Jimquisition: Booth Babes

[Skoosh]

I think you're mistaken. The problem isn't pretty girls. I'd hate to not be able to attend a gaming convention with my girlfriend. The problem is near-nude women payed to stand there in a bikini to sell a game about cars or whatever. They make many people uncomfortable because that's not the place for that. Softcore porn is fine, I don't care if they model elsewhere, but I'd like the gaming convention to be about, well, games. If a booth wants to pay someone to catch people's attention, I'd much prefer they had someone look like a pokemon or master chief, not just a pretty girl with a logo on her swimsuit.

That is what YOU want.

...Yes obviously that's what I want. Your point?

If you're getting at other people want them there, well yeah, obviously, but what exactly would be wrong with replacing them with gaming icons? As Jim's video said, everyone should be there for the games anyway, so one side doesn't really lose anything and the side that feels uncomfortable wins. What's the problem with moving the focus of a video game convention away from boobs and towards games? I mean honestly, what's the big gain from having half the booths pay attractive women to stand in front with tiny skirts? If you want that, stay home on the internet or go to a strip joint. It doesn't really have a place next to the PS3 display or whatever.

 

[Raioken18]

I'd say ban booth babes, but relax the dress standards for regular nerds who are going to show up whether they are being paid or not.

I have a good example of this, a while back a friend and I went to the release party for Mafia 2. They had hired a playboy model to come and represent their game. Since she was the only woman in the entire place not wearing a hoodie, she stood out like a sore thumb and everyone generally avoided her. Then it came time for the preview, they had for some reason decided to get this poor model to do the announcement/trailer for the game, which... she clearly had no idea what she was advertising and seemed to only realize this when she tried to explain the gameplay, then couldn't figure out how to unpause the game, then was struggling to move the character or to jump into a car... which seemed odd as she'd just claimed to be a hardcore games with this game as one of her favorites on her own PS3. Having a whole room full of gamers who know you are talking crap... it was one of the most awkward moments ever.

At the end of the night I was ready to go but my friend wanted to stay and get her signature, or to talk to her for 5 seconds while getting an up-close perv. When we got up there he garbled something and she didn't hear him so she wrote "LOVE *****", I actually forget her name. So then I walked out after him and she says you forgot to get your signature, and I yell out that I didn't see the point. She then excused herself (while a line of people were still waiting and walked off. (I didn't mean to be cruel or anything :/ ).

The point is meant to be please do away with them. It's the uncomfortable elephant in the corner of an awesome night of gaming, Pizza and hanging with your girl friends in a comfortable environment.

 

[Skoosh]

The problem is near-nude women payed to stand there in a bikini to sell a game about cars or whatever. They make many people uncomfortable because that's not the place for that.

They make a tiny minority uncomfortable. Because simply put they wouldn't be there if it was more than that.

Same with selling games about cars in bikinis. If it didn't work they would not do it.

I wouldn't say that at all. Many that it makes uncomfortable can overlook it or work around it, but they shouldn't have to because it honestly doesn't have a place there. I mean all the people commenting in this thread (and numerous other places) clearly shows it's more than a tiny amount of people, and that's not even considering the masses of people that don't go specifically for that reason.

I wouldn't even say if it didn't work, they wouldn't do it. Do I really need to make a list of all the stupid things various videogame companies have done that didn't work, yet they continued for years because it worked in other industries?

But hey, let's assume it does work and that the people it works on are the largest group. What does it hurt to replace the boothbabes with cosplayers and mascots? It still grabs attention, people will come over and take photos and whatever. Perhaps not as good as a sexy model, but at least it would be appropriate for the setting. The whole point is a game convention is not the place for in-person softcore modeling. The people that go there are almost certainly there for games.

 

[lancar]

Booth baby?

I don't think I've ever /facepalm'd at a Jimquisition video before, but Booth baby made it happen.

 

[Zer_]

The more I hear Jim's campaign pitches, the more I want to vote for him.

This needs to happen.

In relevance to the topic, instead of getting rid of Booth Babes, why not just have them wear something more professional and tone down the makeup? They keep their job and others don't have to feel uncomfortable.

Because in any other place you can't ban people for making others feel uncomfortable. That's absolutely preposterous. Now, it's up to the organizers of said events to decide on their own, since it's THEIR event. However the whole whine against booth babes basically comes down to one of two things. Booth babes objectify women, or it makes them feel uncomfortable.

When it comes to objectification, it's something that happens all the time in all forms of media. Media portrays people as caricatures and NOT REAL PEOPLE. That's the whole freakin' point of it. To be against only one specific aspect of caricaturization and to say the rest is okay based on your personal preference is fucking hypocritical. You don't have to like all forms of media, but it's not okay to try and force/censor media based on what YOU want. It's selfish, period.

On the subject of making others feel uncomfortable, well that's not the booth babe's problem, or the event host's. It's your problem. If you feel uncomfortable around a sexy booth babe, then you've got issues. If you feel like a perv for staring and a booth babe's body, then you've got insecurities. If you feel inadequate around society's (or a game's) portrayal of "sexy", then you've got insecurities. To say that it demeans women is also fucking dumb. It's a job, and it's a job that a lot of women enjoy.

Does the presence of certain types of caricatures offend you? Too bad! Does the presence of certain types of caricatures infringe on your personal rights? Fuck no. To ban something because it offends you or a group of people is infringing on the very rights of those who WANT to cosplay, or be a booth babe. Period.

 

[DrunkOnEstus]

What about, since these conventions are run by private companies, they set a standard dress code that applies to spokespeople and attendees alike. They're bound to have rules that apply to many other facets of behavior, so why not a dress code. Like posting here, or on Eurogamer, attending their convention makes you a guest. I would expect to be warned or kicked out for showing pictures of boobs or butt, so why would I expect to see all kinds of that in person at their convention?

Saying "No booth Babes", to me, dehumanizes the women in question and simply makes them an arguing point for a discussion that rarely includes their input. If you don't want scantily-clad women walking around at your convention, then make that so, but don't have a double standard where you've kicked out a spokesperson for wearing a bikini while someone in an equally revealing Rikku costume freely attends without repercussion. If they want to wear that costume in public that badly, then they can attend a convention run by people who are more okay with that and don't find it offensive/are okay with the backlash.

Either way, I thank you Jim for bringing this up, because believe it or not this is a very important issue. This topic and many others in a similar vein have us discussing the value of behavior that has occurred for years with little question, and most major changes for the good have started with people being brave enough to re-evaluate things that for a long time weren't worthy of even discussing the merits of. Thank God for you, and vote Jim/Defoe in 2016.

 

[m19]

I wouldn't say that at all. Many that it makes uncomfortable can overlook it or work around it, but they shouldn't have to because it honestly doesn't have a place there. I mean all the people commenting in this thread (and numerous other places) clearly shows it's more than a tiny amount of people, and that's not even considering the masses of people that don't go specifically for that reason.

I wouldn't even say if it didn't work, they wouldn't do it. Do I really need to make a list of all the stupid things various videogame companies have done that didn't work, yet they continued for years because it worked in other industries?

But hey, let's assume it does work and that the people it works on are the largest group. What does it hurt to replace the boothbabes with cosplayers and mascots? It still grabs attention, people will come over and take photos and whatever. Perhaps not as good as a sexy model, but at least it would be appropriate for the setting. The whole point is a game convention is not the place for in-person softcore modeling. The people that go there are almost certainly there for games.

1. I don't think people complaining in a forum represent much.

2. Everyone likes to think how much smarter they are then those marketing people. Which I don't think is as true as we'd like to think. They know what they are doing and why.

3. I agree I'd prefer those models dressed to reflect what they are selling. But I also know I'm not Joe Average, at least not always.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

That's a good point, did anyone bother to actually ask the actually booth babes whether or not they had a problem with what they were doing or the whole idea in general? You know, instead of talking about them as you would the Michelangelo's David?

I don't think it's really about the women and their personal feelings on the matter. I think it's the vocal female demographic who don't really feel like having the message expressed to them that this genetic good fortune is more important than even the product we're selling, and we want you to come focus on them, and then spare some focus on us.




*Plastic surgery, make up, enhancing a certain body part, playing up fetishes... Eye of the beholder, after all.

But as Jim pointed out the practice of having Booth Babes does give a number of women jobs, perhaps not the most commendable of jobs, but there are certainly worse. Besides that, I don't ever hear anyone getting the opinions of the women who are actually employed as the Booth Babes. As I stated, everyone seems to talk about them as if they were some controversial piece of art or something.
Of course having Booth Babes at a booth for say Call of Duty is more than a little silly, but having them at the Booth for, say Lollipop Chainsaw is kinda appropriate wouldn't you say? You know, have a girl dressed up as Juliette Starling so people could tell it's their booth by seeing the main protagonist standing there.

 

[peruvianskys]

snipp

Yes, you're right: The greatest high watermark of the entire feminist movement is a bored looking college student being ogled by immature man-children in front of a Soul Calibur booth.

Susan B. Anthony must be so proud!

Because in any other place you can't ban people for making others feel uncomfortable. That's absolutely preposterous. Now, it's up to the organizers of said events to decide on their own, since it's THEIR event. However the whole whine against booth babes basically comes down to one of two things. Booth babes objectify women, or it makes them feel uncomfortable.

You are wrong. The complaints against booth babes are as follows:

1. Booth babes are an antique from a shittier time. They are a tacky remnant of a period when the vast majority of gamers were young men, and as the demographics change and the medium evolves, we need to leave behind the blatant and immature appeals to sexuality, like other respectable mediums have.

2. Booth babes are exclusionary. At a time when the vast percentage of developers, publishers, and real power players in the industry are (usually white) men, we need to be doing all we can to make sure that we present an open and inviting atmosphere for the women who have been intentionally alienated from our community. It's a travesty that the majority of the women in professional roles at gaming conventions are the ones in bikinis sitting glossy-eyed in the corner; I think I would be far less upset about booth babes if I felt like I could find a woman anywhere else at the convention. I am not a woman but I have talked to countless female gamers who I consider my friends and very few feel as though they'll be welcome at all unless they don a Slave Leah costume or otherwise sexualize themselves, and that endemic sexism is fed by the relegation of women exclusively to the role of eye candy.

3. Booth babes have no purpose. We are not selling sex at game conventions; we are selling games, the vast majority of which have little to no sexual content. Do we have booth babes at dentists' conventions, or quilting shows, or even the vast majority of other media events? No, because those are mature and intelligent affairs that rely on quality presentation instead of puerile appeals to teenage boy impulses. If gaming is ever going to "grow up" then it will need to acknowledge that the booth babe concept is not sustained by a legitimate artistic vision or a strong, accepting community, but instead by the most base and tacky form of diversionary exploitation.


Those of you who are arguing for the continuation of the booth babe approach are very much responsible for the mind-blowing lack of progress that we as a culture have made towards fostering a respectable, mature, and open community. I'm sorry if you feel as though your ability to look at pretty ladies is under attack, but don't worry! I think you'll survive.

 

[Baresark]

This is such a non issue. Booth babes are there to attract people. Do they do that? Some certainly do. Is it horribly objectifying women? Only if getting paid a decent wage to be hot is offensive, which it's not. It's just reality. Allowing women to objectify their whole half of the species for free (ie. cosplay) but having a problem with companies hiring and paying women to do the same thing is idiotic. It's just stupid bickering over something that is not really an issue. If you don't like it, ignore them. If you are a monster like Jim, drool away and listen to their product placement as a way to stare at their tits longer, that is what they are their for after all. Also, god forbid they like doing the job, I know it's not reasonable.

 

[Zer_]

snipp

Yes, you're right: The greatest high watermark of the entire feminist movement is a bored looking college student being ogled by immature man-children in front of a Soul Calibur booth.

Susan B. Anthony must be so proud!

Because in any other place you can't ban people for making others feel uncomfortable. That's absolutely preposterous. Now, it's up to the organizers of said events to decide on their own, since it's THEIR event. However the whole whine against booth babes basically comes down to one of two things. Booth babes objectify women, or it makes them feel uncomfortable.

You are wrong. The complaints against booth babes are as follows:

1. Booth babes are an antique from a shittier time. They are a tacky remnant of a period when the vast majority of gamers were young men, and as the demographics change and the medium evolves, we need to leave behind the blatant and immature appeals to sexuality, like other respectable mediums have.

2. Booth babes are exclusionary. At a time when the vast percentage of developers, publishers, and real power players in the industry are (usually white) men, we need to be doing all we can to make sure that we present an open and inviting atmosphere for the women who have been intentionally alienated from our community. It's a travesty that the majority of the women in professional roles at gaming conventions are the ones in bikinis sitting glossy-eyed in the corner; I think I would be far less upset about booth babes if I felt like I could find a woman anywhere else at the convention. I am not a woman but I have talked to countless female gamers who I consider my friends and very few feel as though they'll be welcome at all unless they don a Slave Leah costume or otherwise sexualize themselves, and that endemic sexism is fed by the relegation of women exclusively to the role of eye candy.

3. Booth babes have no purpose. We are not selling sex at game conventions; we are selling games, the vast majority of which have little to no sexual content. Do we have booth babes at dentists' conventions, or quilting shows, or even the vast majority of other media events? No, because those are mature and intelligent affairs that rely on quality presentation instead of puerile appeals to teenage boy impulses. If gaming is ever going to "grow up" then it will need to acknowledge that the booth babe concept is not sustained by a legitimate artistic vision or a strong, accepting community, but instead by the most base and tacky form of diversionary exploitation.


Those of you who are arguing for the continuation of the booth babe approach are very much responsible for the mind-blowing lack of progress that we as a culture have made towards fostering a respectable, mature, and open community. I'm sorry if you feel as though your ability to look at pretty ladies is under attack, but don't worry! I think you'll survive.

I've no issues with gaming progressing as a whole, especially when it is trying to open itself to new demographics. And yes games are opening to newer demographics. That doesn't mean that games that cater to the young teen male will cease to exist, they'll always be there, but as time goes on, more and more games are (and have) going to cater to much wider audiences. I was not addressing that issue. Media changes with the society it caters to, that is only natural. Booth babes may be an old concept, however they (and the caricatures they portray) are here to stay. You may start seeing less of them, but there's nothing inherently wrong with booth babes from a moral standpoint. Such was my argument.

As for your point on booth babes being exclusionary, that's kind of like saying a car ad for a Porsche is exclusionary to people who are in the market for a less expensive hatchback.

 

[eatenbyagrue]

I have a question though: don't car shows also have their own version of booth babes?

Since when is this a car website? I thought we concerned outself with gaming-related stuff on here Oo.

It's more a "why is it cool when they do it, but not when we do it?" question.

Captcha: I'm sorry. (um.. sorry for what exactly?)

 

[Skoosh]

1. I don't think people complaining in a forum represent much.

2. Everyone likes to think how much smarter they are then those marketing people. Which I don't think is as true as we'd like to think. They know what they are doing and why.

3. I agree I'd prefer those models dressed to reflect what they are selling. But I also know I'm not Joe Average, at least not always.

Oh good, numbers. That makes things a bit easier.

1. I'd agree to an extend, but it's not just forums. As Jim's video mentioned, this is something that's been coming up a lot in the gaming community in general for the last couple years, not just the occasional thread on a random forum. The case for it being a good bit of people is quite clear. Otherwise we wouldn't be talking about it now.

2. My point was just that these companies aren't flawless. Just because they do something doesn't mean there's not a better alternative, as your original statement implied. And I'm also making it from the argument of what's best for the consumer and convention, not the companies. Babes are likely the easiest/cheapest way to move people to their booth, but not necessarily getting people in the convention or enjoying the community.

3. Ah, but we aren't looking for Joe Average, we're looking for Bob the Gamer. The average gamer is different from the average person. But I see your point, we'd need a whole poll and all this data to see what the general opinion is, but I'd guess it's closer to ours than you'd think. But even if the average gamer is fine with babes, there's a decent amount that are bothered by it, and since the conventions are about games, what's really lost by not having booth babes? I mean I can't honestly see anyone making the argument that anyone at all shows up just for the babes...

 

[Playful Pony]

I have a question though: don't car shows also have their own version of booth babes?

Since when is this a car website? I thought we concerned outself with gaming-related stuff on here Oo.

It's more a "why is it cool when they do it, but not when we do it?" question.

Captcha: I'm sorry. (um.. sorry for what exactly?)

SORRY FOR BEING BORN! *runs away crying*

Apologies, that was very /teenager X3.

I see what you mean, and I submit! I tend to feel that a lot of gamers and gaming media seem terrified of not being seen of as grown-up, serious upstanding members of humanity. Why this is I don't know, even some of the more dispicable parts of gaming are easily comparable and often surpased by other forms of entertainment out there.

On the front of gaming magazines one usually sees games. Car magazines (as far as I can see passing by them in the stores) are pretty much king when it comes to sticking barely clothed women infront of the cars they claim to be interested in.

Do I care that they do this with cars? Not really. I don't see the problem with annoyingly sexy girls (why aren't I as sexy damnit?!) sharing their beauty with the world when men are so obviously willing to pay good money for it. Then it is a bit sad that these women are often not taken seriously or even given any identity of their own beyond being a "hot piece of ass".

Confusing subject X3.

 

[eatenbyagrue]

I see what you mean, and I submit! I tend to feel that a lot of gamers and gaming media seem terrified of not being seen of as grown-up, serious upstanding members of humanity. Why this is I don't know, even some of the more dispicable parts of gaming are easily comparable and often surpased by other forms of entertainment out there.

On the front of gaming magazines one usually sees games. Car magazines (as far as I can see passing by them in the stores) are pretty much king when it comes to sticking barely clothed women infront of the cars they claim to be interested in.

Do I care that they do this with cars? Not really. I don't see the problem with annoyingly sexy girls (why aren't I as sexy damnit?!) sharing their beauty with the world when men are so obviously willing to pay good money for it. Then it is a bit sad that these women are often not taken seriously or even given any identity of their own beyond being a "hot piece of ass".

Confusing subject X3.

Thinking about it further (it was 1AM when I watched the video), I have a feeling it's more a demographical question: i.e., everyone plays games, but the people who do custom car jobs and go to car shows are men and Michelle Rodriguez

 

[Lilani]

Regarding the fact that it would eliminate jobs, do booth babes really take up that many jobs? I mean, there are a lot of conventions that happen these days, but when they happen they only last a few days at most and they are so scattered even HUGE cities only see them a few times a year at most. I'm not exactly sure what sort of companies contract these women out, but I'm fairly certain they aren't completely reliant upon conventions for a significant amount of their income. They just can't be--conventions are only for a few days. At most the cons probably give them a boost in sales. But otherwise if the convention lasts for 4 days, that still leaves 360 days they've got to keep the business running until the next convention.

Though Jim does bring up a fair point, but I think it is really a part of the issue. Yes, booth babes are autonomous human beings, and regardless of their purpose they should never be dehumanized to the point of degradation. However, unless something shady is going on, as Jim himself said that's their job. They signed on to be stared at by nerds who probably don't get to see women like that very often. That they're there isn't their fault, as well as the discomfort they cause. And because of that, their feelings on being there has little to do with whether or not they should be there. Yes, that is a bit dehumanizing, and as a female myself I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it. But while dehumanization in any form is bad, they aren't really the crux of the issue.

I mean, if this were anything else involved with conventions, we wouldn't be having this discussion. If the problem were, say, latex balloons being used at conventions and making problems for people who have latex allergies, and all conventions switched to using non-latex balloons, we would not be worrying about the loss of business for the makers of latex. But because the product in this case is autonomous human beings, suddenly we're worried about that loss of business.

Again, dehumanization is bad and is sort of the cause of this in many ways (it's not like their role at the convention has any humanizing qualities), but in some situations it's sort of necessary to fully comprehend a situation and make a fully- informed decision.

 

[ZiggyE]

The reason I'm against Booth Babes isn't because I think it is sexist (it isn't) and it isn't because I find it uncomfortable to be around them, it's simply because it's immature and demeans gaming as a hobby.

 

[GTwander]

It's immature and demeans gaming as a hobby.

Just about as much as cheerleaders do for the dignity of their respective sports.

 

[immortalfrieza]

Am I the only one who noticed that he forgot to say "thank God for me"? I just... I don't know what to believe anymore.

But... he didn't say "Thank god for me!"

I... I am lost and confused... I don't know what to do now... WHAT DO I THANK GOD FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!??????????

I noticed that too, what's up with that Jim?

OT: Booth Babes are COMPLETELY unnecessary in video game expos and they're far more likely to drive people away in this day and age than they are to get people interested in a game. The whole "but getting rid of Booth Babes would put women out of work" argument is a load of crap, sex appeal is a endless job market, women like those booth babes would have no trouble finding work somewhere else.

 

[Baldr]

I said this in the past, most of the booth babes at E3 work or trying to work as Models and Actresses/Actors(There are some guys at these events.) Video Games are far from the only industry that employs booth babes at large conferences at the LA convention center. For most of them it is regular side work. These are people who want to be known for their physical beauty and get these jobs through their talent agency. From what I've been told, E3 not the best conference to work at as a booth babe, but not the most degrading.

Although this is far from being the opinion of every booth babe, from those I have talked to seems to be a fair assessment in my opinion.