Jimquisition: Changing A Game's Ending And Destroying Art

[J.d. Scott]

Most game "journalists" or commenters have their head up their ass and immediately rant on about how horrible all the fans are, how devious and psychotic they are for stating their opinion and appealing the creators to change something they didn't make.

Jim, thanks for at least looking into what the whole deal was about and THEN making a proper statement on it.

I'm sick to my stomach of all the knee-jerk reactions there have been from webcomic artists, game journalists, reviewers and who ever the hell else they think are important, who just kicked a lot of people in the teeth because of a few outspoken people and not the fanbases that speak for their cases and try to appeal calmly and in a friendly way. Such as sending cupcakes.

While I don't necessarily agree with all of Jim's opinions, I have much for respect for him, for actually looking into the matter, unlike the typical writer out there who thinks they have everyone else figured out.

To be fair, what exactly do you expect to be a site's headlines - "Game Fans Present Reasoned Opinions for Game Edit" or "Game Fans Kick ME Writer's Teeth in on Twitter". It's the problem with a quiet reasoned opinion and a loud nasty one. Also, while there were a lot of reasoned opinions, there have been more then a few violators of the "John Gabriel Internet F***wad Theory" in the RME side.

The issue with the cupcakes and the Child's Play is that it's hard to tell if something is an intentionally nice method of trying to get people's attention, or an intentionally nasty way of using a nice method to draw positive PR to one's side and negative attention to the other. I'm sure lots of people donated to CP/Cupcakes with the best of intentions - to show Bioware how much they love them and the ME series while simultaneously drawing attention to their issues with the game. I'm also sure lots of people donated to CP/Cupcakes as a method to place a "sugar-coating" (pun definitely intended) on their attempts to railroad a company to change their game.

 

[Redd the Sock]

Just when I thought everyone had weighed in on this. Actually, I do want Moviebob's opinion on the subject again when he's a little less "death to fanboys" about it. Even if he still defnds his position of art defending bad writing in an already heavially consumer demand focused market, at the very least something without the ire he's had on the subject.

And thank you for knocking the artists off their high horse, even if this may the the only time the fanboys have it right. Game companies already seem to be shitting on the consumer a lot lately without the creative staff taking on your ego without it being a joke.

PS as omeone that did rag on your show at first, it's nice to see you've found the balance between content and toilet humour. It's become the high point of my Monday.

 

[Axyun]

Jim, regardless of whether you agree with the fans or not, I commend and respect you for becoming more informed on the subject matter before voicing your opinion. Count me in amogst those who have slowly but steadily grown to like and look forward to your column.

 

[Beryl77]

Bioware can make a much better ending. There is too much wrong with the ending to simply have been overlooked when they made it and they know fans care about that stuff, especially after "Deception".
I'm pretty sure we got this ending because of a lack time and resources. If it's true what's written in "The Final Hours of Mass Effect 3", then Mac Walter and Casey Hudson decided pretty much at the end of the development what the concept of the ending is going to be. Somewhere in November if I remember correctly and the game was released in march but went gold a month or more earlier.
So I really doubt that that's the ending that everyone at Bioware had wanted, they know themselves what's wrong with the ending but of course they can't simply say that. Mass Effect is first and foremost a product, art is only secondary. Without having to worry about a deadline and resources, they would have definitely made a much better ending that is much closer to "art", than what we have now.

So yeah, I don't think much would be lost if they changed the ending. Famous artist have always changed their creations based on fan feedback, sometimes it turns out better, sometimes worse but I just don't see why it would be so much worse if this happened in the gaming industry.

 

[lord.jeff]

I have no problem with people wanting the the ending changed or Bioware changing the ending, in fact I applaud a company willing to go back and fix the problems in there games, but the few people who filed FTC complaints forcing there opinions on Bioware instead of presenting them, took it to far and unfortunately colored in the view a lot of people have on the retake Mass Effect and all the other petitions floating around out there. It also doesn't help that instead of asking Bioware to make an ending that lives up to the quality of the rest of the series they ask Bioware to stop making crap, it's a matter of wording.

 

[J.d. Scott]

You can change art, it's the how and why that matters. Take the biggest case of all...Star Wars.

Releasing a polished up 5.1 with deleted scenes added back in and maybe the odd tweak (adding stormtroopers when Han runs around the corner made more sense for example) jacking up the resolution till you get HD, all great, because you are releasing a classic that now stands up to today's expectations in quality and adding a little to make it sweeter to buy if you already owned it.

Filling it full of unessential cgi, and changing things in a massively clumsy way...fuck off.

It's a fine line, but it is there.

Here's the thing - there are plenty of people who try to present completely demented theories on the Han/Greedo fight that basically amount to George Lucas is violating his own artistic integrity - which puts them in the awkward position of trying to defend George Lucas's artistic integrity...from George Lucas.

It's partially because I think people have an opinion of George Lucas as this wildly talented movie supergenius instead of a guy who captured lightning in a bottle. A director/producer that has shown both degrading skill as a filmmaker and his propensity for wild silliness, which was mostly constrained by producers and studios and budgets in the 70s and not so much now. (But this is BESIDE THE POINT.)

I agree with Jim that if Bioware doesn't care about their artistic integrity, why should I, but I also think that a lot of people who absolutely reviled Roger Ebert for saying games aren't art and have no artistic integrity immediately dismissed the idea that Bioware had a right to their artistic integrity because it was convenient for their argument.

I think we may want to make a decision on this and stick by it.

 

[Falseprophet]

Who would have guessed, Jim is right again.

So we have Jim and MovieBob with polar opposite opinions, what ever happened to Extra Consideration?

Considering Shamus Young and Yahtzee also offered somewhat differing opinions on the ME3 ending, that could have been an excellent 4-way Extra Consideration.

 

[Abedeus]

What's that, Arthur Conan Doyle? Fans complained?

Well, you make art, so... NOOO DON'T CHANGE THE ENDING NO... Great, Sherlock is alive, thanks a lot! YOU BETRAYED ART AND WILL BE FOREVER HAUNTED FOR IT!!!

 

[Inuprince]

Nice to know someone also loves Alien 3, as much as I do.

 

[Erttheking]

Nice going Yahtzee, I agree with the fat guy's opinion more than yours. You know, I should probably start watching this a little more.

 

[CrazyBlue]

Jim has provided a pretty good explanation as to why it's ok to change the ending, the fact that films occasionally change their ending and yet are still considering art is something. Also remember how Fallout 3 technically changed its ending...

Also a nice little inclusion of Killer 7, not sure quite what it was achieving, but great to see it none the less.

 

[J.d. Scott]

To be fair, what exactly do you expect to be a site's headlines - "Game Fans Present Reasoned Opinions for Game Edit" or "Game Fans Kick ME Writer's Teeth in on Twitter". It's the problem with a quiet reasoned opinion and a loud nasty one. Also, while there were a lot of reasoned opinions, there have been more then a few violators of the "John Gabriel Internet F***wad Theory" in the RME side.

I expect journalists to be somewhat objective. Failing that, I expect them to understand the situation on the side that they're critisizing. It's not a utopian expectation, there's no reason people can't be decent at times.

The issue with the cupcakes and the Child's Play is that it's hard to tell if something is an intentionally nice method of trying to get people's attention, or an intentionally nasty way of using a nice method to draw positive PR to one's side and negative attention to the other. I'm sure lots of people donated to CP/Cupcakes with the best of intentions - to show Bioware how much they love them and the ME series while simultaneously drawing attention to their issues with the game. I'm also sure lots of people donated to CP/Cupcakes as a method to place a "sugar-coating" (pun definitely intended) on their attempts to railroad a company to change their game.

You don't need to focus on either, just accept that there are good people along with the "bad" ones. That's all.

I still believe in a lot of ways that the if the community really has the best of intentions or wants to say it does, it really needs to have a proactive nature in policing some of the more ridiculous things that were done/said, or at least make an effort to distance the majority of the group from the people who took it to the point of ridicule. Otherwise, it's far too easy to view people who issued demands, or made violent, insulting or threatening tweets and facebook posts, or other bad things as a part of the group, instead of just some other people with a similar opinion.

 

[Ariseishirou]

Thank god for you, Jim.

No, really, that really sums it up. A group of people had an opinion you disagreed with so you went out of your way to educate yourself about the matter and see where they were coming from.

Thank god for you.

 

[direkiller]

yea the Mass Effect protest is rather tame compared to others
there are a few retards(lets face it this is the internet)
but compared to failed boycotts i'll take cupcakes and charity drives any day

 

[TheBestPieEver]

I don't always agree with Jim, but I really can't enjoy the Jimquisition. His voice is just... obnoxious, at least for my ears.

 

[3quency]

Some interesting points.
And the slow wait for the price to decrease continues.

 

[J.d. Scott]

I still believe in a lot of ways that the if the community really has the best of intentions or wants to say it does, it really needs to have a proactive nature in policing some of the more ridiculous things that were done/said, or at least make an effort to distance the majority of the group from the people who took it to the point of ridicule. Otherwise, it's far too easy to view people who issued demands, or made violent, insulting or threatening tweets and facebook posts, or other bad things as a part of the group, instead of just some other people with a similar opinion.

It's easy, just remind people when they're being douchebags. Keep doing it and it'll catch on, pretty soon you wont be able to state a heated comment without being bashed by twenty other posters

It's not ideal and hopefully it wont come to that, but it's better than things are now.

It is a lot better now, I have to admit. Although, I think a lot of it is that Bioware basically said they were redoing the ending, so a lot of the douchebags have declared "Mission Accomplished" in their little flight suits and faffed off, as douchebags are want to do.

I just hope that Bioware at least keeps some shreds of the old ending. There's some really interesting thoughts in there that shouldn't just (to steal a line from another cut and re-cut thing...) fade...like tears in rain.

 

[370999]

To be fair, what exactly do you expect to be a site's headlines - "Game Fans Present Reasoned Opinions for Game Edit" or "Game Fans Kick ME Writer's Teeth in on Twitter". It's the problem with a quiet reasoned opinion and a loud nasty one. Also, while there were a lot of reasoned opinions, there have been more then a few violators of the "John Gabriel Internet F***wad Theory" in the RME side.

I expect journalists to be somewhat objective. Failing that, I expect them to understand the situation on the side that they're critisizing. It's not a utopian expectation, there's no reason people can't be decent at times.

The issue with the cupcakes and the Child's Play is that it's hard to tell if something is an intentionally nice method of trying to get people's attention, or an intentionally nasty way of using a nice method to draw positive PR to one's side and negative attention to the other. I'm sure lots of people donated to CP/Cupcakes with the best of intentions - to show Bioware how much they love them and the ME series while simultaneously drawing attention to their issues with the game. I'm also sure lots of people donated to CP/Cupcakes as a method to place a "sugar-coating" (pun definitely intended) on their attempts to railroad a company to change their game.

You don't need to focus on either, just accept that there are good people along with the "bad" ones. That's all.

I still believe in a lot of ways that the if the community really has the best of intentions or wants to say it does, it really needs to have a proactive nature in policing some of the more ridiculous things that were done/said, or at least make an effort to distance the majority of the group from the people who took it to the point of ridicule. Otherwise, it's far too easy to view people who issued demands, or made violent, insulting or threatening tweets and facebook posts, or other bad things as a part of the group, instead of just some other people with a similar opinion.

I would agree with you largely but I think you have to apply this to the naysayers. Take people like MovieBob who do no research and shout "entitled crybabies" all the time. They should be shunned for behaving like that, and that self policing isn't happening. No side has an monopoly on the crazy here.


At large, great vid Jim. I was one of the people who really disliked your style and while I still have reservations they are mainly in style and taste and you have improved in leaps and bounds