But the question is, is that actually true, or is it that the industry THINKS we're an audience of homophobic, neckbearded manchildren?Daystar Clarion said:
Jimquisition: The Creepy Cull of Female Protagonists
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
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No, THIS Samus:mjc0961 said:You mean the Samus with tig ol' bitties and a nice shapely ass who goes around wearing a skin-tight blue outfit? The one who you get to see in a bikini or other skimpy clothing if you play the games well enough?cyvaris said:
Yeah, the only way you could have picked a worse example of non-sexy female protagonists is if you'd picked Lara Croft.
The kickass one from Metroid Prime. The one that never strips out of her suit at all. The one whose breast size in the other Prime games was barely a B-cup, whose butt was NEVER focused on (screw you, Other M), whose only instance of even wearing the Zero Suit in Prime 3 was during a moment of mourning for dead allies (what a turn on...), the one who was so dominantly defined by her awesome abilities, wicked cool suits (anyone who says they prefer Zero Suit over MP2's Light Suit is a liar or a fool), the one who was quite reserved for a female lead and was admired and respected by the creators of the game and the characters within the game universe itself.
Yoshio Sakamoto may have lost his mind and went full George-Lucas-prequel-mode on us with his "vision" for Samus in his latest games, but it's a disservice to Metroid Prime for getting it so very right nearly 15 years ago. It created a great game with a great character that kept ALL of her dignity the entire way through, empowering both her and the player and making it one of the greatest gaming experiences ever made.
The stupid big-chested bimbo Samus in the friggin' high heels and the wedges in her butt crack tripping over herself in Other M is NOT the same character.
Oh, it's from that game, all I've seen is one little trailer, thanks for letting me know. I hadn't seen any game play footage before today.Dr. Doomsduck said:
I'm glad someone pointed that out, I was going to. However, one isn't enough to fully counter argue. However it's a start, and more of these covers etc would be great. I'm not to far into the campaign at the moment, but I am really liking it thus far.Bad Jim said:
Well, looks like I have some games to go buy. Remember Me and Last of Us managed to completely slip by me. I'm not sure about Bioshock Infinite though, as I didn't really enjoy Bioshock 1. Maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance.
This kind of behaviour in the industry is disgraceful. I thought we were better than this, but clearly the industry doesn't agree. I hate people some times...
This kind of behaviour in the industry is disgraceful. I thought we were better than this, but clearly the industry doesn't agree. I hate people some times...
Oh dear, just when i throught sexism was a thing of the past. I really dont get nor support feminism in its mission of turning every female into a hypersensitive *****, but this kind of thing does suck.erttheking said:
I'd like to meet this panel of people who thought that Booker DeWitt would make a better cover than Elizabeth.
I really want to punch each one of them in the fact.
Back to the topic at hand, one of the reasons why I fell in love with Bioshock Infinite when I haven't even played it yet was because the whole plot sounds like a better version of the anime Now and Then, Here and There, especially as to how Elizabeth is in the same predicament as Lalaru and how multiple dimensions are even involved, hell, factions in both titles would even do anything to get their hands on either characters. What makes this better(hence why I said BETTER VERSION) is that instead of a weak ass protagonist like Shu, here we actually have a protagonist that's battle hardened by war and ultimately someone you can control, it's not like the NT;HT where people had to die, women had to be raped and hands had to be bashed in stone just so that the MC of the show can finally man up and confront the ultimate villain of the series. Another reason is that this is by Ken Levine, the man behind two of the best videogames ever made.
Ultimately, Elizabeth is just love, she's a thing of beauty and Jim's review on the whole Bioshock Infinite game where he points out that she actually has a personality makes me want to get this game so badly even more. Hell, She's the closest thing to moe I've ever seen, which surprises me since I never grasped the whole aspect of moe in anime.
I really want to punch each one of them in the fact.
Back to the topic at hand, one of the reasons why I fell in love with Bioshock Infinite when I haven't even played it yet was because the whole plot sounds like a better version of the anime Now and Then, Here and There, especially as to how Elizabeth is in the same predicament as Lalaru and how multiple dimensions are even involved, hell, factions in both titles would even do anything to get their hands on either characters. What makes this better(hence why I said BETTER VERSION) is that instead of a weak ass protagonist like Shu, here we actually have a protagonist that's battle hardened by war and ultimately someone you can control, it's not like the NT;HT where people had to die, women had to be raped and hands had to be bashed in stone just so that the MC of the show can finally man up and confront the ultimate villain of the series. Another reason is that this is by Ken Levine, the man behind two of the best videogames ever made.
Ultimately, Elizabeth is just love, she's a thing of beauty and Jim's review on the whole Bioshock Infinite game where he points out that she actually has a personality makes me want to get this game so badly even more. Hell, She's the closest thing to moe I've ever seen, which surprises me since I never grasped the whole aspect of moe in anime.
OMG !
Oni, FAKK2, No One Lives Forever 1 AND 2, Alice 1 AND 2, Resident Evil and female Shepard are my personal favorite Game (Characters) -
AM I GAY ???????
Oni, FAKK2, No One Lives Forever 1 AND 2, Alice 1 AND 2, Resident Evil and female Shepard are my personal favorite Game (Characters) -
AM I GAY ???????
From what I understand it isn't the "Industry" as a whole that is like this but the marketing dickheads and publishers (not developers). But that's just common of the suits in any industry, frequently seeing themselves as "so far above" or are so detached from the actual work that takes place in the industry they view everything as just numbers on a spreadsheet.
On the flip side we have just seen a staggering number of female protagonists and important characters in AAA game releases suddenly. We've got Kerrigan of Star Craft II, Lara in Tomb Raider and now Elizabeth in Bioshock: Infinite. There is also Last of Us in the works with a very significant female character who is essentially going to follow the same formula as Elizabeth. These female characters have flaws but none of the stereotypical negative feminine flaws that media likes to portray all women as suffering from. They are balanced and fine examples of powerful women ? even Kerrigan.
This article by Jim is just another highlight as to how the suits are so disconnected from the industry they are ?masters? of.
On the flip side we have just seen a staggering number of female protagonists and important characters in AAA game releases suddenly. We've got Kerrigan of Star Craft II, Lara in Tomb Raider and now Elizabeth in Bioshock: Infinite. There is also Last of Us in the works with a very significant female character who is essentially going to follow the same formula as Elizabeth. These female characters have flaws but none of the stereotypical negative feminine flaws that media likes to portray all women as suffering from. They are balanced and fine examples of powerful women ? even Kerrigan.
This article by Jim is just another highlight as to how the suits are so disconnected from the industry they are ?masters? of.
Art imitates life
There's a reason why most of the soldiers in modern FPSs are male; because most of the soldiers in real life are male. As are the overwhelming majority of combatants in every conflict since before recorded history.
Heck, if someone somewhere is doing something dangerous and exciting, they're probably male.
Now if every society on Earth has shared this trait, then I think it's fair to say it has some biological component. Successful societies have thrived just because women weren't willing to dive on enemy swords like men are (which is kinda obvious, a dude can father hundreds of children a year, a woman can mother maybe 1. If survival is an issue, we need more women than men).
Maybe at some point we can overcome this with society, once women start taking dangerous jobs and having adventures like some of our menfolk do, so then the idea of a female protagonist in a dangerous game might seem more reasonable to the gut instincts of the unwashed majority of gamers. Possibly. Eventually. But I'm not holding my breath.
Making women is HARD WORK
Stop making it a no-win for games designers. Female characters face ENORMOUS amounts of scrutiny for every single aspect of their design, compared to their male counterparts. Too much/little sexuality/femininity/violence/sexiness/dialogue/vulnerability/characterisation/etc. It's tedious. It's unfair.
If it wasn't such a minefield of offence, then maybe that'd mean more people would try.
Coercion is almost as bad as censorship
Complaining that you want more female characters in a game is totally fine. You're just saying what you want, after all.
However, saying that there's a moral obligation, and that we're somehow not good people if we don't have gender parity in our games, is not cool.
Games are already awesome for women
Saving anyone from a badguy's castle, princesses included, is actually a nice thing to do, so let's not demonise it unnecessarily.
And if you ever think that the gaming industry isn't doing enough to promote an image of strong capable women, just consider that with the invention of Lara Croft alone, there's been about a 1000% more tomb raiding women in games compared to female tomb raiders in real life. Ditto that (to a greater or lesser degree) for any other typical gaming profession (professional fighter, bounty hunter, soldier, etc). Games are already leading the charge on presenting the genders more equally, our so-called egalitarian society is far far behind.
There's a reason why most of the soldiers in modern FPSs are male; because most of the soldiers in real life are male. As are the overwhelming majority of combatants in every conflict since before recorded history.
Heck, if someone somewhere is doing something dangerous and exciting, they're probably male.
Now if every society on Earth has shared this trait, then I think it's fair to say it has some biological component. Successful societies have thrived just because women weren't willing to dive on enemy swords like men are (which is kinda obvious, a dude can father hundreds of children a year, a woman can mother maybe 1. If survival is an issue, we need more women than men).
Maybe at some point we can overcome this with society, once women start taking dangerous jobs and having adventures like some of our menfolk do, so then the idea of a female protagonist in a dangerous game might seem more reasonable to the gut instincts of the unwashed majority of gamers. Possibly. Eventually. But I'm not holding my breath.
Making women is HARD WORK
Stop making it a no-win for games designers. Female characters face ENORMOUS amounts of scrutiny for every single aspect of their design, compared to their male counterparts. Too much/little sexuality/femininity/violence/sexiness/dialogue/vulnerability/characterisation/etc. It's tedious. It's unfair.
If it wasn't such a minefield of offence, then maybe that'd mean more people would try.
Coercion is almost as bad as censorship
Complaining that you want more female characters in a game is totally fine. You're just saying what you want, after all.
However, saying that there's a moral obligation, and that we're somehow not good people if we don't have gender parity in our games, is not cool.
Games are already awesome for women
Saving anyone from a badguy's castle, princesses included, is actually a nice thing to do, so let's not demonise it unnecessarily.
And if you ever think that the gaming industry isn't doing enough to promote an image of strong capable women, just consider that with the invention of Lara Croft alone, there's been about a 1000% more tomb raiding women in games compared to female tomb raiders in real life. Ditto that (to a greater or lesser degree) for any other typical gaming profession (professional fighter, bounty hunter, soldier, etc). Games are already leading the charge on presenting the genders more equally, our so-called egalitarian society is far far behind.