Karadalis said:
Rebel_Raven said:
And not fighting trolls means they work harder to get a reaction. They don't know where the lines are drawn until they cross them, and they're eager to find those lines. They'll get more and more obnoxious until they get the reaction they want, and even then that might not stop them from getting worse. Due to that it's generally impossible to ignore them because part of their joy is figuring out what, exactly, is the ***** in your armor.
"Don't feed the trolls" is a failure, you see. For as long as it's existed, for all the sense it might make, it's failed as it hasn't stopped trolling, and likely never will. All it did was let trolling get more and more obnoxious by not giving repercussions to trolling.
Being "banned" or suspended, or whatever doesn't stop trolls. It doesn't hurt them. When they're driven to make people miserable, nothing's really going to stop them. They'll just make new accounts.
They might work "harder"
But in the end they are just as powerless as anyone else. Tell me.. what can one of these trolls do that i cant? Nothing. When you boil it down its all just words.. you can choose to ignore them or to aknowledge them. What youre suposed to do is work together with the authorities if things get out of hand. Thats all.. no one else not involved can change anything about that.
Think about it: They work harder and harder but no matter how hard they work they get ignored.
At one point even they give up and thats the moment when you won over the troll. Does it make them disapear? No.. but it also doesnt give them any form of satisfaction.
Dont feed the trolls is not a failure if you follow through with it, but as people like Jim proove it is to joice of a topic and creates way to much attention to let it be. More attention = more money.
I might have to point out thought that i absolutely agree with your argument to report these trolls. No discussion there. But you are not suposed to engage in forum combat to defend the person whos being harassed either. Youre doing them no favour and instead only attract more hatefull people.
They are like vultures and youre throwing out more meat for them to gobble up.
Also it hasnt stopped trolling because it does not and can not get rid of the people who troll. Nor does any other attempt at fixing the problem.
Haters gonna hate... that is a fundamental truth of this world. They are not going away EVER aslong as humanity exist. Blaming everyone else for their existance thought isnt helping either and is rather insulting if you think about it.
Its like blaming all muslims for 9/11
Or that im to blame that hooligans are beating people up and sometimes kill them because i also happen to like soccer? Because that is what Jim is saying in his video.
Guilty by association and everyone who distances him or herselfe from those people is suddenly an asshole and a lesser person?
Should every trollpost now be met with millions of counterposts? People dont have time for that.. people have their own problems and own lives without making someone elses problem their own just because they both happen to be involved in the same hobby.
Work with the authorities who have the power to actually remove the bile, but dont try to make your problem everyones else who isnt directly involved with whats going on. Especialy when it comes down to internet harassment. No matter of raising attention to this problem is going to stop hatefull people unless the internet stops being anonymous.
And i cant imagine anyone wants that to happen either. Yes im being very harsh to the victims here but that is the cold truth. Rallying support from the powerless is not going to help you because by definition they are powerless.
Or does anyone really believe me posting in support of that Game dev is going to change anything? Or 100 people? Or 1000? or 10.000s? Or millions? The number doesnt matter, they are still powerless and can easaly be ignored by the haters or rather become fuel for their hate.
Yeah. See, they want to get a rise out of you, see. And if they don't get one, they'll decide that you're a target and keep trying until they do because you challenge them. They want to get you mad, remember?
Granted, a troll is only human, same as you, and I, but it's not that they can do things we can't, it's what they chose to do.
See, the contradiction arises again. You can't ignore something, yet acknowledge it exists.
Ignoring something means to deny it exists. You can't report something you deny exists.
If you're open to constructive criticism, I'd say more along the lines of "report them, and do not reply to them" or some such. Unfortunately that only works when there's people to make reports to, and even if there are people to make reports to, they might not get as offended as you are, so the troll stands unpunished. With my battlegrounds being in gender issues among gaming, I've seen a lot of abrasive posts that stand.
They work harder, and harder until they're ringing your telephone. It's the thrill of the hunt for some of them. Sure, call the police, but what if the trolls are 12 yearolds? They'll likely just get slapped on the wrist, and the thrill of their lives that they got attention.
Ignoring them just lets them move the lines they have to cross to get to you. When you want gold/silver/what have you, do you stop using your pick just because there's some rock in your way? The rewards are worth it.
think about the scenario of a child calling their parent over, and over, and over again, not because they're hungry, or in danger, they want to make their parent mad. When the parent finally snaps, the reaction is far greater the longer they've been annoyed.
It's the same way with trolls. They're the kid trying to annoy you, the parent, until you snap, and they want you to explode big time.
Don't feed the trolls is a failure because you said it yourself. Haters are going to hate. It doesn't make the trolls go away, it just makes you a bigger challenge, and gets you more attention. You're pretty damned either way unless you luck out, and the only trolls you come up against are not really devoted to trolling.
Statistically it's impossible for everyone to ignore them all on top of that. Sooner or later, a troll will say the right thing to make you mad.
Sooner or later all the people trying to make you mad will become too much. What are you supposed to do? Become a hermit? A person's skin can only get so thick.
Don't feed the trolls sounds great on paper until you're faced with a troll. Especially faced with a smart troll that knows how to skirt the rules, and continually annoy you.
Well, I'm not terribly up to date on the Muslims. Have there been protests against 9/11 from them? Have they showed large scale, or organized outrage against the people that did 9/11?
I'm not saying I blame them all, mind you. I handle people on a case by case basis, frankly.
On that note, when was the last time -gamers- made any sort of organized outrage against the trolls?
Sure it might give the trolls attention, but it'd also show the world that not everyone agrees with them, or are like them. The trolls are winning. People outside looking in think we're all trolls. The trolls are getting attention.
Soccer? When was the last time you protested the hooligans?
Innocent until proven guilty isn't a universal thing. People get hurt by a group, word spreads, the group looks bad. If they rarely, if ever look good, then what the heck are people supposed to think? Humanity is pretty hard wired to think in terms of tribes, grouping people into like people and thinking of people as a group. When that group seems full of assholes, they're a group of assholes until they show otherwise. It's like those alien invasion movies where the aliens see humanity as irredeemable scum until some humans show the aliens that humanity has potential, and aren't all scum. This moral isn't taken for granted. It's not always imprinted upon people. People will get conditioned to see a group of people a certain way. Again, if that certain way is "asshole" then that's the way it is until enough non-assholes show otherwise.
Trollposts should be met with moderation. If that's not possible, then, well, something has to be done. Enough disdain shown towards them until the troll's feelings are hurt enough until they stop might work. We have to show they're not welcome, don't we? Coz until we do, they'll make themselves at home, the way I see it.
People don't have to make time to find these posts, mind you. Just do what needs to be done when you can do it. Is that reasonable?
If you don't give a damn about other people, how can you expect people to give a damn about you? Their problems are problems, and problems are made to be solved. Solutions are easier with many people involved so long as they're on the same page.
But the problem arises again, haters gunna hate. It won't make them all go away either.
Still, it is so terrible to exercise some empathy, and sympathy?
The -real- problem, IMO, is people are afraid to rely on one another, and have to fix their own problems.
the problem with leaving it to the authorities is that people can just make another account. There's no authorities over the internet. Some sites have authorities, but not all of them. Trolls can't be stopped either way. Trolls get banned, they make new accounts, and resume trying to burn the planet for the view.
Real life authorities can't act until certain things happen, and if a troll stays petty enough, real life authority tends not to do a damn thing.
I mean, all these harassing phone calls. Why aren't there followup articles stating these people got put in jail, juvy (likely there, I'd imagine), sued, or otherwise punished? The trolls see the other trolls don't get punished, then copy cat.
Being harsh to the victims? I don't really see that. Being harsh to the victims is trolling them. Especially until they break.
Leaving the victims to their own devices isn't going to help. They're going to reach a breaking point all the faster without support, and frankly I figure that leads to pain, and bloodshed.
So it's a no win situation, isn't it? Haters gunna hate. Still, they're going to make themselves at home until we kick them out, and show them they aren't wanted sufficiently that they go away.
