Jimquisition: The Wacky Harassment Blame Parade

[Gilhelmi]

"The sword on my hip weeps at the thought of having to be drawn again. My sword is only drawn in defense, it knows this, but she does not like to fight. I know her pain, for I do not like to fight either. Oh Lord, when will you come? Your children are ragged and tired. But as before, so shall we again, persevere these days. Why do wicked people do evil? Why do the good ones stay silent? Oh Lord, give us strength to overcome these trials and birthing pains."

*An Anonymous Soldier*

I want to say something eloquent, I want to say something meaningful that would change peoples hearts and minds. But all I can think of is one simple question.

WHY?

I honestly do not understand any of this in the least. Be kind to others, Treat your neighbor with respect and love, act online as you would if you were face-to-face.

I liked the anonymity of the Internet, but I think that it is time to let that go.

 

[Deadcyde]

EDIT: turns out i've gotten a few warnings for harsh language. I prefer to be straight forward in my language but I can at least attempt to be more civil.

This whole thing reeks of attention seeking, that the whole saga was planned or at least purposely chased as a reaction.

That being said I won't accept responsibility for people acting immature. -Especially- in the places that are set aside for them to act immature in (the chans). Further more, going down that road is simply asking to have our freedom impuned for the sake of silencing a minority.

Lastly I think this whole thing takes away from actual sexual harrassment (put a female friend on your mic next time you play CS, listen to the crap she cops simply for speaking). Not just this "encouraged harrassment for attention" crap that half these supposed "victims" do for publicity.

(there, is that better?)

 

[Kuro Serpentina]

I liked Link's Crossbow Training

BLASPHEME-nah just kidding

anyway, quick note: folks who keep saying "but that's not MEEEEE" okay how about just, assuming, it's not you, and then not making a huge deal out of it

however, if your first impulse is to jump on the board to state that it's not you, then YES IT REALLY IS YOU because the entire video was about people who do that, instead of EITHER supporting OR not covering your ass reflexively

read that correctly? EITHER, OR.

it's not about you

I just said I enjoyed the game, not that I don't agree with Jim here
Heck, I'm actually one of the few who are glad Sarkesian is around, cause she got the discussion about thus sorta thing into the lime light
So, yeah... "If you wanna stay in your corner, stay in your fucking corner"

 

[Deadcyde]

Also, Schadenfraude is apart of human nature. Until it's not, trolls are going to exist.

That does not mean we should excuse their behavior. But neither does that mean that we can plead innocence when we purposely seek them out. Besides, these trolls feed on attention. Surely "do not feed the trolls" is sound advice still?

 

[Infernal Lawyer]

Coming from a guy who's in the "this doesn't affect me so I don't care so much" boat, I have to say a lot of people here are being quite daft. Noone's asking you to police the whole goddamn internet... All you have to do is stand up when you see people being jerks and say "that's not cool, dude" and, if the option is available, report them. It's not that fucking complicated. I mean, isn't that how it works in real life?

 

[Jennacide]

My only real problem with Jim's argument is that he didn't address the catch 22 we are currently in. We can't ignore the problem, because then it will never go away, but the ignorant assholes that do the kind of shit like Zoe suffered also aren't going to change no matter what we do and feed off the attention, negative or otherwise. So we should ignore them, but that also won't change anything. Even if every single person here were in agreement about the subject, which I think we mostly are, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme. The misogynist assholes that populate places like 4chan's /v/ aren't going to listen. They'll keep their pitchforks and torches at the ready for any subject.

It's a messy subject, with no good answer. It's why I've resorted to playing games almost entirely on my PC, so when I'm doing multiplayer it's either with friends only, or on a server where I know (or am) an admin. That way I'm not afraid to talk and hear jerks make sexist comments because my voice instantly reveals my gender. (I'm looking at you XBL, ie: the reason I pawned my 360)

Coming from a guy who's in the "this doesn't affect me so I don't care so much" boat, I have to say a lot of people here are being quite daft. Noone's asking you to police the whole goddamn internet... All you have to do is stand up when you see people being jerks and say "that's not cool, dude" and, if the option is available, report them. It's not that fucking complicated. I mean, isn't that how it works in real life?

The problem isn't places like these forums, where we can ban people that run their mouth off. The problem areas are places like 4chan, XBL, or any mostly anonymous location with no central control mechanism. Steam Greenlight was the problem for Zoe because there is SO MUCH posted there that it can't all be policed by Valve, and then the trolls took it to her email and phone. How do you stop them then? You can try to bring authorities in, but that rarely works sadly. And for every asshole you might actually catch, there are 10 to take their place.

 

[daxterx2005]

Link's crossbow training wasn't thaaaat bad.
You should have brought up the Phillips CDi games tho.

 

[Deadcyde]

My only real problem with Jim's argument is that he didn't address the catch 22 we are currently in. We can't ignore the problem, because then it will never go away, but the ignorant assholes that do the kind of shit like Zoe suffered also aren't going to change no matter what we do and feed off the attention, negative or otherwise. So we should ignore them, but that also won't change anything. Even if every single person here were in agreement about the subject, which I think we mostly are, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme. The misogynist assholes that populate places like 4chan's /v/ aren't going to listen. They'll keep their pitchforks and torches at the ready for any subject.

It's a messy subject, with no good answer. It's why I've resorted to playing games almost entirely on my PC, so when I'm doing multiplayer it's either with friends only, or on a server where I know (or am) an admin. That way I'm not afraid to talk and hear jerks make sexist comments because my voice instantly reveals my gender. (I'm looking at you XBL, ie: the reason I pawned my 360)

Coming from a guy who's in the "this doesn't affect me so I don't care so much" boat, I have to say a lot of people here are being quite daft. Noone's asking you to police the whole goddamn internet... All you have to do is stand up when you see people being jerks and say "that's not cool, dude" and, if the option is available, report them. It's not that fucking complicated. I mean, isn't that how it works in real life?

The problem isn't places like these forums, where we can ban people that run their mouth off. The problem areas are places like 4chan, XBL, or any mostly anonymous location with no central control mechanism. Steam Greenlight was the problem for Zoe because there is SO MUCH posted there that it can't all be policed by Valve, and then the trolls took it to her email and phone. How do you stop them then? You can try to bring authorities in, but that rarely works sadly. And for every asshole you might actually catch, there are 10 to take their place.

The "shit Zoe suffered", she brought on herself. It wasn't a case of the channers singling her out because she was a women. She went to their turf to extol a game she knew would antagonise them. The fact she is a woman isn't even an issue here, anyone would have caught the flak she did had they done what she had done. Sexualizing the issue is a cheap way of getting more publicity.

Those "problem areas" you speak of like the chans, they generally stay away if you stay away. Fact is they are known as places that attract anonymous trolling and have basically the internet equivilent of CAUTION: COFFEE IS HOT signs. If you choose to ignore that, you deserve to get burned. It sounds harsh, but you don't find places like 4chan by accidenty.

As for places like XBL, it's exponential growth. Places that attract more people, will attract more idiots. Tell me how many idiots bitching about your gender you had to deal with playing saaay, fable, or magic the gathering, or even res 6. PLay COD on the other hand, and well, you get the point. Fact is, no matter your gender, you're going to deal with idiots (see my schadenfreude comment), so please stop making it sound like you have the market cornered on them because you're female.

 

[Bruce]

My only real problem with Jim's argument is that he didn't address the catch 22 we are currently in. We can't ignore the problem, because then it will never go away, but the ignorant assholes that do the kind of shit like Zoe suffered also aren't going to change no matter what we do and feed off the attention, negative or otherwise. So we should ignore them, but that also won't change anything. Even if every single person here were in agreement about the subject, which I think we mostly are, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme. The misogynist assholes that populate places like 4chan's /v/ aren't going to listen. They'll keep their pitchforks and torches at the ready for any subject.

It's a messy subject, with no good answer. It's why I've resorted to playing games almost entirely on my PC, so when I'm doing multiplayer it's either with friends only, or on a server where I know (or am) an admin. That way I'm not afraid to talk and hear jerks make sexist comments because my voice instantly reveals my gender. (I'm looking at you XBL, ie: the reason I pawned my 360)

Coming from a guy who's in the "this doesn't affect me so I don't care so much" boat, I have to say a lot of people here are being quite daft. Noone's asking you to police the whole goddamn internet... All you have to do is stand up when you see people being jerks and say "that's not cool, dude" and, if the option is available, report them. It's not that fucking complicated. I mean, isn't that how it works in real life?

The problem isn't places like these forums, where we can ban people that run their mouth off. The problem areas are places like 4chan, XBL, or any mostly anonymous location with no central control mechanism. Steam Greenlight was the problem for Zoe because there is SO MUCH posted there that it can't all be policed by Valve, and then the trolls took it to her email and phone. How do you stop them then? You can try to bring authorities in, but that rarely works sadly. And for every asshole you might actually catch, there are 10 to take their place.

The "shit Zoe suffered", she brought on herself. It wasn't a case of the channers singling her out because she was a women. She went to their turf to extol a game she knew would antagonise them. The fact she is a woman isn't even an issue here, anyone would have caught the flak she did had they done what she had done. Sexualizing the issue is a cheap way of getting more publicity.

Those "problem areas" you speak of like the chans, they generally stay away if you stay away. Fact is they are known as places that attract anonymous trolling and have basically the internet equivilent of CAUTION: COFFEE IS HOT signs. If you choose to ignore that, you deserve to get burned. It sounds harsh, but you don't find places like 4chan by accidenty.

As for places like XBL, it's exponential growth. Places that attract more people, will attract more idiots. Tell me how many idiots bitching about your gender you had to deal with playing saaay, fable, or magic the gathering, or even res 6. PLay COD on the other hand, and well, you get the point. Fact is, no matter your gender, you're going to deal with idiots (see my schadenfreude comment), so please stop making it sound like you have the market cornered on them because you're female.

Everyone who said that what Jim was talking about wasn't part of The Escapist community - here's a prime example of you being exactly wrong.

 

[Deadcyde]

Everyone who said that what Jim was talking about wasn't part of The Escapist community - here's a prime example of you being exactly wrong.

Not everyone can be as Rock Paper shotgun, huffington post, ultra conservative over politically correct as yourself.

I mean surely personal responsibility should never be as important as percieved sexual harrassment. /sarcasm

The fact it was a woman was inconsequential, it was ammo for insults, had it been a bald guy it would have been bald jokes, had it been a fat guy, you guessed it. It also doesn't address the fact that she went to known troll places. What the hell for if not to kick a hornets nest?

Had she put the game up on greenlight without going to the chan, what do you suppose would have happened?

EDIT: The truely disturbing thing is no one is asking, "okay, how did this start?" "how did these people get so annnoyed over this game as to harrass her?" "was it really because she was a woman or was that simply ammo to her juvinile attackers" "is this really a commentary on our community or is it the same idiots who've been acting like idiots all along" "how is this even gender based? Is it just one idiots comment?" "where is the source material on this?""Is any of this verified?"

On the upside, her game is getting heaps of publicity!

 

[Bruce]

Everyone who said that what Jim was talking about wasn't part of The Escapist community - here's a prime example of you being exactly wrong.

Not everyone can be as Rock Paper shotgun, huffington post, ultra conservative over politically correct as yourself.

I mean surely personal responsibility should never be as important as percieved sexual harrassment. /sarcasm

The fact it was a woman was inconsequential, it was ammo for insults, had it been a bald guy it would have been bald jokes, had it been a fat guy, you guessed it. It also doesn't address the fact that she went to known troll places. What the hell for if not to kick a hornets nest?

Had she put the game up on greenlight without going to the chan, what do you suppose would have happened?

No, some people, AKA you, evidently have to make shit up in order to blame someone for being harassed. Do you have any evidence for your claim? No, but you'll make it anyway because that allows you to feel like it is all her fault.

What you have posted illustrates 100% that yes, the problem Jim is talking about in his video is present within The Escapist Community. You have done exactly what he was talking about and you are a part of this community.

 

[Deadcyde]

Everyone who said that what Jim was talking about wasn't part of The Escapist community - here's a prime example of you being exactly wrong.

Not everyone can be as Rock Paper shotgun, huffington post, ultra conservative over politically correct as yourself.

I mean surely personal responsibility should never be as important as percieved sexual harrassment. /sarcasm

The fact it was a woman was inconsequential, it was ammo for insults, had it been a bald guy it would have been bald jokes, had it been a fat guy, you guessed it. It also doesn't address the fact that she went to known troll places. What the hell for if not to kick a hornets nest?

Had she put the game up on greenlight without going to the chan, what do you suppose would have happened?

No, some people, AKA you, evidently have to make shit up in order to blame someone for being harassed. Do you have any evidence for your claim? No, but you'll make it anyway because that allows you to feel like it is all her fault.

What you have posted illustrates 100% that yes, the problem Jim is talking about in his video is present within The Escapist Community. You have done exactly what he was talking about and you are a part of this community.

Please enlighten me on to what i made up, as well as enlightening me on evidence of the claims that kicked this off in the first place. All i've seen is a couple of twitter posts and chan screencaps without context and a greenlight conversation that seems to have started elsewhere. So time to put your money where your mouth is. You have no proof she didn't antagonize them and is reaping the whirlwind. None.

Otherwise, what Jim describes is the destruction of personal responsibility. That it's our responsibility to deal with trolls, not their own. As well as the fact that those who antagonise them are without blame.. So sorry if i disagree.

 

[Bruce]

Everyone who said that what Jim was talking about wasn't part of The Escapist community - here's a prime example of you being exactly wrong.

Not everyone can be as Rock Paper shotgun, huffington post, ultra conservative over politically correct as yourself.

I mean surely personal responsibility should never be as important as percieved sexual harrassment. /sarcasm

The fact it was a woman was inconsequential, it was ammo for insults, had it been a bald guy it would have been bald jokes, had it been a fat guy, you guessed it. It also doesn't address the fact that she went to known troll places. What the hell for if not to kick a hornets nest?

Had she put the game up on greenlight without going to the chan, what do you suppose would have happened?

No, some people, AKA you, evidently have to make shit up in order to blame someone for being harassed. Do you have any evidence for your claim? No, but you'll make it anyway because that allows you to feel like it is all her fault.

What you have posted illustrates 100% that yes, the problem Jim is talking about in his video is present within The Escapist Community. You have done exactly what he was talking about and you are a part of this community.

Please enlighten me on to what i made up, as well as enlightening me on evidence of the claims that kicked this off in the first place. All i've seen is a couple of twitter posts and chan screencaps without context and a greenlight conversation that seems to have started elsewhere. So time to put your money where your mouth is.

So you admit it - your claim that she put the game on 4chan herself is 100% made-up. Good day sir.

 

[Deadcyde]

..... you're kidding? that's what you're arguing?

Well first of all, never mentioned 4chan as the place she put the game on. Second: never said she put the game on the chans only that she went to these places. Third: it seems that your only point of arguement is to say that I made up that she put the game on 4chan, not my actual point regarding that theres no proof that she didn't intentionally antagonize these people, or that the fact she was a woman was inconsequential, or that the source material on these things is sparse as to only be her side of the story or whatever casts her in a favorable light.

And to play devils advocate, even if that one point you seem determined to undermine wasn't true the rest of the point stands.

So you've succeeding in bringing the conversation exactly no further then where it was before you talked, well done sir.

EDIT: also, I imagine why most people say "what did you do to piss them off" first is because they imagine themselves throwing the hateful comments and then based upon your response and their own motivations they would judge whether the comments/retorts/whatever was warrented or not. Is this wrong? Well it has a negative impact on the victim. However as everyone percives themselves as the good guy it means that the "victim" will always feel slighted by it. Yet on the other hand, if we were to simply believe whatever the apparent victim said, then that means we would be, simply put, gullible. So I put to you people who like to use the word "victim blamers" what do you propose to solve this dilemma?

 

[Bruce]

..... you're kidding? that's what you're arguing?

Well first of all, never mentioned 4chan as the place she put the game on. Second: never said she put the game on the chans only that she went to these places. Third: it seems that your only point of arguement is to say that I made up that she put the game on 4chan, not my actual point regarding that theres no proof that she didn't intentionally antagonize these people, or that the fact she was a woman was inconsequential, or that the source material on these things is sparse as to only be her side of the story or whatever casts her in a favorable light.

And to play devils advocate, even if that one point you seem determined to undermine wasn't true the rest of the point stands.

So you've succeeding in bringing the conversation exactly no further then where it was before you talked, well done sir.

The basis of your argument is that she wouldn't have gotten harassed if she didn't go to the chans right?

Yet you cannot demonstrate that she went to chans before the harassment campaign began. You do not have any evidence for anything you claim.

You said it yourself:

All i've seen is a couple of twitter posts and chan screencaps without context and a greenlight conversation that seems to have started elsewhere.

We do not generally assume guilt on the part of the aggrieved party. You actually have to show that she did what you say she did or your point is moot.

 

[Deadcyde]

..... you're kidding? that's what you're arguing?

Well first of all, never mentioned 4chan as the place she put the game on. Second: never said she put the game on the chans only that she went to these places. Third: it seems that your only point of arguement is to say that I made up that she put the game on 4chan, not my actual point regarding that theres no proof that she didn't intentionally antagonize these people, or that the fact she was a woman was inconsequential, or that the source material on these things is sparse as to only be her side of the story or whatever casts her in a favorable light.

And to play devils advocate, even if that one point you seem determined to undermine wasn't true the rest of the point stands.

So you've succeeding in bringing the conversation exactly no further then where it was before you talked, well done sir.

The basis of your argument is that she wouldn't have gotten harassed if she didn't go to the chans right?

Yet you cannot demonstrate that she went to chans before the harassment campaign began. You do not have any evidence for anything you claim.

You said it yourself:

All i've seen is a couple of twitter posts and chan screencaps without context and a greenlight conversation that seems to have started elsewhere.

We do not generally assume guilt on the part of the aggrieved party. You actually have to show that she did what you say she did or your point is moot.

Yet you assume she is the aggreived party, without proof this could be anything from a publicity stunt with no players except those performing a preassigned duty, to a shit storm she brought upon herself antagonizing misanthropes intentionally. Even if i misinterpreted the series of events based upon the sketchy evidence that exists the onus is upon you to provide proof of the original claim. Which is that this is what she said it is.

Please stop acting like you're speaking for anyone but yourself. It's creating a false dichotomy of us and them and ignoring the fact that the opinions on this forum are hardly polar... for instance. Without proof I don't believe her,that this could be a publicity stunt, or simply the same two mouth breathers apparently being cast as examples of our community but that doesn't mean I condone nor tolerate toxic trolls or sexism. So i'm sure we agree on some points but not on others.

 

[Deadcyde]

it's a cut and paste from wizardchan but here you have it.. she was there first.

Anonymous 12/14/13 (Sat) 19:51:42 No.11220
>>11153
>I'm just surprised because there's no evidence this raid even happened.
THIS
There was a thread about that game on v9k but it died few days ago.
The only thing she posted were two screens from that thread but it wasn't harassing, it was on our site, we weren't insulting her on her twitter, in person or something. Then she said someone called and masturbated to a phone? What the fuck. She came up with this story for publicity, suddenly all internet sends her good words, people vote on her game on steam and wish us death.


Also look - I'm now writing "Phil Fish sucks cocks and chokes on them, his game is shit and I wish he would die". Is that harassing? Will there be articles about it? No there won't, because he's not a female. He will not make a story about "muh matriarchy" how he as a male felt "harassed". And if he did nobody would care because people care only when women feel insulted.
[\quote]

http://wizardchan.org/meta/res/11103.html theres the link if you want to check the source

best i could find.. Now what bothers me is if you sort through the occasional neckbeard comment you get a real sense of a bunch of randoms rubbing their heads and shrugging as to what the fuck actually happened. I guess we caught our culprits right?

Publicity stunt.

 

[Bruce]

..... you're kidding? that's what you're arguing?

Well first of all, never mentioned 4chan as the place she put the game on. Second: never said she put the game on the chans only that she went to these places. Third: it seems that your only point of arguement is to say that I made up that she put the game on 4chan, not my actual point regarding that theres no proof that she didn't intentionally antagonize these people, or that the fact she was a woman was inconsequential, or that the source material on these things is sparse as to only be her side of the story or whatever casts her in a favorable light.

And to play devils advocate, even if that one point you seem determined to undermine wasn't true the rest of the point stands.

So you've succeeding in bringing the conversation exactly no further then where it was before you talked, well done sir.

The basis of your argument is that she wouldn't have gotten harassed if she didn't go to the chans right?

Yet you cannot demonstrate that she went to chans before the harassment campaign began. You do not have any evidence for anything you claim.

You said it yourself:

All i've seen is a couple of twitter posts and chan screencaps without context and a greenlight conversation that seems to have started elsewhere.

We do not generally assume guilt on the part of the aggrieved party. You actually have to show that she did what you say she did or your point is moot.

Yet you assume she is the aggreived party, without proof this could be anything from a publicity stunt with no players except those performing a preassigned duty, to a shit storm she brought upon herself antagonizing misanthropes intentionally. Even if i misinterpreted the series of events based upon the sketchy evidence that exists the onus is upon you to provide proof of the original claim. Which is that this is what she said it is.

Please stop acting like you're speaking for anyone but yourself. It's creating a false dichotomy of us and them and ignoring the fact that the opinions on this forum are hardly polar... for instance. Without proof I don't believe her,that this could be a publicity stunt, or simply the same two mouth breathers apparently being cast as examples of our community but that doesn't mean I condone nor tolerate toxic trolls or sexism. So i'm sure we agree on some points but not on others.

I am going on the coverage presented.

EG:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/130525-Depression-Quest-Dev-Faces-Harassment-after-Steam-Submission

You're by the looks of it, just making shit up. Otherwise show me the evidence you have for your accusations.

 

[Deadcyde]

Funny, you keep putting the onus of evidence upon me... I'm not the one saying I was harrassed, no?

Where's her evidence apart from a couple of out of context neckbeard comments which unless she went to the site purposely mysteriously coalesced out of nowhere.

EDIT: That's not the source BTW. There is no source. Because it's made up. Find me the original thread on wizardchan. That would be the point right? Probably far more then your constant need to attack me.

Because without evidence she was actually attacked, this is all coincidental. Right?

EDIT EDIT: also, read up on the rules of wizard chan and the board this all apparently came from (v9k or whatever). Explain to me wtf she was even doing there if not to antagonize.

for those that don't want to look, wizardchan is a site specifically for Male virgins over the age of 30 and v9k is the depression board in which women, or men in relationships, are specifically asked not to enter and discussion about women expressly forbidden