Jimquisition: Time To Get Paid

[brazuca]

It's ironic that a game I applaud for shaming a corporate money-grubbing mentality because it succeeded on morally-superior indy development mentality is not going to get my purchase because I'm ashamed to see anyone playing a game about being part of a team of money-grubbing assholes who are so morally unreprehensible that they think nothing of gunning down innocents (and each other) in order to score a quick buck by performing a bank heist.

Even if it's "just pretend," this setting puts me in a moral crisis that was really unnecessary. I really want to encourage the former behavior of indy development without corporate fuckery, because I've been enduring decades of crappy games as a result. However, the backdrop of this game is so severely off the hook that I still won't vote for my wallet for it.

Not sure if this would be considered warning bait or not but it is just way too appropriate a response.

So now I can make games about plane hitting towers and achieving massive points by doing so. Geldonyetich is right. I'm talking about my exp. alone, but I come from a family of cops. I don't mind killing cops in a video game, but GTA for example is ludicrous about it. Payday is the only thing you do is gun down cops. Like a lot. That is why I used the 9/11 reference. People are so much into that double standard that some times it's hard to realize how sleazy and imoral some media stories became.
Also going back on GTA, that is one of the reasons GTA goes for the comic relief so much. Payday wants to be taken serious, when we know it simply can't. Another example are those eroge games made in Japan about raping youngster. Playing Payday (yes I played the first one) and saying well it's okay, it's not real, to me atleast sounds the same excuse as playing those eroge game and saying: of course it's not wrong. It's not real...

 

[Orekoya]

Considering the nature of your post(which would be charitable to only be calling it troll bait) on the forums it is on, I would say you have little grounds to judge my intellectual or moral standing.

Why, because you said so? No. Your judgement of my post is not what my post actually said. Try harder, all you got here is Ad Hominem.

Your message was heavy handed and self-righteous beyond belief about morality within games and when I point that out you reach for logical fallacies, the wrong one. Quick - build that straw man faster.

The least you could've done is used the right logical fallacy in play which would be ad ignorantiam since I supplied no data to back up my stance. Of course then I could've responded with saying the same about your rather bizarre stance on game morality that you posted on a gaming forum then we could've played flame wars proper all the live long day.

 

[Steve2911]

It's your right to choose not to buy it, but comparing it to a 9/11 simulator? Fuck the fuck off.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

So dedication and hutzpah sells a game potentially better than inflated marketing budgets and overwrought CGI?

I knew there was a reason Payday 2 interested me more than D3: Reaper of Souls...

As for the "despicable" nature of the game - who cares? We've had a smorgasbord of heist-themed movies before, and not a single one of them addressed the more realistic aspects of mounting something like that. It's always puckish, lovable rogues who get saddled with the single foaming sociopath who's liable to have an itchy trigger finger. Once he gets pushed out of the picture, we're stuck with the snooze-worthy tale of the well-meaning hoodlum who has to desperately see the hit through before the absolute squares which are the police close in on him.

Payday is the one and only IP where we get to see the more appropriately frantic and calculative aspect of a heist, and I highly doubt it "celebrates" you behaving like a ruthless scumbag. If you've played any modern brown FPS military shooter, chances are you've played as the opposing force once or twice. Chances are you gunned down your opponents without the least bit of remorse.

Games are made to be enjoyed by mature individuals who can see past surface-level hot-button issues. No amount of FPS drilling in the world could teach me how to handle an M16, much less a pistol. No amount of ultraviolence à la GTA or Saints Row could push me to consider that wanton murder is acceptable.

Why? Because I have a head, and I use it. There's really no moral controversy here, unless you're dead-set on creating one.

 

[proghead]

The mind boggles, thinking that the people who played the first game would know what could make the next one even better. I mean seriously, who would've thunk!

[/sarcasm]

 

[MCerberus]

So a AA developer makes a co-op shooter using not the best tech they could buy, but make they game they want for the people that want it. I wonder if this game is going to have the lifespan Killing Floor is enjoying.

 

[geldonyetich]

Your message was heavy handed and self-righteous beyond belief about morality within games

No. My message was just a bunch of text on the message board. Your interpretation of it was that it was heavy-handed and self-rightous. Guess whose head that idea was invented? No, don't, you'll just get it wrong: it was yours.

Stop pushing your crappy interpretations on me like they're my fault.

I point that out you reach for logical fallacies

You've yet to do this successfully here. Frankly, there's no logical wrong to be found in my premises. All I said was:

1. I want to support games that are not subject to corporate misconduct undermining their quality.
2. I do not want to support games that gratuitously depict acts of violence such as gunning down droves of innocent police officers (which is practically all you do in Pay Day).

What are you going to prove, logically? That I don't want the things I want?

Quick - build that straw man faster.

Stop talking to yourself when posting.

The least you could've done is used the right logical fallacy in play which would be argumentum ad ignorantiam since I supplied no data to back up my stance. Of course then I could've responded with saying the same about your rather bizarre stance on game morality that would posted on a gaming forum then we could've played flame wars proper all the live long day.

This sure is a neat thing you copied and pasted that has nothing to do with what went on here considering there was no logical argument going on. It was just you, looking at me expressing my beliefs about what I wanted, and being a jerk by posting a macro about it.

You think you can salvage that act of callous and ignorant disavowing of another's belief with a kneejerk macro? No, you can't. You're just digging yourself deeper by not owning up to it. You're trying to pull us off into the realm of logical argument, but there's none to be had. You screwed up, part of you knew you were screwing up when you thought you might get a warning for it, and now you're just elevating that to a catastrophic screw up by trying to talk your way out of it.

I think it's clear at this point that we've just been polluting Jim's comment thread here. (Sorry, Jim, admins, I let myself get fished into this garbage and made a mess.) From here on out, take it to private messages or shut up, because all I will be doing with you at this point is reporting and moving on.

 

[Goliath100]

So, Jimmy, did you and TotalBiscuit plan this together or is it a coincidence that both of you talk about sequels that did better than its predecessor through word of mouth, on the same day?

Total coincidence. We both seem to have similar trains of thought, so it's not the first time we've coincided.

Of course, he never plays with dildos, as far as I know.

On another note, nice to see you are getting better filler material with the take-a-good-game-and-use-it-to-absolute-shame-and humiliation-big-publishers episodes. And that's despite the fact that this desperately needs a Metro reference (like all the other episodes that don't have one).

 

[Dominic Crossman]

Firstly, oh god, burn that outro from my mind, please.
Second, good for the developers for showing the AAA game industry what massive pricks they are and turning a profit,
Third, I didn't enjoy the first game, is there a chance I will like the second one, as I want to support developers like this.

 

[Orekoya]

My message was just a bunch of text on the message board. Your interpretation of it was that it was heavy-handed and self-rightous. Guess whose head that idea was invented? No, don't you'll just get it wrong: it was yours.

You know the second you compared this to a 9/11 simulator is the point where you don't get to pretend you're not intentionally trolling the forums, right? But sure whatever, talk down to me more, it's hilarious.

 

[Smurf McSmurfington]

...huh. So that ending was... a something.
Somehow I feel glad that I watched it.

Also, is it just me, or has Jim lost weight?

 

[Kittyhawk]

There is a secret cunning ingredient to Payday 2's success. After the real banks messed with our real money and ruined real lives and economies, its certainly no surprise that many regular folk would love to turn over a bank in a game, and give them greedy bastards some real payback.

Humble success is good thing and I'm sure that while the original Payday was okay, its lack of 360 presence hurt it somewhat, because PS3 still didn't have a dedicated headset with each PS3 sold. Voice chat and co-operation are really needed to get the most out of Payday, as much as it works for Left 4 Dead.

Yeah, I'm also glad that despite lack of advertising, Overkill still got the word out there. I discovered Payday 2 via their youtube dev gameplay video. It looked like fun so I then ordered a copy and told my friends about it so we could go a heisting.

Certainly a 2013 sleeper hit. I'll really be looking forward to whatever Overkill have planned for next gen.

 

[Something Amyss]

Payday 2 isn't my thing. And that's absolutely fine. I'm glad it's doing well and I hope people learn from this example.

Also, Ducktales with dragon tongues.
...Bravo.

 

[twesterm]

So since this video mentioned terrible advertising-- what do you think of that terrible Diablo 3 advert that has been playing on all Escapist videos the past week or so?

 

[Demandred20]

I wonder if there has been done any research on the diminishing returns on marketing regarding to games. I mean these days games who spends tens of millions in marketing doesnt seem to outsell games who rely on word of mouth by a significant factor.

Though I guess it could be that good games sell anyway but word of mouth doesnt really work on bad games thus marketing only really makes a difference there. Of course without that bloated marketing budget the game might have been good in the first place.

 

[Lyvric]

It's nice to see games like payday 2 taking the time to work towards the market they want. Other types of games have done this in the past but it's about time the FPS started to recognize it has way more resources to put it's content out and still be good.

 

[Fappy]

So, Jimmy, did you and TotalBiscuit plan this together or is it a coincidence that both of you talk about sequels that did better than its predecessor through word of mouth, on the same day?

Total coincidence. We both seem to have similar trains of thought, so it's not the first time we've coincided.

Of course, he never plays with dildos, as far as I know.

Which makes him inferior by default.

Also, kudos doing that in the middle of the day. Your poor neighbors XD

 

[A3sir]

Almost like "MMOs need hundreds of millions of money to succeed against WoW. *cough* EVE *cough*

 

[Faith Meade]

Jim, I'm not sure what you had to do to stand up for trans people, but as a trans person that fucking loves your show, thank you very much.

 

[Glaice]

Gotta love that last segment with the dildo, and yes BD does make much larger toys going into the 12 to 14 inch length range.