Jimquisition: Fake Nerd Girls

[Termagent]

Wow... This thread has been um interesting to say the least.

Firstly on the topic of girls putting that they're a girl in their steam profile, or letting people know they're a girl. At the fast food joint I work at I'm on the front counter. Before I started working there every guy wanted to work in the back and it eventually led to only guys working out the back and only girls working at the front and when I first started the managers would constantly refer to everyone out the front as girls as it was the norm. It annoyed me to no end and after a few days of it I started to bring attention to myself every time a manager would say it and they would apologize and after a while they all no longer say it when I'm there in fact we even started getting more guys working with me now. This is the same in principle, people just assume they're guys due to this kind of mentality and they're simply letting people know that they are girls because they don't want to be referred to as guys.

As for attention seekers, they're everywhere. I've seen both guys and girls be attention seekers with all sorts of hobbies and in various groups. This isn't some sort of unique thing to gaming or whatever. It doesn't matter if they're cosplaying in super skimpy clothing or bragging about their muscles or their 2500 WoW arena rating(Note in each of these hobbies there are the two sides, the people who just do it because they find it fun or enjoy doing it, and the people who do it for the attention). If people just learnt to recognize the symptoms and ignored them they wouldn't have a problem. But people feed them, give them attention and they get this stupid narcissistic attitude which then makes them feel entitled to blow people off or whatever.

On the male sexuality thing, you can control yourself. I'm attracted to women, yes I'll check women out but I'm not going to turn into some sort of cave man because a hot girl could possibly be interested in the same things as I am. Nor am I going to get mad if she doesn't want to pay attention to me. Yes it can be frustrating to be rejected, or to think you've found someone who is interested in you and then find out she isn't. But it's how the world works, you just move on and try someone else eventually you'll find someone out there... probably.

Finally, who cares if people label themselves as gamers or not, my dad's played over 3000 hours of counter-strike but if you were to call him a nerd or a hardcore gamer he'd probably tell you to fuck off. There isn't some sort of requirement to be a gamer and the only time what you've played/ how much you've played should matter is when you're trying to put your opinion forth on game design or something. If you're going to argue to me about balance in Dota 2 then you're going to want to tell me how long you've been playing before I start caring about your opinion. But if you're just saying you're a nerd because you enjoy a few games and watch some anime and doctor who I'm not going to care too much, especially if they're willing to try other things related to it.

God I only wanted to make a quick post and ended up writing an essay >.>

 

[CaptainChip]

God golly gosh, the more I look at this thread, the more I hate both sides.

EDIT: Also, Astro, what do sexy cosplays have ANYTHING to do with fake geek girls? It's like you're going completely off topic with your arguments.

A 'fake nerd girl' is presumably not feigning interest gaming for no reason.

... And? Just because a cosplayer chose a sexy costume does not mean s/he's not a fan of the show. That's what this whole thing is about. Being a geek, being a fan.

Here's the thing, fake geeks usually pretend to like something for attention, right? But that doesn't mean everyone who likes attention is a fake geek.

And even if they picked a sexy costume, does that mean they're doing it for attention? No! Has it NEVER occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, they really like the character? Because that's what most cosplayers do, cosplay characters they like. Even if the outfit is revealing.

So my final stance on your argument is that it's completely irrelevant to the matter at hand.

If that's your reasoning then you haven't read most of my argument.

Most of your argument is "they cosplay as sexy characters because like wearing sexy costumes" and "they could be wearing different costumes" and "they're doing it for attention". Basically, your whole argument from what I've read is based on a ton of assumptions. And it's very, very weak.

And still off-topic.

From what you've read meaning only part of my argument because I've addressed what you brought up?

How is discussing a subset of girls feigning an interest in gaming in order to reap attention irrelevant to the topic?

Oh, also, "Because they are dressing up as sexy characters in a convention usually filled with men, it's because they want attention!" Still weak.

And still irrelevant because sexy cosplayers =/= fake geek girls. This is what I'm hammering on. You can still have a sexy Samus costume, genuinely enjoy nintendo games and metroid games in particular, and be a real geek. You can have a not sexy mario costume, chose it only because he's popular, and be a fake geek.

The sexiness of a cosplay is entirely irrelevant to whether or not a person genuinely enjoys gaming

Why would anyone cosplay if not for attention?

Fun. It's fun. Getting together with a group of people who like what you like and sometimes are also in costume is fun. Underlined for emphasis on the point of cosplaying. There are whole commmunities devoted to cosplays. And they make cosplays, they get together and have fun.

Tell me, do you think everyone who wears a costume on Halloween is an attention whore?

The entire issue with scantily clad cosplay is that it's the wrong kind of attention, but there can be no question of intent.

YES, there can be. Just because you think all cosplayers are attention whores doesn't make it so.

I'm not disputing that, it just doesn't make what I'm saying off-topic. Maybe what you're saying would be valid if it were never the case that someone is dressing up in a revealing gaming-related costume and if that weren't doing so they would still be at a gaming convention, but it's self-evident that this is not the case. The fact that there are exceptions, however large, to the full intentions of someone dressing up in a revealing costume doesn't make dressing up in a revealing costume irrelevant to trying to get attention.

It isn't irrelevant to whether someone genuinely enjoys gaming at all, it denotes motivation. You can assume that someone likes gaming if they're dressing up like Mad Moxxi, but they might not really give a shit because revealing cosplay fulfills a desire in itself and it's peripheral to gaming. You can assume someone likes gaming if they're playing a lot of videogames, looking at and talking about gaming-related shit, because they're expressing a direct interest in gaming.[/quote]

But it IS. It is irrelevant.. If they like attention, that's COMPLETELY irrelevant to whether or not they enjoy playing games. Your whole logic is "cosplayers are attention whores" and "geek girls are attention whores" therefore, "cosplayers are fake geek girls". It's really faulty.

 

[CaptainChip]

Just because a cosplayer chose a sexy costume does not mean s/he's not a fan of the show.

doesn't matter if they are a fan or not. Once you move from consumer to sexual commodity, it doesn't matter how much of a fan you are, you are just there for the attention. Its kind of like if we had a sports event delayed due to a streaker. No one sits around justifying her actions by saying "oh well, she really is a fan of the sport."

It doesn't matter if she's a fan or not, when her design choices makes it abundantly clear that its just about being a sexual commodity.

Usually whenever I see a streaker, they are usually male, and usually, they don't do it because "LOOK AT HOW SEXY I AM". They because they find it fun/funny. And because they're drunk also.

And even if they picked a sexy costume, does that mean they're doing it for attention? No! Has it NEVER occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, they really like the character?

Mate, all cosplay, without fail is for attention. These cosplayers don't walk the dog, od the dishes, or go play in the park in these costumes mate. It is done specifically to garner attention. Thats not bad in and of itself, but when it is done specifcally to be a sexual commodity, regardless of ones love for a franchise, one still needs to get a reality check.

If you go to con wearing two inches of material, the predominate thought in your mind is not "how much will my fellow geeks love me for my mind & encylopediac knowledge of all things geeky."

So lets put a cap on this bullshit already. Women who go to cons dressed in barely there costume are not doing it for love of a franchise: They are doing it for the attention they can garner by looking like a sexual commodity. something you'd have gathered had you read any of the previous 20 pages.

Tell me sir, have you ever cosplayed? Have you ever been part of a cosplay group or talked with cosplayers?

It's because it's fun. Plain and simple fun. That's all there is to it. I've cosplayed many a time, and it's fun.

EDIT: Also, as I said in a previous post: "cosplayers are attention whores" and "fake geeks are attention whores" does not mean "cosplayers are fake geeks". This conversation is still irrelevant to the topic.

 

[Locque]

Claiming there's no such thing as 'fake' nerd girls only proves you haven't experienced the phenomenon. For the purposes of this, I'm going to leave cosplayers who don't really care about anything except costumery out of the equation. Fake nerd girls *do* exist, and they are a much sadder indictment of male gamers that they prey on than they are of female anything.
As it happens, I get mixed up in a lot of nerdy stuff- liked tabletop miniature wargaming and pen and paper roleplaying. As it also happens, I have female friends who happen to enjoy, or have a varying level of interest, in both of those hobbies. Said female acquaintances also acknowledge the existence of these 'fake nerd girls'. You see, it is unfortunately true to the stereotype that the average (male) roleplayer/tabletop gamer is perhaps not the most socially well adjusted of people,and there is a tendency towards a body type that resembles some sort of human cocoon for a burger-king butterfly. Female contact, especially friendly, approving, and affectionate female contact, massages the tormented psyche of these less fortunate gamers, who rarely have the opportunity to enjoy the company of women. Thus, some females, perhaps ones who are not the most popular in other places, can cultivate a harem of attention-providing schlubs by simply talking to them while wearing a Gears of War tshirt or whatever.

In the end,it bothers me (slightly) that these nerds allow themselves to be manipulated so easily, more than anything. It is also mildly irritating to hear someone claim how they're "like, sooooooo into C'thulhu," in the same way people laughing uproariously and screaming "the cake is a lie!" were a few years back, when you knew they had never ever played Portal and didn't understand what the sentence even meant. I'm not gonna lose sleep over it. However, Jim's asanine rant (never change, Mr Sterling) merely blames men for imagining the entire thing. No one likes to see their "scene" degraded into a desperate whoring for attention. If the internet hated on guys pretending they had read Wilde, Voltaire, Nietzsche, or whatever in a desperate attempt to get attention from literary-minded women, no one would bat an eyelid- but because this view targets women, who have already have enough negative and crappy aspects of nerd-dom to deal with, it's dismissed out of hand.

The thing is, fake nerd girls do contribute to the issues that are holding back gaming- they objectify themselves, and revel in simple attention whoring. While no doubt a bunch of the people hating on them on the internet are simply the angry misogynists who can't connect with women themselves, I do think it's a thing that needs to be confronted and dealt with, until we, as a subculture, grow the fuck up.
And I left cosplay out of it entirely.
Thank you for reading, if you bothered.

 

[Astro]

"Fun. It's fun. Getting together with a group of people who like what you like and sometimes are also in costume is fun. Underlined for emphasis on the point of cosplaying. There are whole commmunities devoted to cosplays. And they make cosplays, they get together and have fun.

Tell me, do you think everyone who wears a costume on Halloween is an attention whore?

YES, there can be. Just because you think all cosplayers are attention whores doesn't make it so.

But it IS. It is irrelevant.. If they like attention, that's COMPLETELY irrelevant to whether or not they enjoy playing games. Your whole logic is "cosplayers are attention whores" and "geek girls are attention whores" therefore, "cosplayers are attention whores". It's really faulty."

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

I don't think it being fun makes a difference.

If a girl is wearing a scantily clad costume on Halloween, yes, she is seeking attention. It's less contemptible because of the context, however, obviously.

No, that is not my "whole logic" at all. No where have I stated that it's impossible to be genuinely passionate about gaming and wear a provocative costume. You, on the other hand, seem to be trying to argue that because it's a possibility that you aren't trying to draw sexual attention to yourself by wearing a Mad Moxxi costume, that must mean no-one ever does, so it's illegitimate to question the intent of any person in cosplay. The issue with your argument is that it requires you to ignore blatantly attention-seeking behavior and the acute lack of non-sexualized female cosplay.

 

[Chemical Alia]

All this thread has succeeded in is making me hate nerds and nerd culture even more than I usually do. For such a "maligned" group ofpeople, some of you sure seem to have an unusual interest in judging others.

Not to mention a downright baffling qualification process.

Only one person here has given any kind of actual criteria to be met before one can call themselves a "gamer", and fuck, even my experience wasn't up to snuff because I hadn't played any of the MMO's I've played since their Alpha release.

A true gamer will have beat Ecco the Dolphin 1 and 2 between the years of 1992 and 1996, without the aid of Game Genie or level select. <10 trilobite deaths, no throwing of the controller.

I've never played an MMO, nor do I ever care to, so maybe I can just construct my own rigid set of criteria someone has to meet for me to take them seriously as a video game hobbyist.

But yeah, I've seen this kind of attitude in other areas, particularly art, and it's just as sad. I think there was even some dude in this thread somewhere saying the same thing about how amateur photographers were defiling the art form he does for a living. How many artists started off with just a casual interest in a medium, just messing around in Photoshop, drawing shitty Sonic the Hedgehog fanart, making bad Steam Workshop 3d models, or taking crappy amateur photos? Probably most of them! That's not to say that all crap beginner artists will ever become professional, or even want to, but having a casual interest often leads into improving, learning, and doing much greater things.

I could take a shitty and elitist attitude and hate on everyone who isn't on the same level of experience as me, or I could encourage and help people who want to learn skills and show a bit of interest. And honestly, if they have no desire to become professional and simply enjoy the hobby at a lower skill level, who is to say that they're wrong in that? If you're so insecure your profession that you think that amateurs are bringing down the art form, then you probably never should have gotten into it in the first place. And if you're having trouble competing with them, then it's probably more of a personal problem.

 

[proghead]

Because fake is bad. Be it fake gamer girls, fake tits or fake cheese.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

So be a part of the solution here; propose to me a list of minimal criteria so I can submit it to my congressman and demand that liscensure be required before someone can legally call themselves a nerd/geek/gamer. We do it for doctors, legal personnel, military, ect, after all....

Just as a matter of personal reference I've always thought of geeks are to nerds what foodies are to kitchens. The difference between someone enjoying something for what it is, and them being driven to take some active role, no matter how slight or minor in the creative process.

But that's just my personal lexicon. Nobody else has to use it.

 

[Deadcyde]

for nihilists, you guys never shut up.

I get it. Fake people suck, elitism sucks.

Moving on.

 

[Xisin]

I really think a lot of people need to ask this one question: "So what?" Some girls like to pretend they are geeks...so what? Some men find that highly uncomfortable...so what? Sometimes I find people dressed in revealing outfits to be very funny...and again so what?

I have encountered tons of things I've liked and disliked, but it doesn't give me free range to tell others how to behave, if they are acting in a manner that is legal.

This argument seems even sillier than some. Every human is somewhat "fake." That's not a bad thing. Example: My husband updates me on his LoL Elo everyday. I don't care, he knows I don't care, and yet everyday I smile and say something along the lines of, "That's great, hun!" It makes him happy, and costs me nothing to smile. In return, when I prattle on about a book I just read, he pretends to listen even though I know he isn't.

Or for example, Sean, Seth, Tim, my Mom and I, all went to see the movie Troy because we heard that Brad Pitts naked bum was on screen. Now most of the people in the theater went to see the movie because of different assets(see what I did there ), but it doesn't change the fact that we all went to see it.

To bring it full circle, if certain women actually exist, that want to pretend they are into geeky things and some men want to ogle/pay attention to those women, have at it. Her reason for wanting to be a geek are her own, and he can talk to whoever he wishes. I don't want anything to do with it, but that's my choice...so what?

 

[Paradoxrifts]

Gaming is none of those. All those 'fake' yells burst when we apply reality towards it: There is no definition as to when someone is officially a gamer. The one 'joke' that someone threw here would dismiss about everyone (owned 5 consoles, partaken in 3 alphas of MMORPGs and such).
There is no minimum expertise that someone has to know to be a gamer. If someone plays video games he is a gamer. Be it the 30-60 minutes a day in CoD or the mom who only plays on facebook - they are gaming and thus they are gamer.

Gamer - A person who plays a game or games, typically a participant in a computer or role-playing game.

To use another analogy you will always get the rough outdoor types who deliberately hike out into the middle of the wilderness to camp underneath a canopy of stars devoid of light pollution, who will look down their noses at people whose idea of camping involves driving from campsite to campsite in their camper-vans.

And most anyone who does not own a camper-van will agree that so far as campers go, those that carry their own swag are more authentic 'campers' than those who don't.

 

[Pieturli]

When gamers wonder why we're not taken seriously? Why we're still held at a distance by the mainstream media?

Things like this.

This. A million times this. It's really sad to see that the stereotypical image of the gamer as a socially retarded, childish loser isn't that far off in many cases.

I also find it pretty funny that I've never been grilled on the subject of whether or not I'm a "true gamer". I'm a reasonably attractive, tall, physically active 22 year old man who is very socially capable. Funny how no one ever gives me any shit about being a poser.

I hate when people cry sexism, but "SEXISM!"