Jimquisition: The Adblock Episode

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Lovesfool

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I am a marketeer. I work as a marketing manager (that is the head of the marketing department) in a big company. And I mean a company that sells real products, to real people. Actually, it is exactly the kind of products people that frequent websites like The Escapist are precisely the target audience for.

Advertising is one of the tools in my trade and I have been doing this job for a bit over a decade.

And yet, I use AdBlock.

This is going to be a long post, so I offer the disclaimer above to justify it and to allow you an inside on my perspective. I totally agree with what Jim Sterling is trying to get across. The Escapist is a product of the work of real people, using real infrastructure, which requires real money to continue to exist. This money primarily comes from advertising, as is usually the case with Media. They should draw revenue from advertising and AdBlock cripples that ability. I also agree that it is the advertisers' fault, for ruining it for everyone (including themselves) and forcing us to seek out services like AdBlock. It is that exact abuse that has led even me, someone who does this for a living and should be keen in observing any form of advertising, to use AdBlock. Because, it isn't really advertising any more. It is spam.

If I may offer a slightly different view, though, it's not just the fault of the advertisers and the "shady" companies they represent, that spam us with F2P online games, penis enlargement products, quick-6pack abs programs or lotteries that notify us we are the Xth visitor and just won an iPhone/iPad/Bugatti Veyron/Whatever. The Escapist (or any other website) is also to blame. What has The Escapist done to prevent this situation, to prevent the circumstances that have led us to install AdBlock on our browsers?

Take an example from other Media. Look at what TV is doing, or even the now-dead print Media. Just like with the internet, advertising in those more "traditional" Media has always been a stock exchange. Price is driven by demand and since air-time or space is finite, the highest bidder gets the advertising spot, or gets the space in page 3, instead of page 53. But, that's not all. They also protect their own product. No matter how much money a "shady" company "selling" a trick method for killer abs with no physical exercise is willing to pay, even if there is no other demand for the space or air-time, they will NEVER be allowed to advertise on prime time. You will NEVER find out you have a chance to win 1 million dollars just by participating on a simple survey through a Super Bowl commercial, or via the back page of The Guardian, or New York Times, or Elle Magazine. The more "traditional" Media have long ago taken action to protect their product and to safeguard the attractiveness of their advertising space, regardless of whether there is constant demand any single given time. For example, someone like Time Magazine would rather have no advertisement at all on page 2 for a given month, even if it has a lucrative offer from a "shady" or simply unimportant product, simply to protect its image and remain attractive for the BMWs and P&Gs of the world, so that they may return next month and buy that space. If they were to advertise "you won an iPhone" on page 2, then the BMWs and P&Gs would soon loose interest in the advertising space altogether.

Which is what is happening to the internet right now. The way it's built, spam almost inevitably get's bumped on top, especially if the ad is not run directly in cooperation with the specific website, but via advertising agencies like Google Ads and the sort. To make things worse, there are still performance issues with ads, frequently bogging down the load speed of a web page, even when it is a "proper" ad, directly served to the specific website. The only reasonable and practical reaction The Escapist and any other online Media outlet can have to tackle the problem of AdBlock is to address the problem at its root and find ways to deny and block the spammers from its website. It needs to better control what gets advertised through their URL, in order to protect its own brand and negate the need for AdBlock. You wouldn't include an ad for Viagra as an imbedded, pre-roll prelude to a Jimquisition, or a Big Picture, or a Zero Punctuation episode. Why do you allow it to sneak into your webpages via Google Ads?

Otherwise, all that is left to advertise are the spammers, since the "proper" companies will lose interest in the Medium and the AdBlock will continue to rise.

P.S. As a response to Sterling's heart felt, honest, justified and properly delivered plea, I for one have just added an exception to AdBlock as far as The Escapist in concerned. However, I'm afraid I won't be able to keep this exception for long if it drags down page loading times or if I'm bombarded with spam and smiley faces?
 

BunnyKillBot

Fragged by Bunny
Oct 23, 2010
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I cannot comprehend why you don't push the pub club membership in this video as an alternative to adblock. Its not that expensive, it rewards the producers and it strips out the ads. Win win!
 

Khymerion

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Apr 10, 2012
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I have been sorely tempted more and more to re-activate adblock on this site because some of the auto-playing ads that the site has in the corner of the page sometimes actually seem to crash and take flash with it when it does. I'll be in the midst of listening to something on youtube or another streaming site while reading articles on the site and then suddenly, everything locks up and crashes. I tried to listen Jim, I tried to keep the adverts visible but bloody hell, figure out a way to control your advertisers. If they keep ruining my experience in doing other things while browsing the page because they can't code something properly, then I will be forced to re-activate it.
 

LoLife

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Dec 7, 2012
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Just white listed Escapist & Destructoid sorry I didn't realized I was my hurting my favorite sites I mainly use AdBlock so I didn't have to put up with those pre-roll ad's which you can thank GameTrailers for since it started the trend.
 

Narric Techna

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I find ads to be more of an issue when I'm on YouTube, and its from two different reasons.
The first being that everybody and their cat can put ads on their videos, regardless of whether the content is orignally by them or not. This devalues the content itself, and infact wastes my own internet allowance for viewing the content I want.
The second issue I have is due to the declining quality of the ads themselves, with the same ad constantly being used for videos that don't even relate to the ad itself.

Another issue with some ads in on sites like DeviantART, where ads are on every single page, and a goodnumber of them are the noisy auto-playing kind.

I wholey admit I used to Ad-block without care, for I used to not know how the sytem worked. Numerous videos similar to this have enlightened me, and I often just ignore the ads and wait for the content.

I personally hate ads that autoplay entire videos, or infact have constant noise coming from them like that "Hello!" smiley ad. Just trying to comment here, whilst watching/listening to a second Jimquisition video was annoying due to an ad on this tab insisting on playing with volume, despite my repeated attempts to mute it.

One thing I'd be concerned about if/when I have original content enough to use ads as a tricling source of income, is that I'd want to decide which ads ran on my pages. I don't want some non-related garbage playing. If the decision on what ads are used is not up to me, then I would not use the ad service.
 

MeChaNiZ3D

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Aug 30, 2011
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Well I was going to post something more relevant but the very first poster was warned and they seemed like a reasonable chap, so instead I'll just say that that was a very understanding response and that the people in question should be ashamed of themselves.
 

O maestre

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Nov 19, 2008
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BunnyKillBot said:
I cannot comprehend why you don't push the pub club membership in this video as an alternative to adblock. Its not that expensive, it rewards the producers and it strips out the ads. Win win!
the problem with pub club is that you cannot decide which content to support, not everything on the escapist is something id like to support. One of the advantages of the net is that you get to pick and choose your content and likewise pick and choose what to support.


OT: I wish ad content was more varied, I'm tired of seeing the same thing over and over again, if you are going to sell yourselves, might as well sell to everyone. No Ho gets by with tricks on one John, you dig.

there is also some merit in apps that stop sites or ads from tracking you, stuff like Google's ads are especially guilty of this.
 

boltronics

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Nov 13, 2013
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Now here's an interesting topic, as I have some particularly strong feelings about this. I hope I don't upset anyone with what follows - I mean it as constructive criticism, and hope it is found helpful by the Escapist crew.

I think the negative publicity around Escapist blocking AdBlock users is actually how I first heard about the Escapist website! (yes - this looks like the article: http://beta.slashdot.org/story/134516 ). Even though that was years ago, it has left a negative image of Escapist imprinted in my memory from those events which has always stayed with me. This is also one reason why I've never bothered to really participate in the forums or join the community. I'm a RequestPolicy/NoScript/Self-Destructing Cookies/UAControl/AdBlock Plus/HTTPS Everywhere/Smart Referer user, have been for years, given talks on how to use them, etc. so I have had to accept that Escapist might decide to ban my account at any moment.

I really do believe this site would be better in the long run if Escapist simply encouraged people to disable Adblock, and did not take such aggressive action against those who use it. I might personally block ads, but I might also recommend and post links to Escapist - to be viewed by people who likely will not all block ads. Further, Escapist would have a higher chance of monetising a non-paying adblock-using reader in the future, as opposed to someone who was banned and left with a bad experience to whine about.

So that's the main points I wanted to make regarding the social side of the equation. There are many more points (such as the advertisements being distracting, etc. but others have said enough about all of that already and I'm not so concerned about that personally).

However, and even more importantly, there is a technical side to all of this. For instance, I'm running Debian GNU/Linux on an ARM computer. I don't think Adobe ever actually made Flash for GNU/Linux on armhf, so I wouldn't be able to watch most of the adverts even if I wanted to! It's not all good for me though - I have to rely on GreaseMonkey just to get the videos to play or I otherwise can only see messages asking me to install a plugin that simply isn't available. Further, your videos are in MP4. I can't play MP4 in the IceWeasel browser because it's a non-free codec - I have to actually wait a minute for the video file to save, and then open it up in mplayer! There is no Chromium build for armhf in the repositories (and am not sure it would help anyway) so I don't really have many options. So frustrating - if only the Escapist would try as hard as other websites to be cross-platform, by providing alternatives like WebM. Maybe you do provide WebM for Publisher's Club subscribers, but this has not been made clear.

Further, as other people in this thread have pointed out, web-based advertising is a magnet for malware. Unless you've verified all of your ads, there's a chance that your site could be used in compromising somebody's computer. That's not something I'm comfortable risking.

The last technical issue I have with this relates to tracking. If I visit Escapist and look at RequestPolicy, I see the site wants me to pull in content from Facebook, DoubleClick, Google, and a bunch of other domains that I don't know about - but look like they probably want to track me too. I won't stand for that. I'm not a privacy freak, but I have no intention of allowing some corporations like Google and Facebook attempt to secretly track me around the web.

Sometimes, I really want to show support for a website and, despite all of my objections and concerns mentioned so far, will actually switch Adblock off for a particular site. However, since many ads are pulled in from domains that wish to track me (which I have blacklisted), the adverts are still cut off by RequestPolicy anyway. This doesn't seem to be a problem for all websites with advertising, but I think it is an issue on the Escapist website.

Anyway... despite all of the social and technical problems with advertising above, I have been able to watch the videos (despite needing to jump through a few hurdles) and have been doing so for a while now - and you've really convinced me that I should start showing some support your way - especially if Escapist is going to relax its anti-AdBlock stance a little. Just getting the discussion happening here is a very positive sign. I now intend to join the Publisher's Club later in the month when I've got some spare cash.

If only Escapist would allow me to show my support by purchasing a subscription with Bitcoin! It would make donating much easier. :) Thanks Jim and crew.
 

Grimrider6

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Aug 27, 2008
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It may have been mentioned somewhere in the past 20 pages, but there are reasons to use NoScript and ad-blockers beyond just "ads are annoying". Internet ads and the tracking cookies they use to follow you around the internet are exactly the sort of thing that gives privacy-conscious internet users like me facial tics. Add the ongoing weekly NSA revelations horror show to the mix (plus Google's general complicity in assisting NSA tracking), and I'm in a situation where even white-listing sites I like isn't an option.

People can tell me I'm being a paranoid loon, or that my internet traffic isn't worth the NSA's time, but that's not the point to me. I want to protect my privacy online, and that's that, not up for argument. It just sucks because I also want to support Jimquisition in some way.

If there's a donation account (PayPal if necessary, Bitcoin or other cryptocurrency where possible), I'd be happy to tip Jim every time I enjoy an episode. It's certainly the least I can do, and especially since he's so gracious to actually /ask/ instead of threaten or emotionally blackmail his audience. It's just that the constant unblinking eye of various corporations and government agencies makes me too uncomfortable to allow them any purchase.

inb4tinfoilhat
 

go-10

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Feb 3, 2010
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well thanks to this video I now know that adblock exist and what it does, still won't use it. The main reason I watch videos is because I like the people that upload them and I have absolutely 0 problem with them making some money by using ads, hell I've even found some pretty cool products thanks to ads so yeah keep at it I'm all for them


that aside, Jim you need to post pictures of your Alien collection I don't want to send you something you already have, like an alien version of Jonathan Holmes with a Predator mouth or some shit like that
 

Cerebrawl

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Grimrider6 said:
It may have been mentioned somewhere in the past 20 pages, but there are reasons to use NoScript and ad-blockers beyond just "ads are annoying". Internet ads and the tracking cookies they use to follow you around the internet are exactly the sort of thing that gives privacy-conscious internet users like me facial tics. Add the ongoing weekly NSA revelations horror show to the mix (plus Google's general complicity in assisting NSA tracking), and I'm in a situation where even white-listing sites I like isn't an option.

People can tell me I'm being a paranoid loon, or that my internet traffic isn't worth the NSA's time, but that's not the point to me. I want to protect my privacy online, and that's that, not up for argument. It just sucks because I also want to support Jimquisition in some way.

If there's a donation account (PayPal if necessary, Bitcoin or other cryptocurrency where possible), I'd be happy to tip Jim every time I enjoy an episode. It's certainly the least I can do, and especially since he's so gracious to actually /ask/ instead of threaten or emotionally blackmail his audience. It's just that the constant unblinking eye of various corporations and government agencies makes me too uncomfortable to allow them any purchase.

inb4tinfoilhat
As someone with similar feelings, though not quite so close to tinfoiling(I'm more worried about where all the unscrupulous businesses is selling my information, and worried about malware/virus security holes, because cleaning a computer once infected is a major timewaste and hassle), I just got a pub club membership, $20/year isn't bad. Payed with Palpal.

I'll even add that doubleclick distributes malware and their ads are on the escapist and we've seen in this thread people complain about getting malware from escapist... so yeah.
 

Uhura

This ain't no hula!
Aug 30, 2012
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boltronics said:
I think the negative publicity around Escapist blocking AdBlock users is actually how I first heard about the Escapist website! (yes - this looks like the article: http://beta.slashdot.org/story/134516 ). Even though that was years ago, it has left a negative image of Escapist imprinted in my memory from those events which has always stayed with me. This is also one reason why I've never bothered to really participate in the forums or join the community. I'm a RequestPolicy/NoScript/Self-Destructing Cookies/UAControl/AdBlock Plus/HTTPS Everywhere/Smart Referer user, have been for years, given talks on how to use them, etc. so I have had to accept that Escapist might decide to ban my account at any moment.

I really do believe this site would be better in the long run if Escapist simply encouraged people to disable Adblock, and did not take such aggressive action against those who use it. I might personally block ads, but I might also recommend and post links to Escapist - to be viewed by people who likely will not all block ads. Further, Escapist would have a higher chance of monetising a non-paying adblock-using reader in the future, as opposed to someone who was banned and left with a bad experience to whine about.
Escapist doesn't ban users who use AdBlock. They hand out warnings for people who talk about AdBlock on the forums (obviously you can talk about in this thread, but it's a topic that should be otherwise avoided) and you can get 7 warnings before you get banned. They also don't block people who use AdBlock and they don't try to hunt down people who use it. So the rules are not that strict anymore (and according to your link, many of the bans the article mentions were later reversed... so that doesn't sound that strict either).

OT: Yeah, I don't mind watching ads to support the content creators. I also don't get most of the intrusive ads people have mentioned in this thread (probably due to my location) so I guess that's why it's easier to avoid that temptation.
 

Grimrider6

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Cerebrawl said:
I just got a pub club membership, $20/year isn't bad. Payed with Palpal.
I would, and I'm considering doing so right now really, just wish I could pay direct to the content producers I like without having to give to everybody. There's a few on the Escapist I'm not mega fond of... but I suppose I could get over that. Still wish there was a Bitcoin option, but I can understand why there isn't.
 

KisaiTenshi

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Mar 6, 2014
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Look this all comes back to "don't be an entitled jerk", nobody has presented a reasonable excuse for interfering with the content. The site has a premium subscription mode, use it.

I work for another site that does content creation, the opinion is we can break the blocking software with paywalls or break it by using the blocking software against it's users. Nobody really wants the negative PR for doing the latter.
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
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Kross said:
It's something I believe in my heart. If we all hope together, maybe one day your posts will have something we can aspire to as well.
What's that supposed to mean? Sounds like you an attempted insult to me - something that's against the rules of the forum.

Again, you are avoiding the question. Why are you speaking on behalf of the company about business operations? Who gave you the authority to do so? Maybe the people in charge of business strategy have different ideas about what works than you do? After all, many companies have made a lot of money by taking unconventional approaches to the market, and I assume given your role that you aren't privy to the company's future business strategies.

So, while you've done all this opining on areas well outside your professional responsibility, we still don't have any answers as to who is responsible for deciding on the forum rules and exceptions for this thread. Even the amendment on the first post is signed with an anonymous "Mods" as the author.

Maybe models like merchandise, and subscription would be a lot more successful if you built some trust with your audience and developed a community, instead of a Stockholm syndrome?
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
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Zipa said:
One thing I am curious about is why the Escapist doesn't seem to advertise the Pubclub as much as it probably should.
Indeed.

The comments from the staff here seem to indicate that they think it doesn't work - so they've already doomed it to failure in a self-fulfilling prophesy. Of course it's not going to work if you never mention it. Just look at how many people in this thread were never even aware of its benefits. It's equally baffling why this wasn't Jim's #1 point in this video, rather than a throwaway aside.

I mean, really, can anyone explain to me why the Pub Club has been so ignored and neglected by the site?
 

faefrost

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Jun 2, 2010
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It's an interesting and surprisingly reasonable discussion on this thread. I would hope that the Escapists staff and management are reading it and taking it to heart as much as the Escapists user base is taking Jim's video to heart. There is some important feedback going on here.

1. We want to support the sites and content providers we love. We really do.
2. We are not against advertising. We are however against uncontrolled, un verified, invasive advertising. Things that pose deep legitimate threats to us. As much as we want to support You. Opening wide the doorways to let whoever is paying your advertising providers pimp to have their way with us is really not on the agenda. And is something that you realistically have no business asking of us.

For advertising to work in a safe manner it needs to be controlled and vetted.
- you must know 100% what is being passed through your site. Every script. Every line of code. Each and every ad. No exceptions.
- it must be non invasive. Ads must remain within static predetermined framing. They may not control local PC functions such as sound. Where there is an active component it must require an overt and deliberate act to trigger. No mouse over. No pop ups. No parasitic things that require activity to close.
- the content of the ads must be policed. They must be reasonably friendly for a broad general audience. If they would not pass FCC guidelines for broadcast they don't belong in our face here. This is a real serious big name web site. Don't pimp penis pills to me.
- the ads must be specific to the site not the user. No feedback loops either providing info about me or feeding ads based on who it thinks I am.
- embedded video ads must be of reasonably short length and of a stable consistent audio volume.
- ad scripts and flash must work 100%. Browser crashes from ads are inexcusable.

In other words you need to own your advertising. You need to approve things before they show up on the site. You need to leverage the size of your user base to your best advantage. Your marketing department needs to be managing advertising. Not simply selling ad space to third parties. If this is not feasibly possible given the realities of Internet advertising, then you need to really push pub club and other similar ways for us to support what we love without subjecting ourselves to the Wild West of malware that is advertising.
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
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KisaiTenshi said:
Look this all comes back to "don't be an entitled jerk", nobody has presented a reasonable excuse for interfering with the content.
Except for the dozens of people who have done exactly that in this thread.

Like the fact that ads often contain malware and privacy-invading tracking mechanisms. And that the ads can crash your browser, or interfere with the viewing of content. And that they are frequently damn obtrusive.

And why does anybody need an "excuse" for doing it in the first place? Receiving data in the way that you want it is foundational to the concept and engineering of the internet. That's what enables blind people to have websites read out to them by a speech synthesizer, or allows websites to be reformatted to different sized screens and devices.
 

Zulnam

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Feb 22, 2010
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faefrost said:
For advertising to work in a safe manner it needs to be controlled and vetted.
- you must know 100% what is being passed through your site. Every script. Every line of code. Each and every ad. No exceptions.
- it must be non invasive. Ads must remain within static predetermined framing. They may not control local PC functions such as sound. Where there is an active component it must require an overt and deliberate act to trigger. No mouse over. No pop ups. No parasitic things that require activity to close.
- the content of the ads must be policed. They must be reasonably friendly for a broad general audience. If they would not pass FCC guidelines for broadcast they don't belong in our face here. This is a real serious big name web site. Don't pimp penis pills to me.
- the ads must be specific to the site not the user. No feedback loops either providing info about me or feeding ads based on who it thinks I am.
- embedded video ads must be of reasonably short length and of a stable consistent audio volume.
- ad scripts and flash must work 100%. Browser crashes from ads are inexcusable.

In other words you need to own your advertising. You need to approve things before they show up on the site. You need to leverage the size of your user base to your best advantage. Your marketing department needs to be managing advertising. Not simply selling ad space to third parties.
I agree with everything you said. Many sites complain about adblock use without actually managing their adds or managing them so that they're more intrusive than they should be.

Do this as an experiment. Make a big article saying that you will manage ads on the site for two months, in hopes of lowering the number of people using adblock software. Write, in a clear, precise, manner exactly what will change, what you will do, what you hope the users do and how they should do it (technical steps (links) to whitelisting a site).

If you want me to disable the my adblocker in this malware-infested world, you better put a little effort into it.

Kudos Jim; I'll start allowing your episodes to show ads as I view them. Just you, though. Yahtzee has enough money.