Jimquisition: The Positive Side of Mass Effect 3's Ending Drama

[KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life]

ME3 lost most of that, and had a real lack of polish. Thank god they took extra time to add in multiplayer though!

Um...no, the majority of the people upset loved the game, and believe it was a great game, up until the end. But other than the end most people felt it was an exceptional game.

"...Not even in any way like traditional game endings..." That's a pretty black-and-white statement. The way this quote looks in hindsight is that they were claiming a Kodiak is absolutely nothing like a Polar Bear. The "Flip the ending switch" Ending is almost as traditional as a straight A-B plot in games, especially games with morality bars.

If this was Joe Blow Inc. working out of someone's basement, maybe a lower expectation is appropriate, but not a multi-million dollar team under what must be a multi-billion dollar publisher. When General Patton said they'd never see something coming, you'd be more inclined to believe it as a statement than if Lieutenant Johnson did.

What games did a flip the ending switch other than Deus Ex? Not Bioshock, or Fable or Fallout

Oh bugger. The other two Deus Exes, Singularity, Broken Steel Jade Empire and KotOR all count as well, funny enough. As well as Fallout 1 & 3's core game. Also, did you not play Fable? It happens twice in The Lost Chapters.

And many other games have the variation where it blatantly asks "Would you like to help this woman, or suck her dry in the name of your evil vampiric powers?", like Bioshock or inFamous, a few times over the course of the game (and that scenario is straight out of Darkwatch, another example of both).

I actually like all of the games I listed (other than Invisible War), and don't begrudge them for having this kind of mechanism, but I do begrudge lies, and I do begrudge watching $250 get wasted over the course of 15 minutes.

I meant Deus Ex as a series. I'm fairly certain you don't choose anything in the end of Kotor, it gives you the ending based on your alignment. Never played Jade Empire. None of the others are actually hit a switch, they are all natural extensions of the game. There is a difference between "Flip the ending switch" and having a choice at the end of the game, that is an extension of everything that has happened

No, at the end of KotOR, without spoiling it, you can just bugger your alignment and do the other thing.

The problem isn't that you actually flip a switch/smash a microwave/interact with a device to pick the ending, it's that the examples I give are just binary choices. Nuke the orphans or kiss their cheeks. The only game that I think was improved by this was the Bard's Tale (a freakin' fantastic game, I'll have you know), just because the whole game was taking just as much piss as the ending.

The reason Mass Effect 3 hurt so much more than Singularity or Darkwatch was that there was actual depth to its binary choices, clear narrative and gameplay implications to your actions, and then the ending hit.

 

[4173]

I don't think Lost is the right analogy. I think the Soprano's ending is much more apt.

 

[SickBritKid]

Jim, you're full of shit if you're thinking that it's arrogant that the petition for better endings is called "Retake Mass Effect."

The fact that you basically voice the opinion "It's Bioware's work, so their vision is what matters" when they make VIDEO GAMES, which are about satisfying the CUSTOMER...

As I said in my rather large post (among other, more important things), while it sucks when a TV show blows it's ending, it doesn't actually cost the viewer anything but time, even a universally reviled ending does minimal damage. When a movie comes out that just generally blows chips, customers WILL demand their money back and theaters will return it, assuming that are a large number of complaints (ie a single person complaining about a movie they have already seen will be dismissed). With a video game, you have invested $60 on average per installment of a game, and there is no way to recoup that investment if you wind up being dissatisfied with it. Right now the ending of ME3 is borked enough to really ruin the entire experience up until that point, if that was the end of a movie, people would be justifiably be demanding their money back, and in these numbers they would probably get it. Not so with EA/Bioware.

As I pointed out, I think Jim is overly relying on the belief that no ending will satisfy all fanboys, and that no matter what happens people will complain. With an ending that is at least adequete you might see some fan outcry, but nothing on this level, and even most of those fans will admit that it was okay but they would have preferred things to go differantly. In the case of ME3 this is a situation where the ending is almost universally reviled, rather it's that small but vocal minority (Biodrones) who are defending it, rather than the other way around... and that's a big problem.

Now, if EA doesn't plan to do a differant ending that will make most of the fanbase at least content, which is incidently NOT unprecedented as demonstrated by shows like "Firefly" or perhaps more accuratly "Farscape", it should arguably offer to buy back copies of Mass Effect 3, or perhaps more fairly given the episoding nature of the series, copies of all three games in the trilogy, at full retail price. Much like a movie ticket being refunded after massive outcry over a crap movie. Of course when your looking at a game that will probably see a million returns that is going to cost them 60 to 180 million dollars depending on whether it's the entire trilogy or not, and they aren't liable to do that under any circumstances.

I think Jim happens to be wrong here (ie I agree with you, though perhaps not for entirely the same reasons) but as he said in his video, he seems to be set to ignore any demands he consider changing his opinion... errr the ending, so it's largely irrelevent.

I don't get Jim's whole "well, no ending is gonna satisfy EVERYONE" schtick. We NOT SHIT not every ending's gonna satisfy everyone. That's why Bioware explicitly promised that the ways ME3 would end would be numerous and branching, factoring in your decisions throughout the trilogy as much as your decisions during the final minutes. That way, if you wanted to play your Shepard as a Renegade bastard who would selfishly save his own skin at the expense of the galaxy, you could do that. Or if you were a self-sacrificing Paragon who would ALSO try and save his own skin, that could happen as well.

But instead, Bioware gave us three bags of shit to choose from, but one bag of shit have some chocolates mixed in in the form of Shepard being able to survive...

 

[SickBritKid]

Jim, you're full of shit if you're thinking that it's arrogant that the petition for better endings is called "Retake Mass Effect."

The fact that you basically voice the opinion "It's Bioware's work, so their vision is what matters" when they make VIDEO GAMES, which are about satisfying the CUSTOMER...

I this one of those obnoxious, "The customer is always right!" things? Because no, you really aren't.

...really? The guy/girl who pays a significant amount of THEIR money for a product that is supposed to satisfy THEM isn't right?

So you're telling me that if I purchase Mass Effect 3 expecting a great experience and a satisfying conclusion that I should just take it up the ass?

 

[Kanatatsu]

This video was fucking nonsense.

ME3 fans aren't angry because the game didn't end to their specific tastes. They are mad because 5 years of investment in a franchise was pissed on by a developer more interested in peddling DLC at the end of the game than creating an ending that made sense or in any way validated any of the players choices or struggles.

It was a horseshit conclusion on every level, ruining the franchise, and the "fanboys" are not reacting in a childish way. They're reacting much like Star Wars fans did, true, but THEY HAVE EVERY REASON TO BE UPSET.

 

[Kanatatsu]

They're reacting much like Star Wars fans did, true, but THEY HAVE EVERY REASON TO BE UPSET.

So you're saying that some fans are acting like apes, but it's okay because this time it's different?

And ruin the franchise? Please. If they had fun with everything up until the ending, does the ending magically make that time you spent enjoying it go away? That's part of Jim's point. All this "RUINED FOREVARRR" nonsense is just that: nonsense.

If you didn't like the ending, that's a shame. But don't act like the time you spent having fun is now retconned out of existence because of that. Show a little perspective please. When I am not the most cynical, defeatist pessimist in the room, you really need to take a step back and think about what you're saying and doing.

I'm not saying anyone is acting like an ape, including the vast majority of jilted Star Wars fans.

And yes, I think if unchanged the series is ruined forever, particularly in terms of its future earning potential (which is what Bioware/EA should care about).

I have plenty of perspective, thanks.

 

[Death on Wheels]

The wonderful issue here, that Ole Jimmy boy misses - is the fact not that the fanclub wanted a better ending or some space fuzz or lollies in space, its the point that an Executive Producer promotes this product as if it was going to be the end all and be all - with input by the end user, thus discarding it at the last moment.

Instead we get a great game that at the end turns into a steaming pile of dog turd (thus cheapening the moment, like happytime at the local brothel and you end up with herpes).

Jim you say that we are mad raving Fan kids, all grown up and now wanting a diet of lean protein rich Game Developers who we have somehow devoted our meaning to.
Erm then don't go waving around your fanboy Wooden Chainsword of the 40K variety.
You Ultramarines Fan boy you.

Okay back on topic.
You promote something - you then have to deliver on what you promoted (Duke Nukem delivered its turds), or you get screwed - don't make up the artistic license BS, cos that don't float.
End of Story.

Plus I want my space tank back........

 

[Sofus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H_A7SeawU4&feature=related

P.S.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_H3uWLW3N4&feature=related

 

[SickBritKid]

...really? The guy/girl who pays a significant amount of THEIR money for a product that is supposed to satisfy THEM isn't right?

So you're telling me that if I purchase Mass Effect 3 expecting a great experience and a satisfying conclusion that I should just take it up the ass?

Did I actually say any of that? And what is with this obsession with anal rape? There are other bad things in life that can happen to you. Not every misfortune you befall has a homoerotic subtext. Jesus...

And if you'll get over yourself for five minutes, think about the fact that you are saying that the customer is always right and their demands should be catered to every single fucking time. No. Sometimes the customer is wrong. If you can't articulate yourself about why you are dissatisfied with your purchase without falling back on a bullshit line of reasoning like, "The customer is always right!" then I have no fucking sympathy for you.

If there's a customer uproar on THIS level of outrage and anger, then there's something wrong with your product, no ifs ands or buts. In that case, the customer is definitely always right, as continued dissatisfaction(like, for instance, the BS with TOR and DA2 from Bioware culminating in the ending controversy of ME3) can lead to loss of customer loyalty to your product.

And the anal rape analogy is a pretty common figure of speech, genius...

 

[Kanatatsu]

And yes, I think if unchanged the series is ruined forever,

If you're going to let a bad ending ruin the good times you had, then I have no sympathy for you.

You missed the point.

The series is ruined on a go-forward basis. This has nothing to do with the good times I had--it has to do with EA and Bioware shooting themselves in the foot by eviscerating a lucrative franchise.

 

[Tom Curran]

Hey Jim, you know why I'm happy about the "drama?" I'm happy because, now more than ever, gamers are starting to realize the widespread impotence of gaming journalists like you.

 

[Mebulous]

Really petty but... I miss his old sunglasses. Not that I could ever have a problem with seeing more of his Godlike visage. Jim standing with supreme authority at His lectern with matching flag, suit, tie and glasses made my bowels quake in righteous fear.

Forgive me Jim, for my ignorance of Your Holy ways.

*puts on hairshirt*

 

[mschweiz]

i enjoyed the ending to arkham asylum, i CRIED at the end of lost, it was perfect for me. the ending of mass effect 3 was not. but im starting to wonder, why is the reaction so different between critics and the fans?

 

[Sean Deli]

Oh, Bioware - you got me. You got me emotionally invested in a multi-year spanning franchize just to rub a cheap, rushed, phoned-in conclusion ona epic into my face, teasing "You payed your money already, what will you do now?"

You got me Bioware.
But regarding Dragon Age 3 - I hope you spend hundreds of millions of dollars into making it. Because I can just see people making a line around the block to pay for the priviledge of seeing non-rushed, completely accounting for all the previous decisions and inspired conclusion to THIS epic

Yeah...

 

[nipsen]

...no, it's not really a great accomplishment for gaming when Bioware's bad writing is making them famous. And hailed as great artists in the gaming media in general.

By the way, here are suggestions on subjects for shows you can do the next time:
-A great show with intelligent commentary.
-Something with genuine interest in a subject, any subject.
-An informed criticism of a game.
-Something interesting about a game.
-A commentary that doesn't actively seek to establish every single negative gamer myth.
-A show that doesn't insult people's intelligence.
-Thoughts about what reviews should be like, other than a vehicle to shovel out words and get paid.
-A show that doesn't treat the current gaming media tropes as eternal truth.

...not that I will ever check back to see if you don't make them. But I'm just that helpful anyway.

 

[Urh]

It's like Peter Molyneux was helping BioWare in making and marketing the game.

Fuck me, that actually makes sense. QUICK, SOMEBODY AUDIT BIOWARE'S PAYROLL.