Jimquisition: Mass Effect 3 And The Case For A Gay Shepard

[Simonoly]

Would I be considered homophobic if I thought characters should have a set sexuality i.e. Kaiden could be gay, straight, or bisexual (don't know which one he is canonically) but would stay that way no matter the choices of Shepard? I just think that the fact that a character's sexuality will simply magically change to fit a player's preferences seems like a cop-out on the issue. And yes, I would be fine with a lesbian or gay character who refused the advances of the opposite sex.

I do see your point, though, especially if Bioware considers the romances more like rewards to the player. Overall, an excellent and thought-provoking video.

I think Dragon Age did that. There were certain characters that would not respond to your homosexual advances because they were straight. Although I don't think there were any exclusively gay characters in Dragon Age to turn down your heterosexual advances. I suppose it doesn't really matter in Mass Effect though, as in one persons story Kaiden might have always been gay but the relationship has only been able to develop in ME3, but in someone else's game he may have always been straight. I'm not even sure who's going to be romance-able in ME3.

 

[CleverCover]

I've got one problem with Bioware including gay romance options in ME3 that DOESN'T stem from homophobia: It's that they waited until ME3 to include them.

There's a rumour that this guy.

Didn't want his face associated with homosexuality.

Sounds like bollocks to me though, I mean, why would he suddenly change his mind?

I guess either pressure or Bioware went "You're not worth the hate of our fanbase" and pulled a screw you.

I always wondered why they used him. He's not even that cute.

 

[Cain_Zeros]

It was in Mass Effect 1 & 2 at one point:




Really have no idea why it was cut.

The dialogue in those Mass Effect 1 scenes was great. I'm disappointed that they were cut now.

 

[wintercoat]

The only way I would have a problem with it is if they went all Anders on it and made the gay LI's bitchy if you turn them down. Then again, at least in ME it doesn't effect their performance within the game if they get bitchy, so it wouldn't be as big an issue.

 

[kingpocky]

It was in Mass Effect 1 & 2 at one point:
*snip*

Really have no idea why it was cut.

Might sound like a conspiracy theory but I think it had to do with "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". When those games were out, DADT was is effect, but it has been repealed so they are doing it now, I guess. I mean in the first ME you had 9 planets, in ME2 their was only 8 planets (Keeping up with current trends?).

Doesn't really make sense. All the relationships are with someone directly in Shepard's chain of command, which is illegal as all hell. Even more so for Ashley, since enlisted personnel aren't allowed to have relationships with officers. Whatever Bioware's reasoning, I doubt they care that much about 21st century American military regulations.

 

[Alar]

Jim, I don't know how you managed it, but during your first couple of episodes I didn't like you that much, but thought I'd give you a thought. Now you're one of my favorites on the Escapist and I'm always glad to hear your opinion on these things.

 

[android88]

Didn't we already do this song and dance with The old Republic and Dragon Age 2? This is getting old.

 

[Eveonline100]

Even after I saw the description I thought of this: "I don't mind it as an option I have nothing against homosexuality,even less so in a game." And it still stands after watching the video.

I try to keep an open mind and perspective.

Now let's just hope that half the dimwits who make those excuses won't fall into a homosexual relationship without realizing it and then Fox News comes on board to completely degrade this subject into stupidity.

PS: Pretty sure that's gonna happen.

this being FOX news i'm surpised that already hasn't happend yet.

 

[Zen Toombs]

Well said, although you came on a bit strong.

Then again, saying that the Jimquisition came on too strong is the same as saying that a hurricane is a bit too windy.

 

[kurupt87]

Snip

All good, apart from your argument about the relationship between femshep and Liara.

You're right that anyone arguing the lesbian relationship doesn't count, because Liara is an alien, is a moron. The point however, that gay relationships already exist, fails because Shepherd is not female.

I'll obviously have to clarify that.

-

Shepherd can be played as a female and can go bump in the night with Liara, so it's an obvious gay relationship.

But the character of Shepherd is not female, it's male.

There is nothing female about the character at all. It is a player controlled embodiment of the soldier hero trope, which is entirely male. Shepherd has no real character himself, he borrows it all from the trope he represents. The assumption, if playing femshep and regarding sexuality, is that she is either a lesbian or sexually dominant; in other words male oriented, just like the rest of the character.

The story is written about a man. There is not a single iota of femininity in the character. The ability to be female is entirely cosmetic, the story does not accommodate a woman in that role. (Which is why I can't take femshep seriously or believe that gayshep will be at all believable, BW don't write stories that do those characters justice. They would differ enough from the trope to require actual characterisation, whereas mshep does not.)

This situation would be like putting a butch lesbian in a Barbie atmosphere game, that would not go down well. Put in a camp gay bloke on the other hand, that'd be fine. We're talking about the tropes the games deal with; one being the soldier hero and the other being the fashionista.

-

That distinction of butch and camp is actually really important too, because they are what you imagine when you hear lesbian or gay. You imagine a butch lesbian and a camp man, because those are the most different from the norm. Also, the tropes I mentioned earlier decide which is good or bad in the context of the game. In ME a butch lesbo is ok whilst a camp gay is bad, in Barbie the opposite is true.

That's something I feel probably upsets some of the complainers; that they feel their Shep is now tainted with "the camp", something that's actually bad, thanks to the optional retcon. (Obviously I think that to a small degree, because I can imagine others doing so)

It is, however, stupid because a whole heck of a lot of gay men aren't camp.

-

But, most importantly in this instance, your Shepherd's story is entirely controlled by your own good self. I managed to avoid BBC in ME2 as femshep, I think I'll be able to avoid it as mshep in 3.

 

[goliath6711]

I'm going to regret watching this, aren't I?

Dammit, I hate it when I'm right about these things.

Okay, let's get into this.

I refuse to get into this whole philosophical debate about the merits of homosexuality vs. heterosexuality and whether or not one has the right to exist over the other or this whole pedophilia bullshit because it has absolutely NOTHING to do with what we're talking about here. So if that's what you want to argue about, you need to take it somewhere else.

It was in Mass Effect 1 & 2 at one point:




Really have no idea why it was cut.

I don't take edited scenes with any weight. In Knights of the Old Republic, there was an ending that was edited out where if you took the dark side path, Carth shows up at the end to plant a bomb on the Star Forge and tries to convince you one last time to renounce your evil ways. Bastila kills Carth, then you can kill Bastila and let yourself be killed in the explosion. In Knights of the Old Republic II, whether your previous character was a Jedi hero or a Sith villain, they're officially still alive.

and why are people getting butthurt over OPTIONAL CONTENT!!!!! -.- seriously, grow the fuck up, no ones forcing anyone to make your character gay, so shut up about it, cause ya know IT'S JUST A GAME

You realize that is the only saving grace here. I see this exactly as I saw Garrus and Tali suddenly becoming options in Mass Effect 2. Something completely stupid and pointless that I can completely ignore and put out of my mind. But what if I couldn't? What if this was put into a game like Uncharted or Gears of War or Resident Evil?

If you're going to include something like this, you'd better make sure you do it to add some weight and not throw it in "just because". It's just like throwing in an interracial relationship just to say you wanted one and not putting any thought as to why these people would want to be together.

The only thing that bugs me about is that it makes the NPCs in mass effect, a series praised for it's writing, nothing more than wish fulfillment vessels to the player.

This is a tricky situation because video games are supposed to either be empowered or in control of their world. But, as an example, I actually didn't know you could sleep with Ashley in ME1 and I thought it was because of her religious convictions. This didn't bug me, it earned Bioware kudos from me for writing a good and believable character (I didn't sleep with anyone because Liara wasn't my type).

Now Jacob has had a relationship with Miranda, it's brought up early on in ME2. I never got any gay vibes of Jacob in ME2. But if the player wills it, he can make Jacob gay. If the player doesn't go down the gay route in ME3 Jacob will be heterosexual, if the player goes down the gay route in ME3 Jacob will be homosexual.

This might sound stupid but it bugs me that NPCs are not being written as characters with their own motives, beliefs, etc. and instead are around simply to adapt to what the player wants out of them. I think overall that makes a less compelling story, although a much more compelling power fantasy fulfillment simulator.

How many people do you know who would honestly switch their sexuality at the drop of the hat? or go both ways? I know bi-sexuals exist, but almost everyone in a Bioware game seems to be that way and I think the bi-sexual example is being used as a cover for what I view as poor character development.

I would prefer some more concrete sexuality. Some characters that are purely homo, purely hetero and then some benders. I think it would ultimately lead to stronger characters as their motives are based on their wants instead of mine (as the player).

I have no problem with same sex romance in Bioware games. I applaude Bioware for them and for the inclusivity of their games on any level (like female PCs and female oriented marketing).

I admit to have some problem withe the whole concept of the necessity of romance in Bioware games, to the point where a significant part of their fanbase play Bioware's games ONLY for the romances. To the point where a Bioware game without romances is considered substandard no matter what. For example, in DA2 case it would have been better to invest on other more substantial matters, considering the result (for exampe, more varied environments). But I'm talking of all romances, not just same-sex ones.

But at the end of the day romances are optional content and there is no one forcing me to play them. So, I simply share MC Avelone position on the issue: CRPG could even be done without romances. For many folks on Bio boards that's blasphemy.

Having said all of that, I have one minor issue about same sex romance. Maybe I'm just homophobic as Sterling like to point out but I do not like the fact that in the race to cut corners, Bioware is turning every romancable NPC in to some sort of bi-sexual. I mean, you can have a bi-sexual in the romance cast. You can have a couple of bi-sexual. But not all charachters being bisexual so they are sure to please everyone while cutting corners.

It just does not make a lot of sense in my view and it has shown a lot of problem in a game like DA2. I would prefer each NPC having his own personality and sexuality. Each charachter should look like a real person and not just like a sex-doll in the hand of the player (being straight or gay).

These are the exact points that I'm trying to make. Look at how despite your high paragon status and constant advances, Samara still respectfully turned you down. Doesn't that say more about her character than if she joined the long line of those waiting to bump uglies with you? I'm getting tired of the God Complex that people want to have over games like this. You want complete and total control over what your own character does and how they act, that's fine. But you shouldn't be able to have that same control over the ones that are supposed to have their own personality. I mean honestly, if you met 6 or 7 random people on the street, would you expect all of them to be bi-sexual? It would mean so much more if you had those that turned you down so that the ones that accept you would be that much more special instead of having everyone made available and the only restriction being that you can only choose one to be with.

But in all honesty, this is a moot point. In the grand scheme of everything, arguing about this makes about as much sense as arguing about the decal options for your cars in Forza 4. You bought that for the realistic driving and you're buying this for the climactic battles and end-of-life-as-we-know-it storyline. So I am now officially and undeniably done with any and all Mass Effect 3 related debates, arguments, put-downs, whatever. Tomorrow, I finally get the game I've been wanting for the last five years and I am guaranteed that it will not disappoint in any way.

 

[Kahunaburger]

These are the exact points that I'm trying to make. Look at how despite your high paragon status and constant advances, Samara still respectfully turned you down. Doesn't that say more about her character than if she joined the long line of those waiting to bump uglies with you? I'm getting tired of the God Complex that people want to have over games like this. You want complete and total control over what your own character does and how they act, that's fine. But you shouldn't be able to have that same control over the ones that are supposed to have their own personality.

I like this human! (S)he understands!

 

[BanZeus]

That said, maybe there's a problem with giving achievements and such for the homosexual options. Because unlocking achievements is part of gameplay for a lot of people, and I seem to recall getting one for fucking Zevran.

You get the achievement for Zevran regardless of your character's gender.

The real problem is having to start a completely different character to get all of the achievements instead of being able to tell Alistair to put on a dress and take it like a man.

 

[zinho73]

Well said Jim.

Very well said.

I'm homsosexual Commander Shepard, and this is my favourite video on the escapist.

Way to go.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

To be honest, I skipped through last week's video in about thirty-second increments, hoping that he'd do something like...well, like this, but it turned out to be seven minutes of gay fanfiction. Instead, virtually every skip I made brought me mid-sentence to another homonym for 'and then he came buckets.'

I heard 'A Modest Proposal' being tossed around a lot, but Jonathan Swift at least had some restraint in what he was describing. The video, on the other hand, ran far too long, and was made all the worse by how annoying/painful it was to listen to. If I want horrific-sounding erotic fanfiction, I'll go to the Topless Robot, and at least there I get funny commentary every few sentences.

This video was a lot better, but Christ, Jim's schtick is starting to grate on my nerves. He's always resorted to strawmen to 'reinforce' his arguments, but have we really gotten to the point that images of insulting nerd stereotypes are what we, members of a gaming website, use to vilify the people we don't agree with?

I might be a bit more understanding of it if he didn't provide a screencap of an actual poster who was posing one of the arguments he was debunking. Why couldn't he just do that for each? Yahtzee at least used actual viewer mail rather than resorting to a bizarre stereotype and a high falsetto to set up targets for his comebacks.

Still, I applaud your point, and the segments where you just speak flat-out rather than building fake opponents to fight with. Hell, if you'd used a few actual posts from the last one, I'm sure that those people would be as inundated by angry comments as I've no doubt 'Xanthious' was/is.

 

[kingpocky]

Snip

snip

I sort of see what you're saying, I just don't see how it leads up to your conclusion. You're saying that femshep isn't really female because she has masculine traits? I know that human sexuality is a complicated and multifaceted thing, but generally if you are with a person who is biologically the same sex as you, (or in this special case for the reasons Jim outlined, an alien who looks like a human of the same sex) it is considered a gay relationship.

Femshep is pretty butch, I'll agree. But a butch woman who is attracted to women is still a lesbian. I'm not really following why you say it's different. If Shepard is a man, no matter which gender you choose, then that would make a relationship between her and Kaidan gay, since it is two masculine people.

 

[Hosker]

People are getting angry at shadows. Very few people actually have some sort of a problem with this.

 

[Kevin Armstrong]

Awesome funny video, great points. I wonder if shoving the rubber cock-bat in your mouth was necessary, but it made me go ha-ha none the less.

Trust me, it was necessary.

I really needed to do it.

jim thank god for you you show the simple minded fucks how the world and how should correct it buy very simple means

 

[Fappy]

Did Jim just deep-throat a dildo?

Also, who the fuck is that black guy in the video nailing male Shepard?