Jimquisition: The Positive Side of Mass Effect 3's Ending Drama
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
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Ah, but was that before or after you became an official contributor.MiracleOfSound said:Actually I got suspended for 5 days once for attitude on the forumEric the Orange said:
thank you Jim for seeming to go to lengths to not actually spoil the ending, but rather just talk about the controversy. I personally haven't got a chance to play the game, as March just happened to be a really tight month in terms of money and there are no rental places anymore, but it's impossible not to hear whispers about the ending spoiled when the blowback is this massive.
I'm going to ask some questions that I don't intend to get answers for, and even if I do, I won't read them cause I probably won't come back to this thread, as I really don't WANT the answers until I've played the game, but isn't the controversy basically that it's impossible to save earth? Earth is a no win scenario, so get out your pitchforks? That's what i've gleaned while trying hard to avoid actual spoilers.
But wasn't the purpose to stop the Reapers from destroying all life in the GALAXY? Earth was a rallying cry for humanity and the systems alliance, but wasn't the real threat to galactic civilization? The reapers attacked earth first, of course they annihilated it. Anyone who thought that the reapers would just arrive, and float there above the world waiting for Shepard to stop them is just silly.
And just because the game as shipped had an unsatisfactory ending doesn't mean that there won't be some final closure in the form of DLC. In most cases, I'd find that to be abhorrent - adding extra story stuff and finishing the game in DLC, but Mass Effect has precident for doing just that. Mass Effect 2 did it with the Arrival DLC. And in Mass Effect's case, if ME3 truly is the end of the Trilogy, I would hope that that the DLC would actually be substantial in terms of story, going out with a bang and so forth.
So As it stands now, just knowing the basics of the controversy, I'm not too worried about being disappointed. Now if the only endings involve the destruction of the galaxy, and the whole trilogy was just a lolgag, and it never mattered because the reapers win in the end, that would be disappointing. But I doubt that's the case, and they're just crying because the reapers managed to destroy some planets, including the one the main character lived on.
I'm going to ask some questions that I don't intend to get answers for, and even if I do, I won't read them cause I probably won't come back to this thread, as I really don't WANT the answers until I've played the game, but isn't the controversy basically that it's impossible to save earth? Earth is a no win scenario, so get out your pitchforks? That's what i've gleaned while trying hard to avoid actual spoilers.
But wasn't the purpose to stop the Reapers from destroying all life in the GALAXY? Earth was a rallying cry for humanity and the systems alliance, but wasn't the real threat to galactic civilization? The reapers attacked earth first, of course they annihilated it. Anyone who thought that the reapers would just arrive, and float there above the world waiting for Shepard to stop them is just silly.
And just because the game as shipped had an unsatisfactory ending doesn't mean that there won't be some final closure in the form of DLC. In most cases, I'd find that to be abhorrent - adding extra story stuff and finishing the game in DLC, but Mass Effect has precident for doing just that. Mass Effect 2 did it with the Arrival DLC. And in Mass Effect's case, if ME3 truly is the end of the Trilogy, I would hope that that the DLC would actually be substantial in terms of story, going out with a bang and so forth.
So As it stands now, just knowing the basics of the controversy, I'm not too worried about being disappointed. Now if the only endings involve the destruction of the galaxy, and the whole trilogy was just a lolgag, and it never mattered because the reapers win in the end, that would be disappointing. But I doubt that's the case, and they're just crying because the reapers managed to destroy some planets, including the one the main character lived on.
The Michelle Rodriguez of Videogames? That's quite an interesting comparison, Jim.
It's also a very good comparison.
It's also a very good comparison.
http://social.bioware.com/forum/Mass-Effect-3/Mass-Effect-3-Story-and-Campaign-Discussion-Spoilers-Allowed/This-guy-got-the-ending-right--9833130-1.htmlMonkeyPunch said:You know there's an "old school" thing you can do if you don't like a stories outcome. It's called "fan fiction".
I challenge any of the Mass Effect 3 whiners to write some and then have others scrutinise it.
Better yet I challenge all the Mass Effect 3 whiners to agree on one ME3 fan fiction ending outcome. Let's just see how far they get with that
To be honest it'd be an improvement on their time usage and much more productive than making silly and ridiculous groups like the Retake ME thing.
[edit] someone enlighten me: what ending was promised and where?MiracleOfSound said:
(sounds a bit strange off the bat - divulging an ending to a game before it's release...)
Your move Mr. Bond
Edit: Nvm, I assumed you were a fan of ME. The link would mean nothing to you. Sorry!
The devs promised 16 widely diverging endings that would factor what decisions the player made in the storyline across three games. They also said they would not pull a Deus Ex: HR and make the ending a simple a, b, c choice via end-o-matic.
Then they did the exact opposite. The game ignores your choices and gives you 3 endings that are identical save for a palette swap. This is not a joke. Imagine if Bioshock ended the exact same way no matter how many little sisters were harvested. But the water changes color from green to red.
httparkis.deviantart.comartMass-Effect-3-Alternate-Endings-SPOILERS-289902125offset=80#comments
After the sh*t you've posted on DTOID, you, Mr. Sterling, have zero credibility on anything. Too bad, I used to like you.
To clarify, I'm not going for a literature degree, but I know a thing or two because my university requires a whole variety of classes.Enkidu88 said:
As for that bad ending, yeeeeeeahh... now it really makes sense how Jim had that Fable 2 screenshot.
Wow, talk about having the glass half full Jim!
I didn't even consider this. But Yeah, I agree with your point as well!
But then again, I find all fans angry at the ending idiots. Come at me.
I didn't even consider this. But Yeah, I agree with your point as well!
But then again, I find all fans angry at the ending idiots. Come at me.
Beat the game and see. I was one if the first to write off the movement as comprised of hysterical fanboys. But it all changed during those final 10 minutes. At least the memes that come with it are funny.Altorin said:
Here's to you, Marauder Shields.
Good vid, but why did you have to ruin Poison Ivy for me.....sure any fantasies I may have had about her would have probably ended in certain death, but at least it would have been worth it!Jimothy Sterling said:
No, it is not a positive thing, I am afraid.
This videogame has managed to get the same fan rage as Star Wars because it IS Star Wars + Star Trek combined and nothing else. The only way that videogames would trully achieve victory in fan rage is when (for example) Suda51 isn't allowed to make a game as awesome and political as Killer7 or when Legacy of Kain gets a reboot without the guidance of the original writer (Amy Hennings since Soul Reaver 1 and onwards) or when Tim Schafer isn't allowed to make videogames anymore (for whatever reason).
Another example of a well justified fan rage would be the remake to a FPS of Metal Arms: Glitch In The System. Because you know, its not like they are cashing in on a Intellectual Property that was stolen from his creator and DENIED to him.
Now THAT would be something positive, not something as a Star Wars "homage". That its cheating.
This videogame has managed to get the same fan rage as Star Wars because it IS Star Wars + Star Trek combined and nothing else. The only way that videogames would trully achieve victory in fan rage is when (for example) Suda51 isn't allowed to make a game as awesome and political as Killer7 or when Legacy of Kain gets a reboot without the guidance of the original writer (Amy Hennings since Soul Reaver 1 and onwards) or when Tim Schafer isn't allowed to make videogames anymore (for whatever reason).
Another example of a well justified fan rage would be the remake to a FPS of Metal Arms: Glitch In The System. Because you know, its not like they are cashing in on a Intellectual Property that was stolen from his creator and DENIED to him.
Now THAT would be something positive, not something as a Star Wars "homage". That its cheating.
Jim, sometimes your brilliant, and sometimes you manage to start out with a premise so inherantly flawed that it ruins anything you might have to say later. In this case the idea that the outcry over the "Mass Effect 3" ending shows that video games have somehow "arrived" due to the outcry... yet really we've seen all this before with say "Final Fantasy VII". FFVII having been what probably actually showed video games becoming a big deal a long time ago, and doing it much the same way by having an absolutly Sh@t ending. An ending I might mention which lived on in video game infamy for a very long time, until the game eventually received the finale it arguably deserved as a full length animated movie called "Advent Children" which didn't satisfy everyone bit was pretty well received by the fan base.
Like a lot of people who defend the industry and writers, you seem to head into the entire "well, they couldn't make everyone happy" defense, the implication that the problem is with the fans rather than the writers, as the fans would have been upset no matter what is done. That's not really the case however. In general a decent ending that doesn't match the preceptions of fans will generally be accepted, with various people saying "that was okay, but I would have done things differantly" and leaving it at that. The kind of hate you see here comes from an ending that is utter crap and manages to piss off the vast majority of people who experience it.
Pointing a finger at Star Wars is kind of a good example on a few levels. For one "Mass Effect" was stated to be the spiritual successor to a Star Wars game called "Knights Of The Old Republic". For another it shows how a proper, well written, ending can redeem a lot of flaws. The sheer awesome inherant in the final battle in Star Wars which tied up the loose ends and saw the redemption of Darth Vader, caused people to receive the movie well despite mocked elements like say... the Ewoks. By the same token a crap ending really CAN destroy entire series by turning them into downers or leaving the watcher unfulfilled. Who the heck wants to watch 120 hours worth of something only to find out it's all futile, the bad guy wins, and everyone dies horrible, pointless deaths? Endings which aren't endings are the worst of all.
Let me make an analogy I've used before.
Let's say your watching the original Star Wars trilogy and everything is like you'd expect up until the finale. Just as Luke is entering the emperor's chamber the screen whites out. Rather than the end of the story with the redemption of Vader and the destruction of the Death Star, and freedom in the bloody galaxy, we're treated to a 70s esque light swirl of the type usually intended to simulate an acid trip. In the middle of the swirl a rainbow hued cartoon platypus appeals and introduces itself as "Mingo" the embodiment of the force. Mingo proceeds to ramble on about the events of the series so far, the natures of the light and dark side of the force, and what might happen here... but being careful to say that what seems to happen might not actually happen, much like Luke's experiences in the cave on Dagobah... oh and maybe he never left the cave. Then the end credits roll... assuming you manage to sit through them (or are paralyzed in shock) you are treated to a scene of some old astronaut with a hippie name like moonbeam and borderline alzheimers on a nature walk with his grandson, who is begging him for another tale of "The Skywalker".
The thing here Jim is that if George Lucas had ended RoJ that way, there would have been no massive continuation of the franchise in anyone's hands, and he never would have had the oomph to get prequels made so he could screw things up. After all who the heck would want to see a prequel to that?
You can't put crap writing on the fans, and an ending that manages to cheeze almost everyone off is always, always a bad thing.
EA/Bioware ignoring people is not the right thing to do here, it's arrogant stupidity, especially if they want a franchise out of it. They are in a position to make things right, much like what happened when "Farscape" got cancelled on a craptastic cliffhanger and they did a mini-series to finish off the series (Peacekeeper Wars) and not have it end on that note. With all of the money EA/Bioware has made there is absolutly no reason why they can't come up with a proper ending, which will by no means be universally loved by every fanboy, but won't be reviled either. Hating the ME3 ending is one of the few things pretty much the entire ME fanbase can agree on (there are of course exceptions, like there are to everything).
I'll also say that unlike TV series like "Lost", "Mass Effect" costs the people playing it money and thus customer satisfaction is a big deal. If this was a movie, you would have had people storming the ticket booths demanding their money back (it has happened before) which would have been blown right back up the chain by theater owners to the production company. You'll notice EA/Bioware doesn't seem to be in a hurry to buy back all the copies of the Mass Effect trilogy they sold. If they were to say offer everyone $60 per game (up to $180 per person) for the software... since this reflects on the whole thing, you might have a point. Right now you can't viably get your ticket refunded and that in of itself puts this in a position differant from movies, or TV (which costs nothing). Part of the reason why there are campaigns that are so extreme to demand "taking back" the series, that investment not just of time but of money does affect how people think in cases like this.
Like a lot of people who defend the industry and writers, you seem to head into the entire "well, they couldn't make everyone happy" defense, the implication that the problem is with the fans rather than the writers, as the fans would have been upset no matter what is done. That's not really the case however. In general a decent ending that doesn't match the preceptions of fans will generally be accepted, with various people saying "that was okay, but I would have done things differantly" and leaving it at that. The kind of hate you see here comes from an ending that is utter crap and manages to piss off the vast majority of people who experience it.
Pointing a finger at Star Wars is kind of a good example on a few levels. For one "Mass Effect" was stated to be the spiritual successor to a Star Wars game called "Knights Of The Old Republic". For another it shows how a proper, well written, ending can redeem a lot of flaws. The sheer awesome inherant in the final battle in Star Wars which tied up the loose ends and saw the redemption of Darth Vader, caused people to receive the movie well despite mocked elements like say... the Ewoks. By the same token a crap ending really CAN destroy entire series by turning them into downers or leaving the watcher unfulfilled. Who the heck wants to watch 120 hours worth of something only to find out it's all futile, the bad guy wins, and everyone dies horrible, pointless deaths? Endings which aren't endings are the worst of all.
Let me make an analogy I've used before.
Let's say your watching the original Star Wars trilogy and everything is like you'd expect up until the finale. Just as Luke is entering the emperor's chamber the screen whites out. Rather than the end of the story with the redemption of Vader and the destruction of the Death Star, and freedom in the bloody galaxy, we're treated to a 70s esque light swirl of the type usually intended to simulate an acid trip. In the middle of the swirl a rainbow hued cartoon platypus appeals and introduces itself as "Mingo" the embodiment of the force. Mingo proceeds to ramble on about the events of the series so far, the natures of the light and dark side of the force, and what might happen here... but being careful to say that what seems to happen might not actually happen, much like Luke's experiences in the cave on Dagobah... oh and maybe he never left the cave. Then the end credits roll... assuming you manage to sit through them (or are paralyzed in shock) you are treated to a scene of some old astronaut with a hippie name like moonbeam and borderline alzheimers on a nature walk with his grandson, who is begging him for another tale of "The Skywalker".
The thing here Jim is that if George Lucas had ended RoJ that way, there would have been no massive continuation of the franchise in anyone's hands, and he never would have had the oomph to get prequels made so he could screw things up. After all who the heck would want to see a prequel to that?
You can't put crap writing on the fans, and an ending that manages to cheeze almost everyone off is always, always a bad thing.
EA/Bioware ignoring people is not the right thing to do here, it's arrogant stupidity, especially if they want a franchise out of it. They are in a position to make things right, much like what happened when "Farscape" got cancelled on a craptastic cliffhanger and they did a mini-series to finish off the series (Peacekeeper Wars) and not have it end on that note. With all of the money EA/Bioware has made there is absolutly no reason why they can't come up with a proper ending, which will by no means be universally loved by every fanboy, but won't be reviled either. Hating the ME3 ending is one of the few things pretty much the entire ME fanbase can agree on (there are of course exceptions, like there are to everything).
I'll also say that unlike TV series like "Lost", "Mass Effect" costs the people playing it money and thus customer satisfaction is a big deal. If this was a movie, you would have had people storming the ticket booths demanding their money back (it has happened before) which would have been blown right back up the chain by theater owners to the production company. You'll notice EA/Bioware doesn't seem to be in a hurry to buy back all the copies of the Mass Effect trilogy they sold. If they were to say offer everyone $60 per game (up to $180 per person) for the software... since this reflects on the whole thing, you might have a point. Right now you can't viably get your ticket refunded and that in of itself puts this in a position differant from movies, or TV (which costs nothing). Part of the reason why there are campaigns that are so extreme to demand "taking back" the series, that investment not just of time but of money does affect how people think in cases like this.
We're not upset because it didn't end how we wanted it to. We're upset because it didn't end how THEY said it would.
I felt at the barely least it was anti climatic. The biggest issue for several people is they played all three games hoping their decisions would actually mean something in the final battle. I beat it already and started to replay it but you miss some characters completely if you don't see them in time so its not really worth the effort.
**Minor spoiler alert**
People complain is because they just don't understand the ending.
By picking the synthesis option you reveal the true focus of the entire trilogy.
Joker finally gets laid!
It's still the answer to all this controversy....
*
I'm also in the camp waiting for DLC to "fix" my ending, at least for one of my Shepard.... Oh yes I have many, 3 that has been since ME 1 all of them with different choices...
But honestly the ride is worth the empty feeling I had in the end.
Now give me my DLC take my money and start building the next space opera...
People complain is because they just don't understand the ending.
By picking the synthesis option you reveal the true focus of the entire trilogy.
Joker finally gets laid!
It's still the answer to all this controversy....
*
I'm also in the camp waiting for DLC to "fix" my ending, at least for one of my Shepard.... Oh yes I have many, 3 that has been since ME 1 all of them with different choices...
But honestly the ride is worth the empty feeling I had in the end.
Now give me my DLC take my money and start building the next space opera...
Jim, you're full of shit if you're thinking that it's arrogant that the petition for better endings is called "Retake Mass Effect."
The fact that you basically voice the opinion "It's Bioware's work, so their vision is what matters" when they make VIDEO GAMES, which are about satisfying the CUSTOMER...
The fact that you basically voice the opinion "It's Bioware's work, so their vision is what matters" when they make VIDEO GAMES, which are about satisfying the CUSTOMER...
I've watched 2 of your videos Jim.
And I gotta say, lose some weight. Your impending heart attack is right around the corner.
And I gotta say, lose some weight. Your impending heart attack is right around the corner.