly less boring though.

The Defenders - The hand again, and they're boring.

Then you have Jessica Jones season 2 and I'd put it straight at the bottom of the pile not just because there isn't an interesting villain, there isn't a villain period. There's just kind of nothing, just a series of events that happen in an order, but it doesn't even form a completely cohesive story. Iron Fist was at least fun to hate on with the bad acting and the mediocre action, but here there isn't even any of that. If this season didn't exist nothing would be lost. Also all of the side characters manage to be awful.

So yeah, rubbish season, not worth the time I took to watch it.
 

wizzy555

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The thing about Killgrave is he isn't a super villain in the usual sense, he's just a petty abuser with super powers. He has no ambition beyond satisfying his immediate petty desires or even malice towards people in general. He has no grand plan or ambition beyond that.

He is simply a metaphor for the archetypal abusive boyfriend.
 

laggyteabag

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I watched Daredevil Season 1, and enjoyed it enough.

David Tennant's charisma alone made Jessica Jones worth watching.

Season 2 of Daredevil was fine.

I just couldn't force myself to finish watching Luke Cage.

After than, Netflix's Marvel shows kind of fell off the map.

Nobody was talking about Luke Cage.

I only heard bad things about Iron Fist.

The Defenders kind of just... happened.

The Punisher was a great part of Daredevil Season 2, but his standalone show just came and went, without any fanfare.

And I have only heard bad things about Jessica Jones Season 2.

----

The thing with Jessica Jones though, is that I never found her character particularly interesting, and anything interesting about her, came as a direct result of the action of Killgrave.

Now that he has been taken out of the picture, the only thing left is a mopey character who just runs around being sad and sorry for herself.

I dunno, I just cant be bothered with Netflix's efforts, anymore.
 

Silvanus

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I actually rather enjoyed Jessica Jones season 2. It wasn't as good as the first, but the first was pretty great and hard to match. It also lacked a compelling villain, and was more about the interpersonal relationships, which makes it a hard sell as a Superhero series... but I still enjoyed it a good deal.
 

votemarvel

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Laggyteabag said:
The thing with Jessica Jones though, is that I never found her character particularly interesting, and anything interesting about her, came as a direct result of the action of Killgrave.

Now that he has been taken out of the picture, the only thing left is a mopey character who just runs around being sad and sorry for herself.
I think the show is a lot like The Blacklist, in that the character that the show is meant to revolve around is the least interesting person in it.

They've tried in the comics for years to make her a enjoyable character and failed, the only thing she is remembered for is being Luke Cage's girlfriend. The problem is that they've done nothing in the TV series to improve that.
 

Eacaraxe_v1legacy

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This may just be me, but as someone who has a family history of alcoholism and abuse, I actually quite enjoyed season 2. Honestly, the people criticizing the second season for not having a strong, central villain, are missing the point in a big way: the season's villain is Jessica Jones, by way of her self-destructive tendencies and dragging everyone else through the muck right along with her. It's a pretty common theme with addicts.

What should have tipped most people off, was most of the characters initially framed as villainous or antagonistic turned out to be fairly decent people. Oscar is just a divorced guy who's done some illegal shit, but in the end is just trying to look out for his kid and (rightly) clocks Jessica as bad news for them both. Cheng is douchey, but not wrong in his assessment of Jessica or Alisa; in the end, he wasn't wrong in his assumption Jessica was trying to cover for superpowered criminals. Sure, he resorts to violent vigilantism in the wake of his affiliate's murder, but let's get one thing straight: pretty much the entire MCU is about violent vigilantism of varying levels of superpowers and murderousness. We just got done watching a series about a murderous vigilante psychopath, and cheering for his ass.

Even Malus turned out to be a guy trying to do some good, even if his actions were deeply unethical and had major, negative, but unintended, consequences. Trish had a point, even if she was making it for selfish reasons, the cat was already out of the bag in terms of powered people, and that Malus' work was just a drop in the bucket at that point, which I believe was the deciding factor in his actively assisting Trish's scheme to become powered.

What a lot of folks really seemed to miss the point of, additionally, was that Trish was already an addict. And, that during the flashback scenes, Jessica wasn't yet, even though she was developing addictive tendencies through her "boyfriend". It was Trish's attempts to live vicariously through Jessica as a substitute addiction that put her on a collision course with Kilgrave. That caused Jessica to become a full-blown addict, bringing things to the start of season 1.

A recovering addict trying to clean up an addict rarely works out the intended way. It's more likely the addict is going to trigger a relapse in the person trying to help them, especially if the addict is themselves an addiction trigger for the person in recovery. The only way forward in those situations really is to sever ties, try to get that addict help through intermediaries, and hope for the best. Jessica's and Trish's relationship is, and always was, doomed to the cycle of codependency, enabling, and relapse that played out in season 2, until they both confront their addictions and enter recovery. Last, Malcolm was absolutely, positively, unarguably in the right for severing ties with both.

It's not the fault of either of them. Addiction is what it is. Likewise, the show laid out the blueprint for Alisa as clear as day, and her behavior is not necessarily her fault, either. Episodes of rage and poor impulse control are potential behavioral consequences of TBI, and this is a facet of TBI that's been known and exceedingly well-documented since the days of Phineas Gage. People don't necessarily like discussing it because of the presumption it stigmatizes people with TBI, but facts are facts.

It is interesting to see how people react to a character who is, in essence, a nerfed Hulk who is a woman, whose powers stem from genetic engineering and TBI as opposed to a botched and ill-informed attempt to recreate Project Rebirth.
 

JUMBO PALACE

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I watched the first two episodes a week or so ago but haven't felt the urge to continue watching. But it took me a few tries to get into the first season as well so maybe I just need to dive in and get into the meat.
 

Kabapsa

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watch this show only for David Tennant)) His amazing actor. I love his role in Doctor Who