Jimquisition: Steam Needs Quality Control

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Sticky

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May 14, 2013
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I genuinely do not see what Valve can do to fix this. Should they hire their own internal QA department to individually test these games? If not, should they start filtering games based on some kind of merit system with players?

Because all I see is the double edged sword of an open platform. There have ALWAYS been shitty games on the PC being sold as gold, you don't even have to look far back to find them even before the Steam platform existed. There have always been GAMES being sold as gold, that's where our term 'shovelware' comes from.

We also get into the benefits of an open platform that would be severely damaged if we try to apply a filter to games based on arbitrary boundaries. How can one distinguish in this market between a game such as Garry's Incident and Garry's Mod? Garry's Mod is one of the best selling games on steam, but even I, someone who loves the game with all his heart, will admit that the game is extremely flawed and for a niche audience. During the Gmod 10 days (when the game first started being sold), a crash every hour was to be expected, you could not save your work to a universal system that allowed you to save your contraptions, and typically online multiplayer was a crap-shoot at best. The difference is that Garry's Mod became better eventually, rising on its unique gameplay to the top of the store page, while Garry's Incident will likely never get a patch to make it less than a digital abomination.

If we apply even the smallest barriers of entry to games, we suddenly lose the same indie games that Steam is currently thriving on. How can you pitch a sale of a game like "The Stanley Parable" to a supposed gatekeeper of steam? The two-paragraph elevator pitch on the store page doesn't even begin to do the game justice, nor does it actually describe what kind of enjoyment a player would find in the game. At best it can be described as a walking simulator with the humor of Portal thrown in. Something that dozens of other games already strive for and typically fail at. Stanley Parable would never find a home on a console, or a market, or any place where it had to justify itself to people who don't actually understand games or the enjoyment that comes from playing them. Neither would a lot of games we take for granted as being part of steams backbone.

If you want the indie scene and the small business market to continue to exist on steam, we can't just start drawing lines in the sand to get the games we consider 'bad', finding out if a game is bad before people buy it requires too much inspection from the standpoint of Valve the distributor, so I'm going to need further justification as to why Valve should suddenly change policy because crapware is slipping through the cracks of the rather loose guidelines for release. Unless you admit that Valve should be testing every game that gets onto its platform, then there's really nothing anyone can do. If it comes down to Valve having to perform rigorous QA on each game before release, then expect the storepage to become very, very empty.

EDIT: Also I find it to be very alarmist of you, Jim, to say that quality is 'disappearing entirely' while there are still new good games coming out at a reasonable pace on Steam. While there are still games on Steam that are genuinely worth buying on the front page. While there are still new hits being released on Steam that are not trying to fleece customers, then the skies are in fact not falling.
 

gorfias

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Dormin111 said:
I'm not really seeing the issue here. It's isn't difficult to use reviews both on Steam and elsewhere to judge the quality of a game. For instance, Guise of the Wolf has almost all negative reviews on Steam. The claims that Steam resembles the video game market in the 1980s is ridiculous hyperbole. Steam still sells nearly all of the big mainstream PC games, and is the number one source of surprise indie games. This whole episode is a non-issue.

Also, presumably it would be monumentally time consuming for Steam to play through every game offered to their library.
Add to that, Steam has metacritic scores posted with its games. It is online. I can go to gamerankings or gamefaqs or watch a video review and trailer at youtube.

But if I go to gamestop, it is not as easy to check to see if a game I'm thinking of buying is any good. (Though, 4g cell phones help fix that.)
 

CogDiss

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Be your own quality control, do your own research before making a purchase. You'll make a few mistakes but then you quickly learn how do spot crappy games from good ones. Having to many choices is a first world problem if I ever heard of one.
 

Karadalis

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Wasnt steam greenlight made to decide what games to get onto steam... not.. concepts of games? As in.. you needed a finished product thats reviewable before you can even apply?

Would make alot more sense... right now its some weird form of system that allows you to pitch an awesome sounding idea wich people will vote for.. and then deliver some cobbled together piece of trash on early access with the promise of it getting better and laugh all the way to the bank.

So in short Steam greenlight has mutated from a good idea to an easaly exploted scam machine...

Oh and if steam continues this they will pay the same price nintendo currently does for shamelessly whoring out their system to shovel ware upon shovel ware.
 

Lightknight

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Nov 26, 2008
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Thanatos2k said:
Does it matter if a murderer does community service on the weekends? This is not "typical corporate shenanigans" this is criminal and screwed their employees out of perhaps hundreds of millions of dollars. I hear Bernie Madoff was a great father, by the way.
Right, allegations of unfair labor agreements equals murder. Glad we had an intellectual discussion on the matter.

I'm not sure this is off topic, given many seem to be trying to cover for a company like Valve's failings with "But they do such great things elsewhere!" Look at how you even defend Google like they were the victim here! Unbelievable.
Apple literally bullied them into this. The same link you sent has direct quotes of Steve Jobs himself threatening war against them if they so much as looked at Apple employees with desire. The bigger question is how you aren't seeing their actions as coerced? This is 2005 when this happened.

If you actually read the article you'd know that George Lucas' version of these policies weren't evil at all because he didn't get or force any agreements with others, he just put those policies in place at his own company because he felt it was a waste of time and money. That's not illegal or immoral. Companies like Apple and Google (and more) took it to the next level where it became evil.
Huh? Evil is murderer. Evil is not an ambiguous labor agreement that didn't even result in lower wages for employees at Google. Sorry, but this "google is evil" bit is just shenanigans and pulling at straws. Maybe if you find something that actually results in public harm then we can begin to say that they did something that was wrong. But that's a far stretch from getting to the they're evil master criminals bent on world corruption and puppy murder. Huge leap there. Few companies succeed in doing nothing illegal just like few people do. There's so many laws.
Loki_The_Good said:
Lightknight said:
They do allow searching by genres but I don't see any advanced search function that would allow filtering out some results. I'd certainly like to drop some early access games in some of my searches. That'd be nice.
Yeah I know they have some genre's but only the really broad strokes. I kind of meant more specific ones like rogue-light, Jrpg, Western rpg, FPS, platformer, puzzle, 2D, 2.5D, 3D ... just a more specific advanced search engine maybe even tie it into the reviews (though that's dangerous if metacritc has shown us anything) or how many people own the game if it's multiplayer. Useful data like that.
Sure, why not? Shouldn't be that hard to set up since they already have it in place.
 

Deadagent

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Welcome to PC Gaming. The only quality control here, is the word of mouth and reviews. Trust em as you would trust the weather report. This is how it has always been, It's the fundamental tradeoff of an open platform. Either learn to live with it or go back to consoles, I really dont care wich.
 

88chaz88

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LordLundar said:
All I heard was "Steam needs to, Steam needs to". I did not hear the same demands toward Gamestop (both physical store and digital), Best Buy, Gamefly, etc. In fact, the only mention of another store was GoG who does filter (and even then they have made mistakes) and that's mainly because because their primary market is classic games modified by them so they HAVE to issue that promise.

So I ask again: where's the demand for other stores to require quality control at the level you're demanding of Steam?
I wouldn't know about Gamestop but when I buy a game from the aptly named GAME chain over here, I can be fairly sure it's at least fit for purpose, at least barring a few notable exceptions. I doubt this is because they have much in the way of quality control, but more due to it being mainly a download distribution problem. Many publishers that bother to spend their money to box games will usually test it out a little bit before wasting their cash.

As for other digital distribution outlets, Steam may not be the worst for this but it's certainly the most visable one doing this. GoG, Gamersgate, and even Origin all seem to have better quality assurance and/or refund scheme if something's not fit for purpose. And they certainly don't allow games on their platforms just because the community liked the idea.
 

captain underpants

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Jun 8, 2010
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It really isn't Steam's job. Buyer beware and all that. Shonky developers are going to game the system whatever Valve does. They'll just end up endlessly chasing their own tail.

However what they do really, really, seriously need is a decent refund system to allow customers some recourse when they do buy a game that doesn't meet expectations, even if it's just store credit as commonly practiced in brick and mortar stores.

Customer support in general on Steam is pretty appalling, actually. I know I always experience a general sense of hopelessness whenever I have to try and contact them. Even if you do get a response from someone other than a robot, it's usually unsatisfactory. I say fix that before even thinking about any kind of censorship/'quality control' on the service.
 

DirkDeadeye

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Mar 18, 2013
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Games on steam used to mean they weren't total crap. They worked, and they deserve a place in the market. You knew..for the most part it'd be a solid game worth your time and money.

That's a great place for people to go. Like a craft beer store that isn't full of stupid fuckin' pseudo belgian beers, and shit like shock top.

Now, I'm sketchy. Now I have to look things up, there are so many games very deserving of my attention and cash buried under tons of shitty shovelware that..I honestly quit buying games there. Unless I hear from multiple sources, the bros on my teamspeak, or the youtube bros I talk to..I'm not going in there. It's like browsing through a shitty flea market..I might make it out with something halfway decent..when I embarked on a quest to find something really good.

Yeah, fuckin' A steam doesn't have to QC the games on their store. They don't have to steward them either. But you can't possibly disagree that a steam that isn't full of shitty shovelware, and broken games would be a bad thing, right? RIGHT? Come on people, I know how to google. But also know what it was to have a hard decision of a lot of good, quality games..versus a lot of games that might make me feel regret.
 

Mangue Surfer

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CogDiss said:
Be your own quality control, do your own research before making a purchase. You'll make a few mistakes but then you quickly learn how do spot crappy games from good ones. Having to many choices is a first world problem if I ever heard of one.
This! Is the quality control of life. Everyone should try for themselves.
 

iniudan

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If what Gabe said in a previous conference, Steam is planning user controlled store to replace Greenlight. So would be able to have something like the Sterling, TB or AngryJoe Steam Store, etc. Would be a good way to have curated store, has you basically just subscribe to store that you trust the selection.

Here the conference where Gabe mentioned that possibility. Sorry for lack of accurate time, where it is mentioned.
 

Callate

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I'd actually rather that Greenlight stay. I think we benefit from a low-overhead, high-visibility place where indie games that don't have big publisher support can get a viewing, and I think the underlying idea is a good one.

But much as Jim says about the rest of Steam, it could definitely use some reform. In the case of Greenlight, more transparency and some sense of community moderation would be a big help. It remains obscure to me how the umpteenth version of Dragon's Lair made it through Greenlight (or why it went through Greenlight in the first place), and I get very tired of seeing games get "voted down" because some other reviewer who voted up managed to piss someone off.
 

major_chaos

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LordLundar said:
So I ask again: where's the demand for other stores to require quality control at the level you're demanding of Steam?
Retail stores have a certain amount of built in quality control in the form of the investment needed to have a physical release, something that all this 0 effort no name trash like Rekoil and Revelations can't pull off.
EDIT: Also refunds. If I buy a shitty game at Gamestop I can simply return it and buy something else. Steam on the other hand has a crippling fear of giving you your money back for any reason, even if the game you bought literally does not work.
 

Vigormortis

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matrix3509 said:
I honestly have no sympathy. This is what was bound to happen after all the fucktards starting screaming for there being no barrier to entry for getting onto Steam. When there is no barrier to entry, the amount of putrid excrement you have to wade through just to find something worth looking at increases exponentially. This is what people were screaming for, stop being a ***** and suck it up.
If it weren't for the "fiascoes" over the past few years about the "barrier to entry" on Steam, I'd wholeheartedly agree with Jim in this instance. However, I'm more inline with your view.

This is what most of you asked for. Many of you claimed a game's success was predicated on whether it released on Steam or not and that, therefore, Steam should allow more games in. Now own up to the realization that this was a bad fucking idea.

That said, I do agree that Valve needs to reinstate quality assurance measures[footnote]Note the emphasis on reinstate.[/footnote]. However, that still won't address the real core of the issue. Namely: the developers and the consumers. Or rather, sleazy and/or lazy business practices of the devs and publishers, and the lack of rational restraint amongst the consumers.

Do your bloody homework, people. You impulse buy a candy bar, not a 40+ dollar media product.

If you buy a game and it turns out to be bad, especially if you pre-purchase or buy early access, then the consequences are squarely on your shoulders. Let the experience be a lesson to be more careful with future purchases.

Buyer beware.
 

seditary

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One of your worst videos in my opinion Jim.

Steam needs a robust returns/refund system and that's it.

Valve is not some parent to make my decisions for me.