Jimquisition: Friends

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dragongit

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On my PSN I currently have NO friends on my friend list because I didn't give a shit about adding more people that I didn't know, and probably wouldnt' even bother playing with a second time. Even on Steam I have about 20 people, where 5 of them I even keep regular contact with.

Raising the limit on the average joe, does nothing, since most of us probably won't fill it out. I get Celebs having this issue but for the rest of us it's a toss up.
 

Kross

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Fenix7 said:
I swear the average intelligence on Dtoid comments is about 1500% higher than here. Coincidentally, the Jimquisition was also funnier when it was made there.

dont worry sterling we know you have to make a living so we dont judge you
Well, at least you're here to raise the bar. ;)

The primary use of a gaming service's friends list is multiplayer matchmaking. It's nice to be able to add many friends, including "that guy who wasn't terrible on my team that one time" for actually having more reasons to use the console and play games online with friends. It would be nicer if you could categorize your friends list to aid in matchmaking.

I imagine this is what "following" is trying to enable on the Wii 2?

Also, for online gaming, there can easily be several hundred people that you've played with across multiple games. Especially if you've messed around in Guilds or online communities like this one. You may not talk to them regularly, but often there's "large groups" of people who game together.


With a 100 person friend limit, you have to restrict your friends list to some kind of awkward contact list full of mostly real life friends who may not even play games that much but still want to be your Xbox friend.

Gamers who want to play something regularly end up doing silly things like meta contacts that just add other people who play a specific game (and you look at friends of friends to find people). But then once you have more then 100, you have to start a second meta contact. And none of the people on the first contact are allowed to be on the second, so you still only have a pool of 100 people who might be online when you want to play.

There definitely has to be a max limit to prevent abuse (there's always people who just want the highest number possible, which generally causes a non linear amount of extra server load), but it should be closer to 1000 then 100.
 

chozo_hybrid

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Jul 15, 2009
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Jimothy Sterling said:
Remember, I addressed the "pettiness" of the complaint in the video. This isn't just about friend lists -- the friends thing is merely the baseline example of how formulaic and outdated game companies are allowing themselves to be. Those complaining that this video is "just" about friend lists are kind of missing the clearly stated point.
I got to admit, I did miss the point... So I re-watched the video, I get what you mean now.
 

joshthor

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I can see the reason for a friends list limit - i see people on facebook and twitter posting the stupidest spammy crap to get people to "like" or "follow" them. its super annoying. that being said, a limit of 1000 is more than 99% of people would ever need, not cause the spam, and it would be all good. that being said, i have no idea why you would want that many people. i used to have 600 friends on facebook and it was a hell-nightmare before i deleted 500 of them. my rule - only add people you know moderately well or are hot.
 

Imp_Emissary

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Jimothy Sterling said:
Remember, I addressed the "pettiness" of the complaint in the video. This isn't just about friend lists -- the friends thing is merely the baseline example of how formulaic and outdated game companies are allowing themselves to be. Those complaining that this video is "just" about friend lists are kind of missing the clearly stated point.
On topic then; How manty other things do you think the games industry is still doing "just because"?

My guess is some where between 155-1005.
 

Imp_Emissary

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Jimothy Sterling said:
gardian06 said:
Jimothy Sterling said:
Remember, I addressed the "pettiness" of the complaint in the video. This isn't just about friend lists -- the friends thing is merely the baseline example of how formulaic and outdated game companies are allowing themselves to be. Those complaining that this video is "just" about friend lists are kind of missing the clearly stated point.
you do realize that by basing the forefront of the argument on a what many would consider to be a non issue then it is more likely to be struck with a massive reducto-ad-absurdum targeting your base pillar, and thereby making the entire point just seem absurd. If you were to have started off by mentioning the part about Hulu, Netflix and used that as the base of your argument, and then moved on to discussing the friends list thing. Then it would have been less likely for such attacks to be as pervasive. but were it felt that the rest/majority of your poinient are argument was more or less in passing, and the limitation of the friends list seemed to be the core it feels like it is the only point being stated.
I like to think I have a greater respect for the reasoning capabilities of most of my viewers than that.
Thank you Jim.


Don't ever change who you are.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Imp Emissary said:
Jimothy Sterling said:
Remember, I addressed the "pettiness" of the complaint in the video. This isn't just about friend lists -- the friends thing is merely the baseline example of how formulaic and outdated game companies are allowing themselves to be. Those complaining that this video is "just" about friend lists are kind of missing the clearly stated point.
On topic then; How manty other things do you think the games industry is still doing "just because"?

My guess is some where between 155-1005.
You could always watch roughly 50% of my Escapist videos to date for a nice selection. :)
 

Imp_Emissary

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Jimothy Sterling said:
Imp Emissary said:
Jimothy Sterling said:
Remember, I addressed the "pettiness" of the complaint in the video. This isn't just about friend lists -- the friends thing is merely the baseline example of how formulaic and outdated game companies are allowing themselves to be. Those complaining that this video is "just" about friend lists are kind of missing the clearly stated point.
On topic then; How manty other things do you think the games industry is still doing "just because"?

My guess is some where between 155-1005.
You could always watch roughly 50% of my Escapist videos to date for a nice selection. :)
Jim. Where do you think I got that figure from? I have been watching your show since it first came on the Escapist.

The show, and you have only gotten better. :D
 

jehk

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I think you're using the friends list for something other than it was intended. It was designed so you can keep in contact with friends you want to play games with. For the vast majority of users 100 is probably enough to fill that need. You seem to have a different need from what MS/Sony/etc are trying to solve. Its like bitching about your dishwasher not being good for cleaning your laundry. Both are just specialized tools designed to fill a particular need.
 

Oskuro

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And where we say "friends", we could say "chest-high walls"...

Tangentially, it could be argued that the optimal number of "friends" anyone can have is around 150 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar's_number], and it'd have some merit if that was the reason argued by the industry when implementing these limitations... At least that's something you can debate on.

But, then again, let's cut them some slack, there is way too many generic shovelware that needs to be shit out for the Wii-U, they can't really be expected tackle these issues! :p
 

mjc0961

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Where do I sign up for this insurance? Does it cover internet wankers? I did just buy a Wii U after all, so there's a lot of trolls who would not be missed by anyone if their throats were mysteriously slit...

Anyway, the friends list thing. 100 is kind of a small limit, but I've never cared because I tread it as a friends list, not a random people who like me but I don't know who they are list (my problem would be why do I want all these random people's Miiverse posts and online/offline notifications getting in the way of stuff I care about). I haven't had any problem yet with the follow feature on Wii U either (although I am only following 2 people so far), but that one having a 200 limit is stupid. 200 is two times more than the paltry 100 friends but still too small considering that there's no good reason for it. Yeah, I don't want anywhere close to 100 friends myself, but other people being able to have more friends doesn't hurt me in any way either so it's not like I'm against it. Fix it, Nintendo! Fix it, Sony! Fix it, Microsoft! You killed Xbox Live support for the original Xbox years ago, you no longer have a compatibility issue.
 

geizr

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It's interesting that many comments posted in this thread assume that just because they don't have 100 friends that there is no way ANYONE would have 100 friends. We must remember that our own personal situation is not necessarily reflective of others. Furthermore, there are those outgoing individuals and people in public arenas (for example, Jim Sterling) that could easily have a need for such a large friend's list because they have a large following and need to maintain social links in order to maintain their own publicity. While I myself don't have anywhere near as many people to put on a friend's list, I do know that not everyone in gaming is a unsociable recluse or a shy introvert. Such people could easily push the limits of the 100 limit friend's list.

Another thing is that the concept of "friend" on the Internet has a very, very loose meaning compared to how the concept is regarded in real-life social interactions. Often on the Internet, "interesting person", "casual acquaintance", or "momentary associate" is enough to garner "friendship" status. Often, just someone you played a game with once and had a lot of fun playing with them is enough to obtain "friend" status. However, in real-life, obtaining the status of "friend" generally takes a long-term social interaction in which there is a build-up of trust, sharing, companionship, and emotional support. There's much more weight in the concept of friend in real-life, and because of the time and effort required, most people are likely to not have 100 real-life friends. But, because on the Internet, friendship has such loose regard and restriction, it is not usual for someone to develop a list of 100+ "friends", even though they only associate with those people briefly, compared to the much longer term basis of real-life friendships. Furthermore, Internet friendships tend to be brief, but not everyone makes the effort to prune their "friend's" list unless they absolutely have to (although, this could be a rationale for a limited size "friend's" list, to force pruning at SOME point); so, it's not unusual to have a grown list of dormant "friends".

I guess ultimately where I am going with all this is that people shouldn't assume that just because they themselves do not have a large "friend's" list, they shouldn't assume that it is not true of others. Public figures and high extroverted persons (yes, they do exist even in gaming) can easily develop large "friend's" lists. Further, the loose regard of the concept of friendship on the Internet can easily lead to extremely large "friend's" lists, even if those "friend's" are only a very brief association, because people quickly associate someone as "friend" and don't always prune their lists of dormant "friends".

Of course, the ultimate question, as several have voiced, is whether there is a real technical reason that the "friend's" list has to be of finite extent. If there is a technical reason, such as storage requirements, then it is reasonable that there should be a fixed size; however, the limit should be in proper proportion to the capacity of current technology, not technology of 10-15 years ago when a limit of 100 made more sense for reasons of technical limitations.
 

Arakasi

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I see this video as being less about the friends aspect, which people are focusing upon, and more about the bullshit people in the industry will do just to follow their competitors.
Why 100? Because they did it and it worked.
 

loc978

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This is a problem I've never even heard of. I have like... 6 friends on steam, one of whom lives under the same roof I do. I would be annoyed if I received friend requests from across the globe from people I've never met.

Still, it's true that there's no reason to put an arbitrary limit on such things. That would be like putting a hard limit on how many applications you install in an OS, instead of letting it just utilize the hardware it's on to the fullest.
 

Valanthe

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mjc0961 said:
Where do I sign up for this insurance? Does it cover internet wankers? I did just buy a Wii U after all, so there's a lot of trolls who would not be missed by anyone if their throats were mysteriously slit...
Oh god, you spent money on that? seriously why would you do such a terri- OH GOD HE HAS A KNIFE SAVE ME!!!


I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist, on topic now, I have to admit, I didn't even know there was a limit to the friends list. Back in the days of yore, when a friends list really was just used for networking with real life friends because the idea of playing games online still got you labelled as a basement dwelling nerd with no life, an arbitrary limit to prevent server stress made sense. Nowadays it's like Hollywood and any other big business, still too scared to admit that their outdated practices and policies just won't survive this bright new world, and so they bury their heads in the sand, refuse to change, and will get left behind as soon as someone not afraid to change comes along.
 

Aardvaarkman

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Jul 14, 2011
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A lot of Jim's potential friends seem to be terminally ill - it says "Expires in 26 days" under their names. This is a matter of life an death, people! Can't Nintendo grant these dying people one last wish of online friendship in their remaining days?
 

LordMonty

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Jul 2, 2008
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Sound wisdom my friend and fine example of englishmanamericanness.... yea well your amazingness was too great for little old england i guess and it does rain here and unholy amount.