Jimquisition: The Positive Side of Mass Effect 3's Ending Drama
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
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Yeah, this is pretty much what I got, too. It seems that Jim is a little too "subtle" for some people to get. Not surprising that people don't seem to get him in this video, though. A lot of people, including myself at first, didn't realize that his "Thank God for me" routine was sort of a parody.I.Muir said:
I think you need to relax, take a deep breath, and thank God for Jim Sterling.aftohsix said:
You're correct to put a positive spin on the fact that we care enough to protest, Jim, but I feel you're being unfair in the way you describe everything else.
I wouldn't say that the fan response to the ending has been unreasonable or childish. It has included a charity drive that has raised over $70,000 for Child's Play so far. Furthermore, the reasoning behind not accepting the ending(s) had nothing to do with a lack of respect for Bioware's artistic integrity. Fans don't deny their right to write their own ending to the story they began. It's not about satisfying demands that we have cooked up in our own minds... It's about being consistent with what they made the series and its central character to be up to the very last moments. Even a twist ending has to share the same universe and be logically consistent with what has happened in the lead-up to it. ME3's ending(s) failed in this regard. The ending(s) did not make sense in terms of the lore of the universe or in terms of Shepard's character.
The narrative flow of the entire game had been leading us to certain conclusions when it came to, for instance, the possibility of cooperation between synthetics and organics. Why introduce a totally new character in the last moments to contradict this? Why have Shepard blandly agree, with no possibility to even protest, even though s/he has been able to protest every single instance of similar arguments from any other character up to this point and has no reason whatsoever to trust this new figure that just appeared? It's not a brave storytelling decision that we can't understand only because we're not making the effort or we're not smart enough. It's terrible writing. It makes no sense. It does not give any satisfaction or closure. Neither do the differently-coloured cutscenes that play out afterwards.
I cannot think of a single reason why Bioware would have found it in any way satisfying to write what they did. (I know I certainly didn't find it satisfying to play.) But if you read their comments about it, it's almost as if they think they wrote an entirely different ending to the one they did. When they talk about what they didn't want to do, they describe exactly what they did. It defies understanding.
As fans, we expected better. Everything prior to the ending was so good, so emotionally powerful, and so well-written that to have that ending conclude it all is impossible to understand.
Given that the current situation with games is that they can continue to evolve post-release (and, in the case of Bioware's games, this has happened a lot in the past few years), I think we have the right to ask for an improvement to be delivered via DLC. I don't believe in "demanding" anything, but I don't think it's unreasonable to ask. That said, before I experienced the ending for myself, I would have thought it to be arrogant even to ask... I had felt hurt by the ending of Dragon Age: Origins, in which my character lost everything she really cared about, but it was superbly written, it made sense in the context of everything that had happened before, and I respected that Bioware had pulled off some stellar writing in making me feel so much pain. I would never have imagined that a time would come when I'd ask them to change an ending they'd written. Now, though, I do understand. Now I think that for Bioware to fail to improve the ending(s) of Mass Effect 3 would be to leave unrepaired some fatal damage to their intellectual property, to their brand identity, and to their trust with fans. It can only benefit everyone for them to admit a mistake was made and to write something better. I know they can. They put so much good material into everything but the ending that they have to be able to do something better.
I wouldn't say that the fan response to the ending has been unreasonable or childish. It has included a charity drive that has raised over $70,000 for Child's Play so far. Furthermore, the reasoning behind not accepting the ending(s) had nothing to do with a lack of respect for Bioware's artistic integrity. Fans don't deny their right to write their own ending to the story they began. It's not about satisfying demands that we have cooked up in our own minds... It's about being consistent with what they made the series and its central character to be up to the very last moments. Even a twist ending has to share the same universe and be logically consistent with what has happened in the lead-up to it. ME3's ending(s) failed in this regard. The ending(s) did not make sense in terms of the lore of the universe or in terms of Shepard's character.
The narrative flow of the entire game had been leading us to certain conclusions when it came to, for instance, the possibility of cooperation between synthetics and organics. Why introduce a totally new character in the last moments to contradict this? Why have Shepard blandly agree, with no possibility to even protest, even though s/he has been able to protest every single instance of similar arguments from any other character up to this point and has no reason whatsoever to trust this new figure that just appeared? It's not a brave storytelling decision that we can't understand only because we're not making the effort or we're not smart enough. It's terrible writing. It makes no sense. It does not give any satisfaction or closure. Neither do the differently-coloured cutscenes that play out afterwards.
I cannot think of a single reason why Bioware would have found it in any way satisfying to write what they did. (I know I certainly didn't find it satisfying to play.) But if you read their comments about it, it's almost as if they think they wrote an entirely different ending to the one they did. When they talk about what they didn't want to do, they describe exactly what they did. It defies understanding.
As fans, we expected better. Everything prior to the ending was so good, so emotionally powerful, and so well-written that to have that ending conclude it all is impossible to understand.
Given that the current situation with games is that they can continue to evolve post-release (and, in the case of Bioware's games, this has happened a lot in the past few years), I think we have the right to ask for an improvement to be delivered via DLC. I don't believe in "demanding" anything, but I don't think it's unreasonable to ask. That said, before I experienced the ending for myself, I would have thought it to be arrogant even to ask... I had felt hurt by the ending of Dragon Age: Origins, in which my character lost everything she really cared about, but it was superbly written, it made sense in the context of everything that had happened before, and I respected that Bioware had pulled off some stellar writing in making me feel so much pain. I would never have imagined that a time would come when I'd ask them to change an ending they'd written. Now, though, I do understand. Now I think that for Bioware to fail to improve the ending(s) of Mass Effect 3 would be to leave unrepaired some fatal damage to their intellectual property, to their brand identity, and to their trust with fans. It can only benefit everyone for them to admit a mistake was made and to write something better. I know they can. They put so much good material into everything but the ending that they have to be able to do something better.
Nope. But demanding Bioware go back and make a new one when Bioware doesn't owe them one, harassing Casey Hudson and Bioware over Twitter, and petitioning for a change in the fiction that they did not have a hand in writing, is representative of self-righteous fanboy douchebags.piscian said:
Dead honest, i'm not mad at the ending. I'm just dissappointed at Bioware. They make this very engaging and fun series with choices as a core mechanic, where most choices in ME could cause consequences in ME3. They made ME3 into an epic adventure; I thoroughly enjoyed it all the way to the start of the ending cinematic. And then I find that the ending is the exact same no matter what you did in the game. They let you choose an ending from a pool of choices with no difference whatsoever, they put this whole epic build-up throughout the whole game and specially during the awesome last mission, and then they just show you that kind of ending. In the end, your choices do not amount to anything, not a single one.
It just reeks of lazy. I still play the game, both single and multi-player, and I love it all the way up to the start of the ending cinematic, but I still just feel disappointed at Bioware.
It just reeks of lazy. I still play the game, both single and multi-player, and I love it all the way up to the start of the ending cinematic, but I still just feel disappointed at Bioware.
Yes, where is that shower clip from really? I'm guessing it's from pre-escapist Jimquisition, but which video?ElPatron said:
Arkham Asylum's ending boss fight wasn't really bad. It was just a generic, boring, and predictable ending. Average, basically. But what made it forgiveable was that right after that they told us everything that happened: Joker and the other villians were locked up, security's put back in place, the titan monsters are fixed, and batman flies off to save somebody else, job well done.
Imagine, if you will, that the game ended right when Joker transforms into his own weird-ass titan thing: Not only has Batman not won, you're left with more questions than answers.
THAT'S what annoys people: that we don't get a definitive ending. DEFINITIVE, not good.
(Also, the Retake Mass Effect movement has raised massive amounts of cash for charity. Sure, protesting the ending of a game ain't saintworthy but they're doing it in the best method possible: by raising tens of thousands for charity)
Imagine, if you will, that the game ended right when Joker transforms into his own weird-ass titan thing: Not only has Batman not won, you're left with more questions than answers.
THAT'S what annoys people: that we don't get a definitive ending. DEFINITIVE, not good.
(Also, the Retake Mass Effect movement has raised massive amounts of cash for charity. Sure, protesting the ending of a game ain't saintworthy but they're doing it in the best method possible: by raising tens of thousands for charity)
So now you're criticizing them because they're raising money for charity that's reaching into thousands upon thousands of dollars. -.- Gonna criticize them for adopting puppies, too?DrVornoff said:
...
That WAS emotional blackmail =P
Joke aside: Nobody's going to listen to the argument's merit because everybody is just assuming 'oh well they're just entitled to their happy ending'. So they're expressing their displeasure in a way that makes it clear they're not just 'entitled, angry whiners' (yes, i have seen that used).
My Shepard doesnt give a shit about some random child, hes the renegade-est Renegade there is!!! If you bother to make sociopath dialogue options for me to use, then why just discard that and make Shepards pathetic emotions drive the entire story. Why would he be having nightmares and visions about something that means absolutely nothing to him? makesnosense.
Thats all ive really been concerned with in regards to Mass Effect 3... i could squeeze a paragraph about how James and the new Ashley's appearance display the lack of customization available to you, and flaunts it in your face. "Look at me, im allowed to look like this and you cant, nah-nah-na-nah-nah... im so pretty
". People were similarly annoyed that you could never play as any of the alien races IIRC, but the fact that the story didnt allow for that made that acceptable.
errr... but yeah, i havent actually played ME3 beyond the demo, hearsay and these forums, so what do i know? ...but i dont think im being irrational there... you cant allow somebody to choose to be evil/nasty/whatever throughout 2 entire games, and then make him CEO of the NSPCC in the next.
Thats all ive really been concerned with in regards to Mass Effect 3... i could squeeze a paragraph about how James and the new Ashley's appearance display the lack of customization available to you, and flaunts it in your face. "Look at me, im allowed to look like this and you cant, nah-nah-na-nah-nah... im so pretty
". People were similarly annoyed that you could never play as any of the alien races IIRC, but the fact that the story didnt allow for that made that acceptable.errr... but yeah, i havent actually played ME3 beyond the demo, hearsay and these forums, so what do i know? ...but i dont think im being irrational there... you cant allow somebody to choose to be evil/nasty/whatever throughout 2 entire games, and then make him CEO of the NSPCC in the next.
You know, I complained about little things in the previous 2 games. Like how I enjoyed the vehicle sections and the shooter mechanics (eg not running out of ammo)in ME1. Or how ME1 could have done with some better terrain generation.
But I never said I'd abandon the franchise over those or even got that upset about them. Also the ending to ME1 was grate, the ending to ME2 was even better so I expected something at least on par in ME3.
I guess what I'm saying is that not everyone who's miffed about the ending is some raving mad fan who wouldn't be satisfied with anything but there exact interpretation.
I also am not going to let the games ending retroactively ruin my enjoyment of the rest of the game. It always annoys me when people get stuck on small crap like that, and it is only the last 10min of a 60-80hr game.
Interesting interpretation of the situation though.
But I never said I'd abandon the franchise over those or even got that upset about them. Also the ending to ME1 was grate, the ending to ME2 was even better so I expected something at least on par in ME3.
I guess what I'm saying is that not everyone who's miffed about the ending is some raving mad fan who wouldn't be satisfied with anything but there exact interpretation.
I also am not going to let the games ending retroactively ruin my enjoyment of the rest of the game. It always annoys me when people get stuck on small crap like that, and it is only the last 10min of a 60-80hr game.
Interesting interpretation of the situation though.