Jimquisition: Fighting The 'Problem' Of Used Games

[Use_Imagination_here]

I think you might have converted me there. It's still my personal philosophy that if you aren't paying for a pruduct a publisher developed and you're still enjoying it (that part is important people), your a dick. But your solution sounds a hell of a lot better than fucking online passes.

 

[VeneratedWulfen93]

Space Marine's online pass was an alright idea I thought. You could play until level 5 either entered the code to continue leveling if you bought the game new or buy it IF you thought it was worth your money. That said the multiplayer did seem a bit tacked on at the last minute I mean it was fun and all but the weapon imbalances were ridiculous.

 

[Something Amyss]

I don't have an problem with used games, I have a problem with retailers like gamestop. Their whole business model isn't about selling new games, its about getting people into their store and onto the used game treadmill.

Yeah! How dare they emphasize a form of business that is completely legal and ethical! The games industry is entitled to special treatment!

Sadly unless it is stopped ubisoft DRM and D3 will be the model for every game with a higher budget. You don't pay for the game, you pay for an account on a server somewhere.

The nice thing is between steam, android, and other internet sources there are plenty of independent games that I can use to suck up my gaming time.

Of course, Steam IS just what you described. You're not really buying or owning the games, you're paying for an account on a server somewhere. It's provisional, DRM-locked content just like ubisoft and everyone else people like to complain about, but somehow gets a pass in people's books because Steam gives them a tingly feeling.

If Ubisoft had the same PR as Valve, they could steal your kidneys in the middle of the night and still not get complaints.

Or as I call it, the Ron Paul effect.

On the topic, and less silly, I like pre-order bonuses. They won't sell me on a game, but they will switch me to a day one customer if I'm on the fence. And obviously, I'm buying new, so there's that. I like swag, too, but the days of good collector's edition items being plentiful seems to be long gone. Which is a shame. I mean, I still see some coolness, but mostly not.

The sad thing is, Jim is mentioning things that have been part of the publisher/developer toolkit for a long time, but seem to be falling into disuse as the standard motivator. It is, frankly, easier to lock out content than add new content. And yes, the "several bonuses, pick one only" thing kind of annoys me, unless you can get them later somehow. I hate retailer exclusive bonuses, because they make my buying experience worse instead of better.

 

[Althus]

One quick question.
Are online passes exclusive to consoles or also for the PC?
If so easy fix every one stops playing consoles and goes to PC.

 

[MasterOfWorlds]

I thank God for Jim Sterling on a regular basis. Of course, I thank myself for many things.

On a more serious note, I agree. And on the off chance that Mr. Sterling actually reads this; Thank you. I agree with the vast majority of what you say in your shows. Sure, I don't agree with all of it, but no one said that my creations were perfect. Although you were pretty close.

 

[Hitchmeister]

As many people are pointing out, it doesn't matter what you lock out of the game, some people are going to feel they aren't getting the full game if anything is locked away unless they pay full price for a new game or pay extra on a used one. The solution offered is no solution.

As far as, "Stop charging so much." You have no one to blame for that than your fellow gamers. They will rush out to be the first to own the latest iteration of any franchise that they make no effort to find out if it's any good, and will gladly pay too much to get it in they systems before the next guy.

If gamers want to see the problems with the game industry, they need look little farther than the nearest mirror.

 

[Redd the Sock]

Part of the problem with minor unlockable content jim is how disposable games have become to people. This is something that is largely generated by game companies that feel they have little reason to offer hundreds of hours of gameplay plus replayvalue in one game for your 60 when they can try and queeze multiple $60, 10 hour distractions, but then the turnaround became problematic hence the market gets all the blame. People that just want to beat it and sell it won't be detered from doing so be anything non major, and may even sell unused codes for the items with the game (it's happened to me). Common senese ideas like making the game worth the $60 new hit the wall of a business trying to sell in volume not quality. I know it sounds dumb, but games aren't movies: people won't buy the game a second time for being that good, while they'll see something in the theatre multiple times if they feel it's good enough.

Encouraging keeping one's games through various methods has been my prefered idea. How many people will play through the whole Mass Effect Trilogy to see various paths taken based on various choices in the past games? Another decent example would be the pacing of Dragon Age's DLC. It wasn't a quick batch of characters and Maps in the first 3 months then off to make the sequal. It was paced for a longer haul, and frankly, isn't that the best use of DLC: not to sell us things what were once unlockables, but to keep the game going months or even years after purchase, avoiding the need for cheap, more of the same sequals.

Then there's always some hope of trying to promote game collecting. Maybe just a poster of Suikoden 2 with the caption "if you sold this to gamestop for $5 credit you made a big mistake".

 

[person427]

You make it sound like all games are made by these rich executives. How much does an indie developer lose when a game is mostly bought used? Also note: these are the games more frequently bought used, as big titles have many people buying on launch day. Other than this point, I agree with you, but I'd like to see what you have to say about this.

 

[sordcooper]

ok, all the valid arguments about rewarding players and fan loyalty via freebies and neat little things that wont spoil shit for used buyer; I've basicly forgotten all of it because of that really cool glass you have, and how jealous i am of it... still a cool video though

 

[StriderShinryu]

I don't have an problem with used games, I have a problem with retailers like gamestop. Their whole business model isn't about selling new games, its about getting people into their store and onto the used game treadmill.

Unlike other retailers gamestop and similar "pawn shop" retailers leech off the marketing and promotion of publishers to attract customers, then when the customer is in the store try their damndest to get customers to buy used which parasitically sucks up the publisher's portion of revenue. Publishers are too chicken to just say "no" which leads to the endless whining cycle.

Bingo. This here's the truth.

The game industry isn't like any other industries, in terms of it's revenue models. Hence why all the "Durr, but used cars!!1!" or "But Movies!!!" arguments in the world don't work. The problem is the business model that has used game retailers using parasitic pricing models to syphon money away from new copy sales all under the illusion of offering savings. The solution is going to be found in some sort of new business and revenue model that works for everyone.

As for the topic at hand, it's all just differences in language. There really is little fundamental difference beyond locking something that's on the disc or offering something "extra" as a post release downloadable unless you really are talking about content that comes months down the line. It's just splitting hairs on terminology in a vein attempt to prove your point. The language may be different, but the concept is the same.

 

[CarlsonAndPeeters]

Here's the thing: every used gamer (or every annoying one) will complain about not getting an extra bonus as being "punished." There will be no difference between giving free stuff to people who buy the game new and taking things out when you buy the game used in the eyes of most people.

And I've always looked at pre-order bonuses as me getting stiffed some of the material in the game.

As a final point (and someone correct me on this if I'm wrong because I'm not sure), but don't used sales "take" money from developers, too? Developers that are constantly closing up shop and firing hundreds of employees nowadays? I give my money to them. I don't give half a damn about EA or Activision. But I want to support the people that work hard to make me happy. Does part of the online pass money go to them?

Clearly Jim and I just don't agree on this issue. And thats okay.

 

[Aureliano]

Excellent work, Jim. And yes: gold-plated foreskin and a thousand dogs was indeed appreciated. A little well-placed humor can go a long way.

 

[kajinking]

Ironic that I watched this with my Saints Row the Third preorder stub on my desk. I preordered the game since the second was great and the preorder trailer looked sick.

Great game+Good bonus= My god! First day buy! HE'S RIGHT!!!

 

[GeorgW]

I'm sorry, but WTF is the difference between rewarding new purchases and punishing used buyers? Either way the used buyers get screwed and the new purchases need to input a damn code. I don't care about some stupid tacked on multiplayer, but I do like more single player content. This is just a psychological twist most people will hopefully be smart enough not to fall for. How is this a solution??

 

[GonzoGamer]

I completely disagree.

Everyone should get that extra content. And it is really just being held back from the used sales.

Want a way to fight used sales? Simple: replay value. That's all it takes. Get them not to sell their games in the first place, there will be a shorter supply of used games and the customer will think more about getting a new copy rather than a used one.

Thank you.
I agreed with most of what Jim said in this series but I have to disagree with his perspective on the Rage codes. I don't like to see this scheme played out with actual game content.

I'm not against "rewarding" people who buy new or pre-order but it should not be done with game modes or content.

I think Fallout New Vegas did it properly even if different retailers did offer different stuff: you would get a set of armor, a weapon, and some items like stimpacks. That's a bonus. Game content should not be a "bonus," it should be included with the game.

Still, Rage is not as bad as LA Noir which had different gameplay content offered as bonuses at different retailers so no matter which one you went to, you were not getting the whole game. That was pretty sleazy.

 

[rembrandtqeinstein]

I don't have an problem with used games, I have a problem with retailers like gamestop. Their whole business model isn't about selling new games, its about getting people into their store and onto the used game treadmill.

Yeah! How dare they emphasize a form of business that is completely legal and ethical! The games industry is entitled to special treatment!

It isn't ethical to train your employees to act like dicks if the customer's initial request is for a purchase that doesn't maximize the store's profit.

Of course, Steam IS just what you described. You're not really buying or owning the games, you're paying for an account on a server somewhere. It's provisional, DRM-locked content just like ubisoft and everyone else people like to complain about, but somehow gets a pass in people's books because Steam gives them a tingly feeling.

I don't disagree that Steam isn't DRM. But the fact that gamecopyworld and piratebay exist means it is safe to buy from them. Nobody can ever lock me out of my purchases and if the DRM becomes too onerous I can strip it very easily. However I would never buy a game that is focused on multiplayer and doesn't allow for dedicated player-run servers.

And Steam at worst case requires a once a week or once a month phone home, D3 will require a continuous connection to play single player. So no mods, no cheats, no "offensive" names and you have to put up with the "important marketing messages" whenever you log in.

D3 no, Torchlight 2 yes.

 

[Irridium]

Another way to reward customers: pack in a bunch of physical goodies, like CD Projekt Red did with The Witcher 2, and what Atlus is doing with Dark Souls.

Also, Metal Gear Solid 3 is fucking amazing and I will never let it leave my possession.

 

[Jumplion]

I think people tend to forget that it isn't the publishers that get all the extra money, the developers also need that so they can, you know, continue making games.