Jimquisition: Videogames Are Not Movies, Get Over It

[Syntax Error]

Destructoid is crossing over? What will happen to Niero?

 

[jboking]

Yes Heavy Rain is innovative, its branching narrative is much more extensive than the Blade Runner game I'm sure.

It handles branching narrative well, but tell me, does the killer ever change? Do the main conflicts?

And anyway, I think we're focusing a bit too specifically on the narrative aspect of it. Other aspects of Heavy Rain, like the darker themes (fatherhood, how far you'd go to save someone you love, drugs, etc...) show off what topics games can touch upon. It doesn't go too deep into those subjects, but I think it does them well enough (key word: well enough, not good, just okay). Whether it was successful in its message(s) to you or not I don't think matters as it still touches on those issues and it because of it, I suppose.

Dark themes are nothing new for video games. I can say that at least drugs and fatherhood have both been handled in the same game series, Bioshock. Bioshock also doesn't go too far into these subjects, but it does.

I dunno, I just think we can learn from anything, good or bad. Personally, I enjoyed Heavy Rain, though David Cage and his enormous ego can be a handful to say the least.

There's another reason why I'm glad Heavy Rain exists; If it didn't, many people wouldn't be motivated to prove how shit it is and one up Cage

Heavy Rain failed in a number of aspects, but the one that I think this article and most people are getting at is it's advertising campaign. Jim did make a good point that its great selling point was that it is "film quality." That kind of statement does imply that other games aren't 'film quality'(hence why HR is unique in their eyes) and also that 'film quality' is better than the typical 'video game quality.'

It makes it seem as though games are striving to be films, which neglects that video games have the potential to not only be very different from film, but much better than film in terms of the experience.

 

[Frozengale]

You guys really are a bunch of insular Yahtzee circle jerk offs as i heard. Have you guys ever been on another website?

Jim Sterling is a very opinionated individual, and whilst his presentation might be raw his opinions are always valid.

I like you. They don't realize their idol Yahtzee is just taking what people like and spitting in it's face for views. Jim believes what he is saying like it or not, which makes him more credible.

I love how there are dozens of people that have joined the site today just to tell us all that we are Yahtzee fan boys and piss all over us because we don't like the guy that they like.

First things first, Yahtzee isn't my idol, I would hope he isn't anyone's idol. He is a guy who is good at criticizing games, so yeah he takes what we like and exposes the flaws. It's almost like in the act of criticizing games he has become a Game Critic or something like that.

Second, what makes you think Yahtzee or any of the other contributors on the site don't believe what they are saying? It would seem kind of strange for these people to devote a large portion of their lives into doing something they don't believe in. Yahtzee started out on YouTube pointing out the flaws of games and giving them straight up reviews, this is what he did in his spare time for fun and he didn't expect it to become something he could make a living out of. Usually people don't waste their spare time doing things that gets people all angry and shout-y unless they believe in it.

Also just because Jim believes in what he is saying doesn't make him credible. Just like anyone else in the world (Yes even Yahtzee, ZOMG). Stop using your stupid double standards and please just leave.

 

[SkullCap]

Yay, a yahtzee and a movie bob hibred. cause that wont be troll feed.

Anyway, this one didnt impress me, but I dont like the argument. I'll have to wait and see with the next vid.

Trust me, Moviebob is a big enough troll.
Moviebob has transformed into an enormous hypocrite, which is a shame because his older reviews had neutral standpoints. I used to be a big fan of his reviews. Then something happened, the intelligent Bob Chipman went on vacation and was replaced with douchebag Bob Chipman; the other never returned. His older reviews were intelligent and informative, without the low blows to certain religions or people groups.

He insulted his fanbase for seeing films he didn't like and he never apologized for acting like a child rather than a supposedly professional critic. He mocks opposing viewpoints by showing images of idiots and repeating their arguments to insult their opinions even further. He ranted and called his fans "stupid sheep," the very same fans that got him his job on the Escapist. He was humbled by such fans, now he's extremely arrogant. His reviews now show no charisma, other than a lust for unbridled anger and ranting.

He bashed the action of the Expendables, but praised Piranha 3-D for the lesbianism, nudity, and gallons of blood. He encourages people to see films solely on the fact that they insult religious groups and beliefs; constantly using Christianity as a punching bag to take his deep-seated issues out on. I'm not a "religious" person in the traditional sense, but I do recognize when a critic stops reviewing a movie and pushes their own political viewpoint on their viewers. Where's the intelligence? The integrity? It's gone. Why? I've given up on Bob, he used to have a lot of fans, but after Piranha 3-D and his recommendation of Avatar: Last Airbender I distinctly remember many fans (including critics) write about how they would stop reading/watching any of Bob's future reviews. His fanbase largely consists of people who agree with him and man they just quote him on other sites and attack other critics for their opinions, because they differ from his. He actually wrote about how he wanted that to stop because it made him "look like a douche," which is exactly what the once-intelligent Bob "Moviebob" Chipman has become.
I don't hate him, I'm just ashamed for once being a fan.

You probably don't care and if you've made it this far reading my "troll" comment then your patience speaks volumes about your character. Shalom.

 

[Link_to_Future]

What is this I don't even...

Ok, so it seems like two of superpowers on the site are Moviebob and Extra Credits. So...we're combining it now? Bob's abrasiveness added to Extra Credits lite? I...I don't really know what to think.

I'll give this show a chance, but I'm not really optimistic about this one. We'll see if he grows on me.

 

[Lancer873]

Nice. I approve.

Only thing I really disagree with is your gripe with the "Steven Spielberg of gaming" thing. I see where you're coming from, but sometimes it's just an effective way of getting across a known point. I don't think we're doing Valve any disservice by calling them the Pixar of gaming, for example. We're just saying that they never release a bad game.

 

[Brainst0rm]

So...it's entertaining because he says "fuck" a lot?

'Cause, otherwise, I feel like I've missed the joke.

Not everything is supposed to be funny...

I agree completely, it's terrible the sense of entitlement that some people have.

That said, I don't see the point of an unpleasant, chubby British man saying things that I could hear put far more politely on any forum, anywhere. This man has no insight.

 

[Faux Furry]

What's all this, then? Whozis guy? It's like they decided to pressure Moviebob into talking like Yahtzee!

I'm just joshing with you, Jim!

Kidding aside, it looks like you'll have to re-earn your knighthood here, Sir Sterling.
Folks around here don't seem to much cotton to taking Destructoid's sloppy seconds when they've got a veritable buffett of Escapist originals to gorge (okay, heavily snack between more substantial fare)upon. Maybe you need a proper Jim-troduction video if you don't treat the whole thing as a spin-off. Maybe you can go for fancier visuals (perhaps an animated backgound scene related to whatever point you're currently going into detail about), a snappier wardrobe (as a work expense, no less), more elaborate scripts and even a quirky side-kick or two (one of whom should be a green bodied,red-eyed robot or cyborg). A cross-over with Anthony Burch Saves The World should definitely be on your to-do list.

It's high time to add some more style to that substance.

 

[scones_better]

Movie Bob already did this, in a much better, deeper, balanced way on the Game Over Thinker in "A Response to Roger Elbert".
You can check it out here:

http://gameoverthinker.blogspot.com/2010/05/episode-35-response-to-roger-ebert.html


This video was at least 3 minutes too long since he kept repeating the same argument. I have no problem with swearing, but it just felt like he was trying too hard. Just don't think he brings anything note worthy are developed enough. He's just venting really.

 

[Brainst0rm]

So...it's entertaining because he says "fuck" a lot?

'Cause, otherwise, I feel like I've missed the joke.

What joke?

OT: He's right. He also seems to be on cocaine, but he's right.

Especially about David Cage; that man is such an egotistical twat.

It might work better if he did videos in the style of Movie Bob (I'm aware of the irony given the subject), since:

a) Bob hasn't got a clue what he's talking about when he's let on to games ("no one wants to use a PC for gaming when they can buy 20 devices for £3000+, all with lesser functionality! That's the Big Picture!")

b) It feels rushed like this, and like I said, he seems to be on cocaine, which is a little unnerving to watch

There must have been a joke. Otherwise this is just embarrassingly awful. He's rude without being funny and preachy without being insightful. I swear I heard whistling as his comic sensibilities flew over my poor, uncivilized American head.

 

[thublihnk]

Could really work on his performance--especially the swearing. It never seems to be used in an impactful manner, just kinda thrown in there willy nilly. The whole thing is visually uninteresting, just the mere act of properly framing the camera would've helped that miles--just some basic rule of thirds stuff. And hey, something in the background. Getting a lapel mike would most likely help him--the handheld seems to just be holding him back, and for all that the audio really doesn't sound that great.

As far as the substance of the video... well, yeah. He's right, for the most part. But the argument is made of insubstantial points (throwing up The Room to highlight flaws in Hollywood? Yeah, real fair.)

But where I definitely disagree with him is in this absolute animosity that the games-r-art crowd have over any direction or influence that the games industry has from the film crowd. I'm a filmmaker, and I've studied a bit of film history and just because lazy journalists weren't declaring the need for 'the War and Peace of film' doesn't mean that the same sentiment wasn't applied. Film worked through many of the similar societal stigmas that video games did, film had similarly odd and unrelated roots to its current form. Film benefited from being influenced by novels, theater and still photography, a process that continues to this day (DSLRs are revolutionizing filmmaking as we speak)

Heavy Rain was a weird stumble in what most would consider to be the wrong direction, but video games aren't going to fall down some horrific hole because of it. Art is about influences, art is about taking a wide range of influences and melding it together into something that represents emotion, and screaming at an artist for fucking up and telling them they're wrong for thinking that way is unproductive and downright damaging.

 

[Ashcrexl]

jim sterling! YES!

for those who don't know jim sterling, i direct you to this article. http://www.destructoid.com/why-cave-story-is-the-worst-videogame-ever-169133.phtml

that is jim sterling folks. genius? madman? you decide!

just something to think about before you start criticizing jim sterling for being unoriginal and boring.

 

[PhunkyPhazon]

Wow, imagine my surprise seeing this HERE instead of over at Destructoid. Works for me, certainly. The only thing I'd suggest is the same thing I suggested when this show was brand spankin' new: it could use a little something else to spice it up. And mind you, the usage of a bunch of clips, background music, and pictures certainly shows some improvement. I think all that's left is to spruce up the background if at all possible.

Mind you though, Jim is the reason to watch this and it's plenty good as it is. His arguments are always well thought out and argued, even if I don't always agree.

Right. So Extra Credits is the show for people who want insightful and intelligent commentary, and this guy is for people who want a lot of dick jokes?

What does that make Zero Punctuation then? That's essentially just a giant barrage of dick jokes, and it's the most popular thing on the site.

Also, just one thing that's bothering me as I quickly glance through some of the comments. Have some of you seriously never heard a British accent before? For your own sakes people, pop in a movie, leave the house, watch some flippin' Monty Python. It's not good when a person can't stomach a typical British accent.

 

[Jumplion]

It handles branching narrative well, but tell me, does the killer ever change? Do the main conflicts?

Which one handles it well? The Blade Runner game or Heavy Rain? You're probably referring to the Blade Runner game. I don't think the killer remaining unchanging is that big of an issue, the story itself wouldn't have benefited from another opportunity to gain more holes, and the main conflicts do change depending on what happened before and whatnot.

Dark themes are nothing new for video games. I can say that at least drugs and fatherhood have both been handled in the same game series, Bioshock. Bioshock also doesn't go too far into these subjects, but it does.

As much as I loved Bioshock, I don't think it's really that good of an example mainly because it still centers around killing and violence. There's nothing wrong with that, and in all honesty it gets its points across better than Heavy Rain's, but if a game is still falling back on the old "shoot man in face" aspect of gameplay it's main points could be overshadowed by the action.

It's like saying that Modern Warfare 2 central theme is about the ever growing political-economic conflict between the US and Middle East as the reliance on them increases. Sure, it may have that theme, but it's overshadowed by the 'splosions and more 'splosions.

I'm not saying you can't have a deeper, more mature theme or whatever with action and such, but I would be interested to see how a political thriller game would turn out with little to no violence.

Heavy Rain failed in a number of aspects, but the one that I think this article and most people are getting at is it's advertising campaign. Jim did make a good point that its great selling point was that it is "film quality." That kind of statement does imply that other games aren't 'film quality'(hence why HR is unique in their eyes) and also that 'film quality' is better than the typical 'video game quality.'

Eh, PR talk to me. Uncharted, Mass Effect, and others have all be touted as "cinematic" and whatnot. I see it more as buzz words to get people hyped rather than the developer's philosophy.

It makes it seem as though games are striving to be films, which neglects that video games have the potential to not only be very different from film, but much better than film in terms of the experience.

There are certainly aspects of video games that can be used to elevate them above other mediums. Doesn't mean we can't learn a thing or two from those mediums.

Overall, I just like innovation of all kinds, even the "shitty" ones. I think we'll all just have to agree to disagree on that stance, so, yeah.

 

[Charli]

You used music from Final Fantasy Nine. I think we will get along just fine.

 

[Littlee300]

Wow, imagine my surprise seeing this HERE instead of over at Destructoid. Works for me, certainly. The only thing I'd suggest is the same thing I suggested when this show was brand spankin' new: it could use a little something else to spice it up. And mind you, the usage of a bunch of clips, background music, and pictures certainly shows some improvement. I think all that's left is to spruce up the background if at all possible.

Mind you though, Jim is the reason to watch this and it's plenty good as it is. His arguments are always well thought out and argued, even if I don't always agree.

Right. So Extra Credits is the show for people who want insightful and intelligent commentary, and this guy is for people who want a lot of dick jokes?

What does that make Zero Punctuation then? That's essentially just a giant barrage of dick jokes, and it's the most popular thing on the site.

Yahtzee also has extra punctuation and helps with extra consideration and the people who did it with Yahtzee are always agreeing with his points.

 

[alandavidson]

I understand the point and agree with it. But it's really a dead horse. And we already have this show on The Escapist, and it's done a lot better. It's called Extra Credits.

 

[PhunkyPhazon]

Wow, imagine my surprise seeing this HERE instead of over at Destructoid. Works for me, certainly. The only thing I'd suggest is the same thing I suggested when this show was brand spankin' new: it could use a little something else to spice it up. And mind you, the usage of a bunch of clips, background music, and pictures certainly shows some improvement. I think all that's left is to spruce up the background if at all possible.

Mind you though, Jim is the reason to watch this and it's plenty good as it is. His arguments are always well thought out and argued, even if I don't always agree.

Right. So Extra Credits is the show for people who want insightful and intelligent commentary, and this guy is for people who want a lot of dick jokes?

What does that make Zero Punctuation then? That's essentially just a giant barrage of dick jokes, and it's the most popular thing on the site.

Yahtzee also has extra punctuation and helps with extra consideration and the people who did it with Yahtzee are always agreeing with his points.

1. What does his agreement rate have to do with his main show being a bunch of dick jokes?

2. That's not true anyways, there's been plenty of disagreement in Extra Consideration. Motion controls? A good chunk of the subject matter in The Rest of the Story? [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extraconsideration/8749-Extra-Consideration-The-Rest-of-the-Story]

3. So does Yahtzee not exist at all outside of the internet? Does he never get into any disagreements with the people he works with simply because we aren't shown these moments?

4. Extra Punctuation has dick jokes too. Lots and lots of dick jokes.

 

[2-part Epoxy]

Ugh. No. Please, don't.

Forget biased reviewers & bloggers; this guy's schtick is an insult to video games. The tagline itself proclaims him "gaming's biggest douchebag," and Jim Sterling seems eager to merit the title. His arguments and ideas are ones I've heard before, but I like them so much better when they are presented an eloquent and thought-provoking way, which is not what happens here. Here, I am reminded of a smug kid sniping about how stupid his parents are, whose mirrored shades are probably supposed to be cool and distinctive (oh god don't even get me started). Am I supposed to empathize with this?

Escapist, please let this be the last in a series. I am already perplexed that it was the first. Why would I or anyone want to listen to a douchebag? I already do that more often than I'd like. Giving this guy a platform is faintly demeaning to everyone involved.

Remember a short lesson in the spirit of this topic: The Internet is not Reality TV. Please keep it that way.

 

[TiefBlau]

You guys really are a bunch of insular Yahtzee circle jerk offs as i heard. Have you guys ever been on another website?

Jim Sterling is a very opinionated individual, and whilst his presentation might be raw his opinions are always valid.

I like you. They don't realize their idol Yahtzee is just taking what people like and spitting in it's face for views. Jim believes what he is saying like it or not, which makes him more credible.

Uh, no.

Believe it or not, outside of this little microcosm they call The Escapist, a large percentage, perhaps even majority of gamers disagree with Yahtzee. But he has such a large fanbase because he's a) Funny, and b) He's well-founded in his beliefs. He's actually fairly radical, but he makes his views reasonable such that even if we outright disagree with him, we can still see where he's coming from. He can reason out why he doesn't like RTS's, or why he doesn't believe a game should stand alone on multiplayer, and I, a Starcraft 2 fanatic, can still understand his perspective.

This guy, on the other hand, is just a jackass. It's not that he can't reason his views so much as he just doesn't, and his entire argument is founded on blatant overreaction to some letter the makers of Heavy Rain made. He's literally extrapolating everything they say. "Hollywood-style budget? Clearly this means you think games are inferior to movies." "Movie-quality script? What, too good for gaming dialogue?" He's as subtle as a cock in the mouth, and he's clearly just using Heavy Rain as a strawman for the entire industry. This isn't "calling it as I sees it" so much as it is "calling it as I feel like calling it because fuck you".

Also, fun fact, did you know that Yahtzee has repeatedly stated this little-known fact that video games aren't movies and shouldn't attempt to be? This "safe" critic that you say panders to the audiences has on multiple occasions rehashed this perspective of your very treasured video gaming "radical". In fact, that was pretty much the topic of the Ghostbusters review. What a coincidence? Could it be that such an "opinionated" individual and such a "generic" individual aren't so different in perspective after all?

No, the only way they are different are in how they argue their points, and in that regard this guy utterly fails.