Jimquisition: Tomodachi Strife

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Dragonbums

Indulge in it's whiffy sensation
May 9, 2013
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Imp Emissary said:
Dragonbums said:
The gist of what I removed from Dragonbums post: Jim got the details of the bug wrong and some other stuff. Link below.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.849789.20988250


Nature of the full bug at IGN (of all fucking places to get things right.) http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/05/nintendo-on-gay-marriage-and-tomodachi-life

The gay coupling players saw in screenshots were not a result of the bug. It was a result of Japanese players dressing up their "female" characters as male character and having them romance each other.
Wait.
Did they have the female Miis romance each other, or did they have the female Miis dressed as guys romance male Miis?

Anyway.

Yeah, I heard about that too. Glad Jim made the rest of it more about what Nintendo said to calm people and about how it's still so "risky" to just include gay people in games.

Still a shame about the misinformation, though I think you may be letting it get to you a bit too much.
They had female Mii's look and sound like Male Mii's and had them marry each other that way (I also think they were able to eliminate the default dresses as well to make it a lot more real)

I know it's getting to me, but man, look at the most commented section of this site. Most of them are directly related to the misinformation spreading of this entire issue. With people calling Nintendo bigots. I'm getting tired of it.
 

Something Amyss

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erbkaiser said:
Nintendo is of course also "racist" against Muslims, since this game does not allow marriages with little children (as the Prophet with Aisha), or plural marriages (a basic islamic right).
When did Muslims become a race, and when did a religion supersede things like laws? Were the latter that simple, one could simply get a same-sex marriage in Japan by converting to a branch of Christianity that accepts same-sex marriages. It doesn't work that way.

Of course, serious question. Assuming we accept your statements that Islam allows these things (though you'd get an argument from many Muslims against them), would you be as quick to defend a game made by Muslims that graphically depicted pedophilia because it's "their" cultural norm?

Would people really be as cool with Nintendo's stance if it was defending the option to include pedophilia?

And would that be sold in the US? OR would they do what they frequently do and "localise" it.
 

RandV80

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Big_Isaac said:
Just checked again and, yeah, unless I'm missing or misunderstanding something, this is how the whole thing went:

- Nintendo releases the game with the gay marriage thing
- The devs patch it away because it wasn't intentional
- The press starts going on about Nintendo being against homosexuality
- Nintendo responds, saying "this isn't what we were trying to say. We were just fixing a glitch"

Basically, the fault lies with whoever moron thought that patching gay relationship out of the game was necessary
I could be wrong but didn't the glitch in the game that was 'patched' have something to do with letting you swap the gender clothing palettes when importing characters? So technically it was more of a cross dressing glitch than a gay marriage one, and I would say is kind of a poor substitute for the latter.
 

malnin

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I like the idea of this video but the video itself is definitely not one of Jim's better ones. Containing misinformation about the patch as it wasn't to get rid of teh gays! but to fix game breaking glitches and the male/male relationships was a side effect. Also with the dismissive attitude towards the apology this gets very social justice ranty. Really the only thing Nintendo has done is once again proven how behind the times they are which isn't anything new.
 

LightningFast

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I've got a feeling this has more to do with Japan's marriage laws being behind the times than Nintendo trying to make a statement. Of course that doesn't make it right, but it explains it.

I feel like you missed some vital information in this one, Jim, like the effect that the glitch had on games and the fact that the game couldn't be changed for an English release, but your point still stands: homosexuality should not be a taboo topic. It should just be a thing.

I have a feeling that part of the reason Nintendo felt this was the "safe" decision is because the game is rated E for Everyone. I'm a progressive individual, but cynicism leads me to believe that with the current (unnecessary) politics surrounding same-sex marriage, that the ESRB and other rating boards would bump the rating up for having homosexual relationships at all. Again, that's fucking stupid and doesn't justify it, but it should explain it. Perhaps the reason we don't see controversy like this with the Sims or Skyrim is because they're rated T and M respectively...? After all, you see gay characters all the time on more adult-oriented TV shows, but god forbid our precious children are exposed to the gay! They might start exercising tolerance at a young age, or willingly sell the sodomites goods and services in exchange for currency as if they were... *Gasp*... NORMAL PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT SEXUAL ORIENTATIONS! Gay children will get it into their heads that their sexuality is nothing to be ashamed of, and before, THEY'LL BE EQUAL MEMBERS OF SOCIETY! ORPHANS WILL BE ADOPTED AND TAKEN OUT OF A BROKEN FOSTER SYSTEM, AND TEEN SUICIDE RATES WILL PLUMMET!
 

daxterx2005

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I must be living under a rock this is the first I've heard of this issue, hell its the first time I've heard of this game.
so what is it Sims with Miis?
 

Something Amyss

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shrekfan246 said:
It doesn't really excuse the "out-of-touch" aspect and it's still a pretty bad excuse anyway to be sure, but I feel the old adage of "don't attribute to malice what could just as easily be explained by stupidity" still applies. For better or for worse. *shrug*
The inherent problem is that stupidity doesn't significantly make things better, especially since they are "out of touch." It really also doesn't help that people jumped to their defense for being a Japanese company, as though that somehow made any of this particularly more acceptable.
 

10BIT

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Dragonbums said:
Goddammit Jim. You got the info of the bug wrong, you got the nature of the statement wrong, you got everything fucking wrong...
GODDAMN THIS!

This is why I can't stand it when Jim talks about social commentary; he tends to go full on SJW, twisting facts to suit his own agenda, convincing me that he's the one with the bigoted world view. I agree that Tomodachi Life would be improved if it had a slider for sexual orientation, but to spread misinformation about why they failed to implement it so as to paint them as awful human beings is childish and something I wish Jim was above.
 

shrekfan246

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May 26, 2011
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Zachary Amaranth said:
shrekfan246 said:
It doesn't really excuse the "out-of-touch" aspect and it's still a pretty bad excuse anyway to be sure, but I feel the old adage of "don't attribute to malice what could just as easily be explained by stupidity" still applies. For better or for worse. *shrug*
The inherent problem is that stupidity doesn't significantly make things better, especially since they are "out of touch." It really also doesn't help that people jumped to their defense for being a Japanese company, as though that somehow made any of this particularly more acceptable.
Well, yes, but I think it's jumping the gun a bit to go right to calling them "bigots" because of this. I can't say one way or the other whether Nintendo are bigoted or not, but saying stupid things and handling a sensitive situation in a poor manner doesn't automatically make them so.
 

Imp_Emissary

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May 2, 2011
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Dragonbums said:
Imp Emissary said:
Dragonbums said:
The gist of what I removed from Dragonbums post: Jim got the details of the bug wrong and some other stuff. Link below.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.849789.20988250


Nature of the full bug at IGN (of all fucking places to get things right.) http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/05/nintendo-on-gay-marriage-and-tomodachi-life

The gay coupling players saw in screenshots were not a result of the bug. It was a result of Japanese players dressing up their "female" characters as male character and having them romance each other.
Wait.
Did they have the female Miis romance each other, or did they have the female Miis dressed as guys romance male Miis?

Anyway.

Yeah, I heard about that too. Glad Jim made the rest of it more about what Nintendo said to calm people and about how it's still so "risky" to just include gay people in games.

Still a shame about the misinformation, though I think you may be letting it get to you a bit too much.
They had female Mii's look and sound like Male Mii's and had them marry each other that way (I also think they were able to eliminate the default dresses as well to make it a lot more real)
Ah. Odd.

Was that an actual part of the game, or where they just messing around with it?
Dragonbums said:
I know it's getting to me, but man, look at the most commented section of this site. Most of them are directly related to the misinformation spreading of this entire issue. With people calling Nintendo bigots. I'm getting tired of it.
:( Yeah, that's the internet[sub][sub][sub] (not using that as a dismissal, just saying I know and have seen what you're talking about).[/sub][/sub][/sub]

But Jim wasn't making that the whole focus of the episode and I'm sure he'd be happy to be corrected.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be upset. It's reasonable to be, when people are using incorrect information. Not just because it's annoying, but also because it makes the people using it look bad.

I know it can be hard, but ya got to try and keep a level head.
:D "Ya catch more flies with honey than ya do with salt." As they say. ;p
 

bdcjacko

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Jun 9, 2010
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Look, I'm all for gay marriage is games and real life. Just as long as we don't have gay divorce.
 

Dragonbums

Indulge in it's whiffy sensation
May 9, 2013
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Imp Emissary said:
Ah. Odd.

Was that an actual part of the game, or where they just messing around with it?
Based on the Direct that seems to be something you can do in game. You can transfers your current Mii's (and alter their voice) or make female/male Miis (depending on the relationship your going for) and have them look like the opposite sex- transfer them over to the game, adjust the voices accordingly and have yourself a good ol time.









But Jim wasn't making that the whole focus of the episode and I'm sure he'd be happy to be corrected.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be upset. It's reasonable to be, when people are using incorrect information. Not just because it's annoying, but also because it makes the people using it look bad.

I know it can be hard, but ya got to try and keep a level head.
:D "Ya catch more flies with honey than ya do with salt." As they say. ;p
The issue is that even if he was just focusing on the statement it reinforces the increasingly popular and very bad notion that if "If your not for us, your against us". Especially when it comes to clash with other regions and cultures that don't give a shit about Western ideals. In the case of Nintendo they make a game that is only for a Japanese audience. Japan is a place where gay marriage is illegal. As such it comes to no surprise that they don't put that feature in the game.
As for the statement itself the original statement before their "apology" statement was basically the same fucking thing. They weren't going to do it in this installment but they were going to do it in later installments.

I mean- where the fuck were these people when you couldn't have gay marriage in FE:Awakening? Seriously.
 

CaptainBill22

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Nov 18, 2009
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NightsOwl said:
So, pretty much what this is saying is that Gay relationships should be in any game with relationships by default now?

I agree. And I feel it should be the standard by now too. Even if I'm not gay myself or even if I am, I might get a bit of enjoyment seeing the main character of a game swing both ways. Really, it only helps make everyone happy, unless they're homophobic, which at that point, they can go shove it.

Inclusion of every party cannot hurt if it's a party that does no harm.
I have no problem with inclusion in games, It doesn't hurt anyone. To each their own. However there are still a great many cultures and people in this world that find homosexuality to be an abomination. At this point all inclusive relationships should NOT be default. It's as perfectly okay to be intolerant of same sex couples as it is to tolerate or support same sex couples as long as you don't act out on your prejudices.

Right now there are sectors of gay community who go out and attack people who do not support Gays. They mainly attack through social media and news outlets. The result is a call to boycott and/or public shaming, it's essentially a public lynching without a rope. This is discrimination and is just as wrong as a company firing an employee because they were gay.

Did Nintendo handle the situation poorly, yes. They could have made a statement that didn't ruffle so many feathers.
 

Vault Citizen

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May 8, 2008
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@ Jim, you've expressed exactly what I didn't like about Nintendo's response, now I don't have to say it myself. I suppose I should use this new found free time to watch more Jimquisition, lol.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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Jun 5, 2013
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Well the Japanese are horrifically homophobic, and while I'm at it, sexist, xenophobic, jingoistic and probably racist too.
Is ANYONE surprised by this? Seriously?!
This is the nation that brought us Mobile Fighter G Gundam, Faye Valentine, DBZ's Mr. Popo and a bazillion more offensive characters, stereotypes and caricatures.
I think it would have been more surprising if Nintendo HAD kept the gay marriage part.
 

Jandau

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Dec 19, 2008
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I remember playing the first Sims game with some friends around the time it came out. We were 15-16 years old, heterosexual highschool teenagers. We were messing around, having fun with the game and attemting to murder our neighbours. At some point, there was a misclick of some kind and one of our sims started making out with a dude. Our reacion was "Huh? ... Huh." followed by "Wouldn't think they'd put something like that into the game.", at which point we shrugged and moved on. We didn't care. Later, when we read that some people made an issue over this, we facepalmed. To us, this didn't even register as more than a passing curiosity and was hardly something worth mentioning. It's sad that 14 years later, a good chunk of the gaming world can't muster the same level of tolerance that a pack of 15-year old morons (which we pretty much were) had by default...
 

Trishbot

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Dragonbums said:
I mean- where the fuck were these people when you couldn't have gay marriage in FE:Awakening? Seriously.
Probably because a huge portion of that game involved reproducing with your loved one with your child inheriting both parents traits. How would you go about it with a gay marriage? Select a surrogate? Magic pregnancies? A Mass Effect Asari body meld?

They probably just didn't want to spend that much time on it.

Though... on Mass Effect... I don't mind gay relationships, and I applaud Mass Effect 3 for having them... but they were really awkward, poorly written, poorly animated... it was pretty embarrassing to sit through. If you're going to do it, do it right...