Jimquisition: Solving the Sexism Situation

[jrplette]

So much hate... so many sticks up so many asses....

I was actually surprised Jim wasn't censored or made to be less vulgar. At least after what happened to the first few movie bob videos, I thought the Escapist would shutdown any vulgarity(audio and visual) that wasn't Yahtzee or the occasional LRR show. It just turns off so many people.

Now, I like the show. I don't mind the cursing or other vulgar bits. I just don't really get the people who are complaining about this show not covering new topics. I don't think any show on the escapist has recently covered a topic that wasn't already beaten into the ground. All of gaming's issues are fairly old(internet time). And seriously, how many times do we get "half naked dudes" as an answer to sexism rather than the obligatory and neutered response "We shouldn't objectify women." I don't think either sex minds being thought of as sexy. As long as the character isn't vapid, who cares how much clothing is being worn?

Jim's style is to be half tongue in cheek, half making a point. Which doesn't seem to resonate with a lot of people here. But I think it's mostly the cursing/penises that skew everyone's opinions, not necessarily the actual content. Keep the show, I like it... might want to slap a NSFW warning on it, though.

The thing is, it really ISN'T tongue in cheek; even if that's what he was going for, it didn't come off that way at all. A lot of what he said in this episode was really, REALLY sexist and it was really NOT OK. And by sexist I mean reinforcing the notion that women are and should be subjugated to men's whims and desires, not in the "I hate women" way that he has attempted to portray accusations of sexism in the past. His "jokes" all speak to this feminist concept of white male privilege, which is a really intense and in-depth topic that I won't get into here but would encourage you guys to look up if you are so inclined.

At any rate, what he's saying and the way he's saying it is highly inappropriate if we're going to discuss gaming as a mature community capable of effecting change for the betterment of everyone involved in gaming. It's ignorant, it's hurtful, it's sexist and misogynist and it needs to stop.

 

[swood]

I totally understand what he was trying to present, and I agree about the need for equality in games. The way says it though sucks, it smacks of heteronormativity and for lack of a better word ignorance. I come to the Escapist because it has awesome content, that is well thought out and funny. This is neither of those things, not to be mean but it makes the gaming community look bad.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

Well, I'm not sure the delivery necessarily adds anything to the argument (indeed, I would say that he detracts significantly from the real point), but this is something I've been saying for a long time. The Japanese industry is already moving in this direction (indeed, they've begun to build whole franchises around the "sexy, half-naked men" idea) in some pretty big ways, even if no one comments on it (following in the footsteps of Japanese comics and Japanese television). We're also starting to see a lot more of this in big Hollywood films. It is my personal theory that this trend goes unremarked by the academics who raised awareness of the issue in the first place (credit here goes mainly to the excellent work of feminist film criticism) because it is not a kind of change that they ever anticipated, nor is it the specific change that they had hoped to see. We are, nevertheless, moving towards equality, even if the reality bears little resemblance to what we had originally envisioned, and I welcome it as such.

At any rate, what he's saying and the way he's saying it is highly inappropriate if we're going to discuss gaming as a mature community capable of effecting change for the betterment of everyone involved in gaming. It's ignorant, it's hurtful, it's sexist and misogynist and it needs to stop.

I get that about the style, but not so much about the actual content (the central point, anyway, the tangential stuff was pretty awful). If you like, I can show you where to look up figures that show sex sells to women just as well as it does to men, although I can't see why anyone would be trying to dispute that fact at this point. There's nothing that says a character of either gender can't be attractive and a good character at the same time (the "sexy = sexist" argument has been doing us quite a lot of harm for some time now). Would you please explain your point in greater detail? I'm a touch autistic and nuances are often lost on me.

 

[Ben Hussong]

So much hate... so many sticks up so many asses....

I was actually surprised Jim wasn't censored or made to be less vulgar. At least after what happened to the first few movie bob videos, I thought the Escapist would shutdown any vulgarity(audio and visual) that wasn't Yahtzee or the occasional LRR show. It just turns off so many people.

Now, I like the show. I don't mind the cursing or other vulgar bits. I just don't really get the people who are complaining about this show not covering new topics. I don't think any show on the escapist has recently covered a topic that wasn't already beaten into the ground. All of gaming's issues are fairly old(internet time). And seriously, how many times do we get "half naked dudes" as an answer to sexism rather than the obligatory and neutered response "We shouldn't objectify women." I don't think either sex minds being thought of as sexy. As long as the character isn't vapid, who cares how much clothing is being worn?

Jim's style is to be half tongue in cheek, half making a point. Which doesn't seem to resonate with a lot of people here. But I think it's mostly the cursing/penises that skew everyone's opinions, not necessarily the actual content. Keep the show, I like it... might want to slap a NSFW warning on it, though.

The thing is, it really ISN'T tongue in cheek; even if that's what he was going for, it didn't come off that way at all. A lot of what he said in this episode was really, REALLY sexist and it was really NOT OK. And by sexist I mean reinforcing the notion that women are and should be subjugated to men's whims and desires, not in the "I hate women" way that he has attempted to portray accusations of sexism in the past. His "jokes" all speak to this feminist concept of white male privilege, which is a really intense and in-depth topic that I won't get into here but would encourage you guys to look up if you are so inclined.

At any rate, what he's saying and the way he's saying it is highly inappropriate if we're going to discuss gaming as a mature community capable of effecting change for the betterment of everyone involved in gaming. It's ignorant, it's hurtful, it's sexist and misogynist and it needs to stop.

essentially this. Doesn't matter if he was " trying to be sarcastic" he failed at that BIG TIME, if it's impossible to tell if your being a dick, or jokingly being a dick... you're being a dick.

 

[Gralian]

Er, we kind of have it both ways already. The amount of hyper-sexualised masculinity that borders on the homoerotic in games like Gears of War is outright ridiculous enough as it is. To be honest i think that's just as bad as the whole women in bikinis lark. Women wish female characters weren't so hypersexualised / hyperfeminised or 'submissive', well i wish men weren't all hypermasculinised douchebags who think it's cool to rock a six-pack and talk trash all the time.

 

[SergeantAnt]

OK, I've done some poking around and this Jim guy is NOT the sort of person I want representing me and my preferred pastime on the Internet. These tweets http://www.bettween.com/jimsterling/daphaknee/desc
Are evidence enough for me to petition the Escapist to take him off the site. I don't think the Escapist is doing itself any favors by associating themselves with him: I think it is more likely the opposite. He is representative of everything that is wrong with gaming culture today and he should NOT be given a platform like the Escapist to spread his message.

wow i read that and what a prick o.o
anyway yeah i don't like him too much anyway, just a boring waste of time really.

 

[Evilproduct]

COLUMNIST. Knock it off with the videos and make this a column. He has some good ideas, but they honestly would be better portrayed in a column.

 

[StBishop]

I find it amazing how this guy can talk for minutes on end without saying anything. Escapist, please stop paying this guy, this you guys above him. He's not funny, he doesn't make intelligent points, and he doesn't even say anything. He brings up the points without discussing them. That's twice now I haven't even been able to sit through his whole video.

This is my problem with the show. Ideas are all well and good but you can't just mention them and move on.

I'd like a little more exploration of the ideas other than "Sexism can be fixed by not reducing the objectification of women, but by objectifying men too!"
Why is that better?
What about homosexuality?
Where should this be done?
What steps need to be taken to achieve this?

The list of questions goes on and on and fucking on.

I don't want this show to stop, by all means keep producing it, it's entertaining enough and others enjoy it. I'd just like to see it developed a little, or perhaps this isn't the place for Jim.

 

[Semudara]

This really wasn't that bad; maybe you've seen those points before, but I haven't, and I thought it was an intelligent and mildly entertaining little speech.

Heck, half the complaints here seem to be his alleged support of child porn, which was in JEST. Next you're going to lampoon Stephen Colbert for his absurd comments! Whatever happened to satire? I don't care if it was lame satire, because lame satire does not make a person "reprehensible"!

Honestly, most of you need to cool your heads and try to post some genuine criticism.

 

[Earaldor Xerron]

Hm, it was funny. I just hope it was supposed to be funny without an ounce of seriousness in it...
This guy is an intelligent person, by the way. I don't really get why he tries so hard to look and sound like a complete ****ole though.

 

[swood]

So much hate... so many sticks up so many asses....

I was actually surprised Jim wasn't censored or made to be less vulgar. At least after what happened to the first few movie bob videos, I thought the Escapist would shutdown any vulgarity(audio and visual) that wasn't Yahtzee or the occasional LRR show. It just turns off so many people.

Now, I like the show. I don't mind the cursing or other vulgar bits. I just don't really get the people who are complaining about this show not covering new topics. I don't think any show on the escapist has recently covered a topic that wasn't already beaten into the ground. All of gaming's issues are fairly old(internet time). And seriously, how many times do we get "half naked dudes" as an answer to sexism rather than the obligatory and neutered response "We shouldn't objectify women." I don't think either sex minds being thought of as sexy. As long as the character isn't vapid, who cares how much clothing is being worn?

Jim's style is to be half tongue in cheek, half making a point. Which doesn't seem to resonate with a lot of people here. But I think it's mostly the cursing/penises that skew everyone's opinions, not necessarily the actual content. Keep the show, I like it... might want to slap a NSFW warning on it, though.

The thing is, it really ISN'T tongue in cheek; even if that's what he was going for, it didn't come off that way at all. A lot of what he said in this episode was really, REALLY sexist and it was really NOT OK. And by sexist I mean reinforcing the notion that women are and should be subjugated to men's whims and desires, not in the "I hate women" way that he has attempted to portray accusations of sexism in the past. His "jokes" all speak to this feminist concept of white male privilege, which is a really intense and in-depth topic that I won't get into here but would encourage you guys to look up if you are so inclined.

At any rate, what he's saying and the way he's saying it is highly inappropriate if we're going to discuss gaming as a mature community capable of effecting change for the betterment of everyone involved in gaming. It's ignorant, it's hurtful, it's sexist and misogynist and it needs to stop.

Thank god someone else said this, I didn't want to be the feminist talking about internalized male privilege. That is essentially the problem with this entire video. His perspective just reeks of hetero-male privileged. I don't dislike Jim my issue with him is he is really blinded in his approach to this topic. He may have been trying to joke about the subject, but as someone who possesses a vagina I'm insulted by the way he characterizes my sex and totally ignores the dehumanizing effects of objectification.

 

[Ben Hussong]

This really wasn't that bad; maybe you've seen those points before, but I haven't, and I thought it was an intelligent and mildly entertaining little speech.

Heck, half the complaints here seem to be his alleged support of child porn, which was in JEST. Next you're going to lampoon Stephen Colbert for his absurd comments! Whatever happened to satire? I don't care if it was lame satire, because lame satire does not make a person "reprehensible"!

Honestly, most of you need to cool your heads and try to post some genuine criticism.

Dude that only came up in maybe... the last one or two pages... PAY ATTENTION ( done in sarcasm voice)

 

[Hive Mind]

This really wasn't that bad; maybe you've seen those points before, but I haven't, and I thought it was an intelligent and mildly entertaining little speech.

Heck, half the complaints here seem to be his alleged support of child porn, which was in JEST. Next you're going to lampoon Stephen Colbert for his absurd comments! Whatever happened to satire? I don't care if it was lame satire, because lame satire does not make a person "reprehensible"!

Honestly, most of you need to cool your heads and try to post some genuine criticism.

If bashing someone for lamenting the loss of their child raping video games (even IN jest) is unfair to you, you may need to take a step back and rethink things.

 

[loodmoney]

If it were anyone else, I would say it isn't defensible, obviously. But knowing Jim, and seeing how exaggerated that quote is, there's no way in hell I think he's serious. Anywhere else, such a comment would be called satire. Do I think that article was funny or "satirical"? No. But do I think it was sexist? No.

I don't like Jim and agree with the majority for the most part. I just don't think he's sexist and I believe throwing around the word is a disservice to everyone. Agree to disagree, I suppose.

"[T]hrowing around the word is a disservice to everyone"? Really? How is he not sexist? Someone much smarter than I will have to explain this, because as far as I can tell, Sterling is quite possibly the most mysogynistic arsehole in the gaming world.

And if this is satire, can you tell me what his point is? I am genuinely curious.

 

[Ben Hussong]

So much hate... so many sticks up so many asses....

I was actually surprised Jim wasn't censored or made to be less vulgar. At least after what happened to the first few movie bob videos, I thought the Escapist would shutdown any vulgarity(audio and visual) that wasn't Yahtzee or the occasional LRR show. It just turns off so many people.

Now, I like the show. I don't mind the cursing or other vulgar bits. I just don't really get the people who are complaining about this show not covering new topics. I don't think any show on the escapist has recently covered a topic that wasn't already beaten into the ground. All of gaming's issues are fairly old(internet time). And seriously, how many times do we get "half naked dudes" as an answer to sexism rather than the obligatory and neutered response "We shouldn't objectify women." I don't think either sex minds being thought of as sexy. As long as the character isn't vapid, who cares how much clothing is being worn?

Jim's style is to be half tongue in cheek, half making a point. Which doesn't seem to resonate with a lot of people here. But I think it's mostly the cursing/penises that skew everyone's opinions, not necessarily the actual content. Keep the show, I like it... might want to slap a NSFW warning on it, though.

The thing is, it really ISN'T tongue in cheek; even if that's what he was going for, it didn't come off that way at all. A lot of what he said in this episode was really, REALLY sexist and it was really NOT OK. And by sexist I mean reinforcing the notion that women are and should be subjugated to men's whims and desires, not in the "I hate women" way that he has attempted to portray accusations of sexism in the past. His "jokes" all speak to this feminist concept of white male privilege, which is a really intense and in-depth topic that I won't get into here but would encourage you guys to look up if you are so inclined.

At any rate, what he's saying and the way he's saying it is highly inappropriate if we're going to discuss gaming as a mature community capable of effecting change for the betterment of everyone involved in gaming. It's ignorant, it's hurtful, it's sexist and misogynist and it needs to stop.

Thank god someone else said this, I didn't want to be the feminist talking about internalized male privilege. That is essentially the problem with this entire video. His perspective just reeks of hetero-male privileged. I don't dislike Jim my issue with him is he is really blinded in his approach to this topic. He may have been trying to joke about the subject, but as someone who possesses a vagina I'm insulted by the way he characterizes my sex and totally ignores the dehumanizing effects of objectification.

Hey do you have any links to info about the internalized male privilege thing? it's something that comes up in some of my discussions from time to time, but i could never find the right name for it, and like an article or something on it would be useful.

 

[Cheeesus]

I had hoped to teh escapist gods that the delay in this guys video's meant it was over. I gave it a second chance and I can assure you, I wont watch any more of this dicks video's. maybe if it was column format it would be semi readable, but his mannerisms and tone just make me want to punch him in the face.

I hope you can this shit escapist.

 

[loodmoney]

Hey do you have any links to info about the internalized male privilege thing? it's something that comes up in some of my discussions from time to time, but i could never find the right name for it, and like an article or something on it would be useful.

One of these might be the place to start:
http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/faq-what-is-male-privilege/
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2004/10/feminism-101.html

 

[Ben Hussong]

Hey do you have any links to info about the internalized male privilege thing? it's something that comes up in some of my discussions from time to time, but i could never find the right name for it, and like an article or something on it would be useful.

Not "internalised" specifically, but these might be the place to start:
http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/faq-what-is-male-privilege/
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2004/10/feminism-101.html

Thanks!

 

[swood]

So much hate... so many sticks up so many asses....

I was actually surprised Jim wasn't censored or made to be less vulgar. At least after what happened to the first few movie bob videos, I thought the Escapist would shutdown any vulgarity(audio and visual) that wasn't Yahtzee or the occasional LRR show. It just turns off so many people.

Now, I like the show. I don't mind the cursing or other vulgar bits. I just don't really get the people who are complaining about this show not covering new topics. I don't think any show on the escapist has recently covered a topic that wasn't already beaten into the ground. All of gaming's issues are fairly old(internet time). And seriously, how many times do we get "half naked dudes" as an answer to sexism rather than the obligatory and neutered response "We shouldn't objectify women." I don't think either sex minds being thought of as sexy. As long as the character isn't vapid, who cares how much clothing is being worn?

Jim's style is to be half tongue in cheek, half making a point. Which doesn't seem to resonate with a lot of people here. But I think it's mostly the cursing/penises that skew everyone's opinions, not necessarily the actual content. Keep the show, I like it... might want to slap a NSFW warning on it, though.

The thing is, it really ISN'T tongue in cheek; even if that's what he was going for, it didn't come off that way at all. A lot of what he said in this episode was really, REALLY sexist and it was really NOT OK. And by sexist I mean reinforcing the notion that women are and should be subjugated to men's whims and desires, not in the "I hate women" way that he has attempted to portray accusations of sexism in the past. His "jokes" all speak to this feminist concept of white male privilege, which is a really intense and in-depth topic that I won't get into here but would encourage you guys to look up if you are so inclined.

At any rate, what he's saying and the way he's saying it is highly inappropriate if we're going to discuss gaming as a mature community capable of effecting change for the betterment of everyone involved in gaming. It's ignorant, it's hurtful, it's sexist and misogynist and it needs to stop.

Thank god someone else said this, I didn't want to be the feminist talking about internalized male privilege. That is essentially the problem with this entire video. His perspective just reeks of hetero-male privileged. I don't dislike Jim my issue with him is he is really blinded in his approach to this topic. He may have been trying to joke about the subject, but as someone who possesses a vagina I'm insulted by the way he characterizes my sex and totally ignores the dehumanizing effects of objectification.

Hey do you have any links to info about the internalized male privilege thing? it's something that comes up in some of my discussions from time to time, but i could never find the right name for it, and like an article or something on it would be useful.

Someone else has also posted some really great links but I also think this one is really awesome and gives great practical examples of the issue http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/

 

[i7omahawki]

This really wasn't that bad; maybe you've seen those points before, but I haven't, and I thought it was an intelligent and mildly entertaining little speech.

Heck, half the complaints here seem to be his alleged support of child porn, which was in JEST. Next you're going to lampoon Stephen Colbert for his absurd comments! Whatever happened to satire? I don't care if it was lame satire, because lame satire does not make a person "reprehensible"!

Honestly, most of you need to cool your heads and try to post some genuine criticism.

I think it's more the fact that when dealing with an issue that sensitive, you should think intensely about whether or not your point is either worth it, or communicated well enough to warrant it. Not doing so does indeed make one a jerk or a 'douche', and in some ways reprehensible.

That is the criticism being launched at Jim, and I think it's well deserved.

This is the last time I'll be watching this show, he's a had two vids, and I've watched them both, and both were poorly thought-out swear fests with arguments that lack depth.

It's really not a problem that I disagree completely with him, MovieBob and Yahtzee, even Extra Credits, go against my perceptions sometimes. But at the very least I can see their view, how it was established and why it works for them. This guy may as well spout his point in two sentences, draw a dick on the wall, and throw in the odd swear word while a final fantasy tune plays out the next few minutes.