Jimquisition: I'm Going To Murder Your Children

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geier

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Oct 15, 2010
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In my oppinion people like Phil Fish and Jennifer Hepler are just wussies. I worked as a bouncer for some time and got death threats on a regular basis.

The guys that threatend me were not stupid little fat fanboys behind their computer, but (mostly) drunken tatooed 6 foot idiots with a criminal record. And i got my threats directly in the face, not over the internet.

So dear game developer/writer, buckle up and stop crying.
 

Ipsen

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Jul 8, 2008
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generals3 said:
See now even if we assume there is "a gaming community" generalizing based on a small minority is silly. It's like saying "muslims are terrorists". And secondly there is no such thing as "the gaming community". A gamer is someone who plays game, just like a driver is someone who drives a vehicle. That doesn't mean there is a "driver community". Being a gamer describes what you do, not what you're part of.
...You've turned your original argument a bit inside-out. If above is a case, why worry about what that loud minority attempts to represent? I'm under the impression you find gaming an ultimately solitary experience (in close agreement myself); what bearing does anyone's input have, loud minority or no, compared to your own, for yourself?

Yes, as much as I'd love an unified gaming community, as far a scope as we tend to reach, you're in the right direction; it really IS just an assumption. A gaming community has to be about more than the games, it has to get the people involved to care for each other, stand up for each other. You'll always have assholes, but stretch the community too wide, and those assholes tend to pick up momentum. I'm reminded of a certain site, in this regard...
 

viranimus

Thread killer
Nov 20, 2009
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Ok, despite being loathed to agree witht he pack, yes the overall concept of "people should not have to endure threats for being creative" I think there is one major thing that is being missed here, and honestly in the whole linear progression of videos centered around telling people how their intolerance is intolerable, speaking out about one group getting lumped together as representative of the larger whole, and being the perpetual watchdog over community behavior.

These people who do shit like this are only a minor representation of what "gamers" are. We have seen estimates of what makes up the gamer demographic that range for example in the US from 35 to upwards of 65% of the US population, so hovering between 100 million (little less than 1/3rd) to 265 million (over 2/3rds) of the total population. With demographics potentially that large as a demographic it goes without saying that the handful of fuckwits purposely making life miserable out of their own selfishness is not representative of the culture as a whole. Yet in its criticism it basically IS taken as such.

Look Im not defending anyone who makes threats from behind the fading veil of anonymity of the internet. That behavior IS wrong. But I also used to work in a volatile industry that has the tendency to generate similar unjustifiable hatred. I have had my life threatened, I have been called quite literally every name in the book and in some cases had to import foreign language books to figure out I was being cursed. I have had people express their most sincere wish that me and my entire family are forced to suffer and die of malaria and all other manner of heinous disease. No it is not pleasant. No it was not appropriate. However if I allow the words of some jackov with a chip on their shoulder to adversely effect me, then the simple truth of it is, they won. They got the result they wanted. And by letting them win it would be proactively on my head because once they know they have in fact succeeded, they will see that bad behavior as being rewarded, and as such think it is an effective tactic. So next time they encounter similar situation what happens? "Well it worked last time, lets try it again"

Again, I do not like it, but you also have to see the long view of such things. For one, what is the alternative? Censoring the internet like so many naive and gullible people seemed determined to do nowadays for fear of anyone getting their feelings hurt? Yes it is a bad situation and someone deserves a fate that makes them wish for the fate they would wish upon others. Such is the price of freedom of speech, in any form. Yes it is ugly and unpleasant, especially when directed at ourselves personally but the alternative is far far worse and much more intolerable.

It is absolutely astounding that so many people in this day and age cannot grasp the simplest concept that the only person who can give power to words is you. It would be ok for people to not get it, if the people who DONT get it were not so seemingly bound and determined to take everyones freedom from them for fear that someone might get their feelings hurt.
 

Talvrae

The Purple Fairy
Dec 8, 2009
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Wow... Jim, we are starting to agree on more and more issues. your 100% right this time.
And seriously, that is how we reward a writter who try something different in the industry? I hear poeple complain about the bioware chart, that they always do the same things, well DA2 they tried something different... and here are the result
 

generals3

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Mar 25, 2009
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Ipsen said:
...You've turned your original argument a bit inside-out. If above is a case, why worry about what that loud minority attempts to represent? I'm under the impression you find gaming an ultimately solitary experience (in close agreement myself); what bearing does anyone's input have, loud minority or no, compared to your own, for yourself?

Yes, as much as I'd love an unified gaming community, as far a scope as we tend to reach, you're in the right direction; it really IS just an assumption. A gaming community has to be about more than the games, it has to get the people involved to care for each other, stand up for each other. You'll always have assholes, but stretch the community too wide, and those assholes tend to pick up momentum. I'm reminded of a certain site, in this regard...
You seem to have missed my initial point. I was actually annoyed at Jim's use of "we gamers" when talking about the actions of said tiny minority, as if the actions of said minority in any way represent anything about "gamers". I'd rather not be associated with those people and I find it rather tasteless for Jim to try and get people involved by linking them to those idiots.
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
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C.S.Strowbridge said:
I like Microsoft's idea of gamers ranking as a way to quarantine the assholes and maybe that will work and it will be enough.
No, it will not work. How would "gamer rank" correlate to decency as a person? Just look at Facebook comments. The "top ranked" posters are almost always the biggest assholes.

Hell, look at The Escapist forums. People are given higher titles simply based on their volume of posts, even though some of the most prolific posters are the worst. It's impossible to algorithmically determine goodness. People will always game such systems. The only way is to use personal judgement.
 

GonzoGamer

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Apr 9, 2008
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Am I surprised that some gamers are like the crazy lady in Misery?
No.
It's sad but I'm not surprised.
Lets see these idiots try and fuck with James Caan.
 

Frost27

Good news everyone!
Jun 3, 2011
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It's funny how many of the "entitled little shits" mentioned in the video are popping up all over this thread. Opening their mouths and showing just what type of people they really are.

So much "shut up and continue producing so I can consume" with absolutely no grasp of the situation. A lot of people appear to have grasped the point, the rest just drove it home further.




Jim, on the topic of driving home a point, I look forward to seeing your dragon dildo with quivering anticipation. I might have to go back and watch the Mass Effect gay sex narration you did in preparation.
 

1337mokro

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Dec 24, 2008
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WHAAAAAAAT????

You are joking right Jim? This wasn't an actual thing right? You made this up didn't you?

Gamers are living pieces of shit sure. Dragon Age 2 was a gigantic turd roasting in the barbecue sure. However I don't want to believe that when combined these two things created a hate turd so gigantic as to have it send death threats to the children of the writer.

I have never felt the urge to contact a dev personally and let them know just how huge a pile a human scum I am. I save that stuff for forum discussions with other fans and internet reviews of the product. You know the thing that actually sucked balls and has no feelings to hurt or children to threaten?

We need a cleansing in the gaming community. A big swatch from left to right slaying all these subhuman orklings that have mutated from once pleasant children that never grew up because of stunted growth induced by too much cheetos and mountain dew.
 

xPixelatedx

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Jan 19, 2011
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You're looking at this as:
The people of the Industry vs. gamers who don't like their games

This couldn't be further from the truth. You have to understand, now that video games are just as prevalent as movies, they attract all walks of life, including the most vile of trolls hiding behind anonymity. These are the kinds of people who will threaten to kill you and your children if you piss them off, regardless of context. It has nothing to do with gamers. While I agree that it's NOT OK to ever threaten anyone (and especially their children) I can't help but feel when I watch this video you're letting the worst of 4chan and the actions of some represent us all, and I can't help but feel you somehow think we have control over this. Psychos will be psychos, and psychos love the internet. Don't want the attention of the most abrasive people on the internet? Don't try to get it.
I loved Fez with it's complicated puzzles and Dragon Age 2 for it's different and very centered story, and I have nothing against Phil and Helper in relation to their profession or what they've done to their respective games. I think most people feel this way... Video games aren't in the equation at all.
We've all been hating on games we don't like for quite a while now, so why do you think Phil and Helper (specifically) got the flack they did? That's what you have to ask yourself, Jim.

I think you keep trying to center attention to games because it makes any grievances against these people seem all the more silly, and it does. But the truth is 'it's them as people' that I and many find problems with. They were unprofessional and postured up to the internet in an aggressive manner the moment anyone started saying things they didn't like. Here's the thing, you can't and shouldn't pick a fight with what could be an infinite amount of people, especially when you know there are some weirdos and psychos in the mix just going by the odds. It's one thing to disagree with them, even argue with them. Helper and Fish however gave them the middle finger... that basically guarantees harassment for a long, long time, because what you've told the trolls is basically they have to try harder to get under your skin. That isn't gamers, that isn't children, that's the internet; it's the very nature of this tier 1 phone we are all using right now.
Again, I don't believe they deserved the harassment they got, but it couldn't have happened any other way. It could have been avoided, to. They could have not told the internet to "come and get them" with a smile on their face. No one in any industry should be saying that, especially if they can't emotionally handle the outcome. Because believe it or not, acting like a jackass to a group of people makes you unpopular. That isn't even Internet anymore, that's the ways of humanity.

geier said:
In my oppinion people like Phil Fish and Jennifer Hepler are just wussies. I worked as a bouncer for some time and got death threats on a regular basis.
As someone goes by a semi-better known name (not leaving any hints) I also have gotten a great deal of creepy comments and even threats. While using my other handle, I make things not everyone is particularly fond of.. but when someone gets really upset, I actually reply with things like "Ok, we disagree" and literally end it at that. I don't call them names, I don't tell them to suck my dick. Basically, I try and act professional about it. Guess what? It works! I might still get that stuff from time to time, but it's in incredibly low frequency and ends abruptly. That's what happens when you handle things like an adult, instead of taunting the people who don't like you. Showing people they don't get under your skin is actually more effective way of dealing with things, rather then telling people to try harder or show them they're winning.

It's crazy, I know.
 

Saltyk

Sane among the insane.
Sep 12, 2010
16,755
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After reading some of the comments, I don't think we're gonna get to see the Dragon Tongue Dildo. I think that's the truly sad part about this. We fans are going to be denied our reward because a few people just can't seem to help themselves. This is why we can't have nice things.

Beyond that, totally agree with you, Jim. Who in their right mind would want to be a part of an industry where you can only be abused? Have your family threatened over a game? I love games, but I would never threaten anyone for ruining a game. I'd just turn them into the butt of jokes.

As always. Thank God for Jim!
[sub]And polygons, too, while you're at it.[/sub]
 

Ishal

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Oct 30, 2012
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TheKasp said:
"Oh no, lets defend this behaviour! We gamers can't have change for the better, we need to be scum! We need to abuse people and defending the abusal of others because I was once bullied as a kid!"

Pretty much the whole gaming culture.
Oh c'mon... look I get you are upset, but its not the whole gaming culture. You would say that every person on these forums is like that? Or do you now remove yourself from the culture even though you likely still play games?

I've been through the thread and haven't really seen anyone defending the death threats. It's a minority among certain games and certain places of the internet. It's reprehensible, but its not all of gaming. These sweeping generalizations need to stop.
 

Draconalis

Elite Member
Sep 11, 2008
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Imp Emissary said:
The person who tried to make this all about sexism was you.
Look man! It's sexist to assume only woman can birth kids.

On that note... I agree with your assessment that Retrograde's opinions are moot from here on out.
 

marurder

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Jul 26, 2009
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280 comments already. heh.

I agree with pretty much everything said.

1 - People with brains know this. But accept it anyways as the gradual norm. (die in a fire)
2 - We shouldn't need to say it. But we do. Ref point 1.
3 - Anonymous gamers on the internet are scum. We judge a group by the lowest common denominator - and that's where the world sees gamers at.
4 - Dev/Artist/Person says something, a percentage of gamers revolt and react. Some react in a hostile manner. News reports the reaction rather than the message. Gamers react to the news, media reports the reaction to the news... the saga continues. Gamers are a predictable bunch.
 

omnifarious

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Dec 7, 2012
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RaikuFA said:
The Phil Fish harassment. It wasn't just his remark about japanese games or his actions in IGTM. It was his actions since Fez was released where he has a "Holier than thou" attitude.
To be fair, Phil Fish was taking the harassment long BEFORE Fez was actually released. While I agree with you his actions after Fez's release were both colorful and lacking of taste, I also understand his need to vent five years worth of frustration.

And at the risk of repeating myself, he should have taking a boxing class or something because there's no winning an argument over the internet...