Jimquisition: Touch Waggle Touch Waggle Swipe
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
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Had to log back in to say indeed, thank god for you Jim. Now if only developers would listen. This episode really hit home for me as all the gimmicky tech-demo bullshit in Assassin's Creed Liberation is ruining the game for me. It would be pretty fun if it just let me play the actual Assassin's Creed gameplay, but every time I find myself really starting to get into it and really enjoy the game, it seems to say "Oh, we can't have that!" and makes me tilt the Vita to roll a ball into the center of a maze or point the back camera at a light source so I can spin a disc on the touch screen and I don't even know what the fuck the point of this one is supposed to be but it barely fucking works and pisses me off! It doesn't need to be in the game, and it happens right after another gimmicky thing where you have to swipe the front and back at the same time to open a letter (which, while stupid, doesn't piss me off nearly as much because at least it works, but having to completely change how I hold the Vita for it is still goddamn annoying).
Fuck you Ubisoft, I know that the Vita has a rear camera, I know it has a touch screen on the front and the back. Knock it the FUCK off and let me play some friggin' Assassin's Creed! (Yeah it pisses me off too, and the start of that video is pretty much why they don't allow me to have hammers anymore)
And also yes I am finally glad to know I'm not the only one who hated that Phantom Hourglass (and later, Spirit Tracks) were touch screen only. Every time I've complained about how inaccurate and sloppy it makes things I just get a torrent of "u just suck at teh gaym lrn 2 play nub" or crap like that from Zelda fanboys. I like Zelda too for the most part but when a game has a shitty control scheme, it has a shitty control scheme no matter what franchise name that I otherwise like is slapped on the title screen! It's okay to admit it people, hating two games with poor controls doesn't mean you have to hate the rest of the series!
Fuck you Ubisoft, I know that the Vita has a rear camera, I know it has a touch screen on the front and the back. Knock it the FUCK off and let me play some friggin' Assassin's Creed! (Yeah it pisses me off too, and the start of that video is pretty much why they don't allow me to have hammers anymore)
And also yes I am finally glad to know I'm not the only one who hated that Phantom Hourglass (and later, Spirit Tracks) were touch screen only. Every time I've complained about how inaccurate and sloppy it makes things I just get a torrent of "u just suck at teh gaym lrn 2 play nub" or crap like that from Zelda fanboys. I like Zelda too for the most part but when a game has a shitty control scheme, it has a shitty control scheme no matter what franchise name that I otherwise like is slapped on the title screen! It's okay to admit it people, hating two games with poor controls doesn't mean you have to hate the rest of the series!
Ironic coming from someone who repeated his complaint about hearing the same damn thing over and over three times in one post. The bold part would have been enough to get your point across. No need to make a hypocrite of yourself.TJC said:
Blowtorch? This isn't Ashens.freaper said:
A game that deserves props is "Shinobido: Revenge of Zen". Both of the Vita's touch pads are used as well as other gimmicks, but there are button combinations as well. For example, the grappling hook can be shot by aiming with the rear touch pad OR pressing R+X to throw it directly in front of you. Going the R+X method makes the grappling hook home onto a ledge automatically, but it's right or at least close enough 90% of the time. This is great because it gives you the touchy feely options and once you're done with that and need a proper control, it's there for you.
actually phantom hourglass had one of the smoother reasons to use the touch screen
since the d pad was not really good at expressing 360 degrees of movement, all of the older zeldas relied on 8 direction stuff (with only four directions of attack not counting the hard to aim diagonally seed shooters in the oracle games) that meant that you couldn't defend yourself as well between 90 degree angles which is kind of ridiculous
and then suddenly you had a simple way of locking onto enemies and directing yourself out of the way of danger in a specific direction that didn't require a thumbstick and you could easily hurl the boomerang at anything you wanted within a blink without relying on the 8 directions to align exactly with your opponent
the only real flaw that came up in the system was drawing the triforce on that one door and the fact that they totally put the wrong instructions for rolling in the game (which was later fixed in spirit tracks)
since the d pad was not really good at expressing 360 degrees of movement, all of the older zeldas relied on 8 direction stuff (with only four directions of attack not counting the hard to aim diagonally seed shooters in the oracle games) that meant that you couldn't defend yourself as well between 90 degree angles which is kind of ridiculous
and then suddenly you had a simple way of locking onto enemies and directing yourself out of the way of danger in a specific direction that didn't require a thumbstick and you could easily hurl the boomerang at anything you wanted within a blink without relying on the 8 directions to align exactly with your opponent
the only real flaw that came up in the system was drawing the triforce on that one door and the fact that they totally put the wrong instructions for rolling in the game (which was later fixed in spirit tracks)
This happens whenever there's new tech that developers want to play with. The idea is that the curiosity that people have of it will make people buy it. weather it belongs or not.
I remember when 3D (as in polygons) was the new thing, and every game had to be 3D even if the game franchise was previously 2D.
I remember when 3D (as in polygons) was the new thing, and every game had to be 3D even if the game franchise was previously 2D.
Another example of Vita touch screens used right: Disgaea 3.
The use of touch controls are only used to enhance the experience (a flick of your finger can make an inventory screen scroll faster, move the camera during battles, yadda, etc.), or to do silly things (you can flick characters in the hub-world and send them flying. lawl).
Anyway, good episode, Jim.
The use of touch controls are only used to enhance the experience (a flick of your finger can make an inventory screen scroll faster, move the camera during battles, yadda, etc.), or to do silly things (you can flick characters in the hub-world and send them flying. lawl).
Anyway, good episode, Jim.
However Jim, you forgot about horror games. They are meant to show you just how clever the developers are, as they reach inside your skull and make you feel molested on the inside.
I would say that with a game like Okami the move controller has been a god send (like Jim)... now if only there was a button to skip the MOUNTAINS of dialog I have to sit through before I get to play again.
That was a long 'un, but I was chuckling merrily through most of it. You hit the nail on the head, Jim, especially so far as the Vita is concerned. Hell, I was actually glad to find out the Persona 4 doesn't use the touch screens (save for two instances, which are just fine) at all: at least I know one game that I can play without worrying about awkward motions getting in the way of the fun. But the rest of my games? Yeah, touching gets annoying. Also, Little Deviants can go die in a fire.
I once read someone on this very forum write "if we stick to brick-with-buttons controllers then gaming will never move forward", and I felt like slapping them silly.
Brick-with-buttons controllers are to gaming what round wheels are to ground transport. You don't try to make the wheel SQUARE for the sake of innovation, you keep it round through thousands of years and eventually polish wheel technology to a mirror shine.
But did wheel technology stop the invention of flying vehicles? Of course not.
What I'm getting at with these analogies is that developers need to take some responsibility and make games GROUND-UP with motion/touchscreen controls in mind, the controls should compliment the game and enrich the experience. They should NOT make the player think "I wish I could just push a fucking button to do this" because the moment the player thinks that, the entire purpose of the new controls is defeated and the developers need to go back to the drawing board.
Golden rule of gaming input/controls: It's the GAMEPLAY that should challenge the player, not the fucking CONTROLS.
Brick-with-buttons controllers are to gaming what round wheels are to ground transport. You don't try to make the wheel SQUARE for the sake of innovation, you keep it round through thousands of years and eventually polish wheel technology to a mirror shine.
But did wheel technology stop the invention of flying vehicles? Of course not.
What I'm getting at with these analogies is that developers need to take some responsibility and make games GROUND-UP with motion/touchscreen controls in mind, the controls should compliment the game and enrich the experience. They should NOT make the player think "I wish I could just push a fucking button to do this" because the moment the player thinks that, the entire purpose of the new controls is defeated and the developers need to go back to the drawing board.
Golden rule of gaming input/controls: It's the GAMEPLAY that should challenge the player, not the fucking CONTROLS.
Excellent! I was looking for a new game for my Vita and your review has sold me. Thanks for the link!Jimothy Sterling said:
Sorry this is unrelated to the recent video at hand, but I noticed that, after randomly watching two Jimquisition videos, that both featured a track from the FF9 soundtrack. Not that I'm complaining mind, I'm quite happy to see music from one of my all-time favorites being featured in the videos, and I was amused that out of some random picks, both of them happened to feature such songs. I'm actually curious if this is an on-going thing here or if it was a just a funny coincidence.
You're right, but there is still a lot to be said for trying out new things. The problem with new input methods is when they are used as a replacement for existing tech in a situation where they do nothing to enhance the experience.Aaron Sylvester said:
For instance, Rise of Nightmares for Kinect had moments where you had to keep perfectly still in order to evade a hulking great blind monstrosity or where you had to cover your ears with your hands in order to avoid taking damage from a banshee-like enemy. Both of these things really helped to deepen the immersion of the game for me, as did using gestures to power up a device that then lets you essentially throw fireballs at enemies. That last one was just an awesome feeling. However, although I loved that game, there is no denying that the point where it let itself down was in the movement controls and the 'hold your hand over this icon to pick stuff up, open doors, etc' mechanic. If Kinect had a controller like the Wii Nunchuck then that problem would have been solved - traditional buttons could have been used in contexts where motion control was less efficient or just didn't make sense - for instance a simple trigger press to open doors or pick up items would have gone a long way to allowing people to actually enjoy what motion control brought to the table.
After all, to expand your wheel analogy, while of course we stuck to round wheels because they work, we used to attach them to bits of wood and pull them around with horses, and refusal to explore alternative control schemes in conjunction with the existing 'brick with buttons' controller would be the same as refusing to experiment with putting those wheels onto different things. I personally think that the Wii had a good idea but the base tech wasn't quite good enough (by the time Motion Plus was released it was too late really), PS Move had a lot of potential but is of course hampered by the fact that devs can't count on every user owning all the necessary peripherals that make it up (why on earth they didn't just come as a package is beyond me), and Kinect has a lot of potential that will never be realised due to a lack of synergy between a 2-handed controller and full body gesture control - they threw the baby out with the bath water by designing it to replace the controller rather than augment it.
I think the hardware manufacturers are gradually realising that 'cars must have wheels' and are integrating their alternate control methods into existing controller design. I personally think the Wii U looks promising, what with its 'this is a normal controller with all the buttons you've come to expect, but we've crammed everything (including the kitchen sink) into it too'.
