Jimquisition: When The Starscreams Kill Used Games

[1337mokro]

This is almost complete utter bullshit. 2$ per game? Try 12$ per game. No store would ever in their entire life agree to a deal where the publisher keeps 96% of the retail price. The much more realistic division is that the retailer gets 20% of the cut so about 12$ on a 60$ console game and 10$ on any PC game. If a store makes 4$ for every PS3 sold they would not sell the PS3 again the 20% mark up is a much more logical sale. Where the store keeps between 40-50$ for each Xbox or at least that for PS3 or more.

It is impossible for there to only be a 4% retail share especially when you can get brand new games for 35$ online. This would mean that NO profit is made if we still assume the same ridiculous 4%. Because 4% of 35$ is about 1,4$. Not even if you sold a few thousand copies could you keep a store afloat with that margin, not even on the internet.

Are publishers money grubbing whores who despite moving to digital sales and cutting out the retailers will still charge you 60$ or more? YES! We see it on Steam where the publisher essentially dictates the price rather than the store. Does that mean we have to now jump to the defense of those same retailers who would gladly rip you off and undercut you when you come to sell your used games? Those same retailers who will still charge you that 60$ rather than take a stand against publishers along side you?

It's two evils. Two giant demonic beings that eat money and never have enough. We should support neither of those. Not even in the hopes that one kills the other. As customers we should support ourselves and our own rights. Both the retailer and the publisher be damned.

Here is a simple way of giving them both the finger. Whenever a dev self-publishes support it if you can and/or like the game. The more we reward self publishing, crowd funding or other ways of making enough money for good games the less we need both the retailers and he publishers and the sooner they will both die.

 

[webkilla]

Good video there Jim

What I'm thinking is that if Microsoft is trying to pull a 'Steam' with the Xbox One, aiming for cheaper digital game sales (which as Jim points out, might not even happen anyway) then Microsoft is missing a big point when it comes to console games

With PC games the age of simply popping a CD in and playing a game... that pretty much never happened.

With consoles that very literal plug and play attitude was the rule for a VERY long time - and still is for quite a lot of mobile devices (I'm looking at you DS)

Now, that they'll allow you to play your own console game on other people's consoles if you're logged in - that's nice, again that's the steam feature - but it's still adding a layer of inconvenience to players. If two people switch between games owned by each of them, they'll have to log in and out all the time. That's annoying.

Equally, not letting you borrow games from your friends - well - I know a number of console gamers who prefer to try a game first, say by borrowing it from a friend, then choosing whether to invest in their own copy or not.

That, and there's the internet thing: If you need to connect online to verify that you, the buyer of the game, playing, then how's that going to work in households where the console is hooked up to the living room TV? Not all houses have internet cable jacks in the living room. This puts a whole new structural requirement to homeowners - and I for think that it'll annoying and put off people quite a bit.

 

[JaymesFogarty]

If retailers get $2 for every $60 game sold, then whey aren't digital sales $58 because the middleman has been cut out *scratches head*

Oh wait I know the answer!

I don't know about services like Origin, but most of the PC games that I've seen either retail at £30, or £35, which in dollars is at least $7 off of $60. I thought games on PC (probably just Steam at that) were notorious for always being £10 less than retail console games?

 

[Winnosh]

People who see this as an excuse to shop at GameStop seem to also miss part of the argument about Monopoly. Gamestop is bad for the consumer because of high priced used games and low resale. Go to private game sellers in your town to get your used games. Back when there was Funcoland and other stores there was more comppetition but it's still there if you look for it.

What Microsoft and possibly Sony are planning would force GameStop to be pretty much the ONLY place to get used games and this would kill the last of these mom and pop stores.

 

[Annihilist]

Not only that but Valve realised that dropping prices down meant a HUGE increase in sales and overall profits. Companies like Microsoft and EA are only looking at the short term gains. They're basically The Once-ler from The Lorax, cutting down the Truffula trees to make a tidy buck right up until the last tree is felled.

Especially given the games are digitally distributed and cost little-to-nothing to produce, in which case there's no excuse to not drop prices.

I'm in Australia where new games consistently retail for $80-$110 - even in the period where our dollar was higher than the USD. For this reason, I hardly buy new games. And if they're stamping out used games, I guess I won't be buying any more games.

And fuck the new consoles. I'm buying a PS2 as soon as I can.

 

[xPixelatedx]

I like how so many are vocal about BC not being "that important" in all these escapists threads. It gives me the opportunity to turn the tables sand say neither are used games. After all, as someone who hates to get scratched, ugly games with no boxes, I rarely if ever get games used. I also do enough research about every purchase I make to know if I want it or not, and if I do I get it new. I certainly don't buy any games I plan to get rid of, either, so a lack of used games doesn't bother ME in the least. [sarcasm]So why should anyone else care!?[/sarcasm]

The Irony is delicious.

 

[seditary]

I always stand by my idea of used game sales:

Make a game people will want to keep.

Too bad this doesn't occur very often these days.

 

[MeanCat]

It's just getting better and better, isn't it? But I agree with Jim here, Gamestop is getting shit all the time but they are not as bad as claimed by most people, same goes for the even smaller game shops those that likely will get shut down because of EAs and MS' greed. Hopefully Sony doesn't foolow MS' lead or I can't see me buying either of their consoles, ever. :/

 

[Tribalism]

The death of the used game market is a bad thing for consoles for a reason I rarely see pointed out elsewhere. I'm going to make an assumption that the high street game stores such as Gamestop and Game rake in a decent amount of the total sales for a game. It's safe to say that IPs live and die by the success of previous titles in the series. In a world with no used games (I'm aware the Xbox One allows games to be sold on), game retailers such as Game will have a much more limited stock. There will be no "used game" section and to push the biggest profit margin possible, the most accessible game stores will only have the last 6 months of game releases. There might be "fringe" gaming stores which primarily stock older games, but they will be a minority.

The consequence of this? Less consumer interest is garnered for an IP once it stops being sold as "new". Some people, like myself, go into a game store for the sake of browsing and interacting with the staff. I like to get an opinion on some of the more knowledgeable staff members on games to try. I've bought used games on a whim because they're cheap and they've got me interested in series I might never have even considered playing. I know I'm not the only one to think this way and while I don't contribute to the developers with my initial purchase of most games, if the game is fun enough, I'll be first in line for a brand new copy of the sequel.

The same goes for rented games. Never would have played Dark Chronicle without that service. Developers don't realise that even if they don't make a sale, exposing their products to a large audience is not a bad thing. A lot of indie developers openly state they don't mind piracy since it's essentially free advertising at the cost of a sale. Unless the developers have no faith in their product, there's no reason to be frightened of more people playing it. Many people who buy used will not buy games brand new. THOSE are lost sales, not in this product, but the sequels to it. Cutting out that part of the market is shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[Oskuro]

They debunked piracy as a cause for bad sales? I must have missed that

Plenty of games have come out lately that could not be pirated during the first crucial sales weeks. An old example would be Assassins Creed 2 with it's always-only drm scheme. Another would be recent Origin titles, like Battlefield 3.

Despite that, there wasn't a sales spike for these games, and I'm under the impression that some (Bf3) underperformed.

This, of course, has been glossed over or outright ignored, but if blocking pirates during those crucial release dates has no effect on sales... Then maybe piracy wasn't such a problem?

 

[Dragonbums]

It's rare that I buy a game at full price.
Aside from the games that I know will be quality like Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and Layton; I just don't bother sinking in $60.00 for a game. It's just too much lately, and yet publishers and developers have the nerve to whine about us when we don't buy their overpriced games.

Also Jim you forgot to add in the fact that Nintendo is notorious for not lowering the price of their games. EVER.
Literally, the only time I get a cheap Nintendo game is when it's used and at Gamestop.
Mario Kart 7 has been out for ages now, and it's still priced at $35.00 new. Heck even Pokemon Black and White are still priced at $35.00, and they finally dropped the prices of Diamond/Pearl/and Platinum to a whopping $30.00. It's ridiculous.
Of course that is a small complaint seeing as how Nintendo has been doing everything right in terms of what a Game console is this generation, and their heads aren't so far up their ass they can't get it out.

 

[Pyrokinesis]

The sad part is there is a decreasing number of targets for the publishers "blame list". Next in line is "Lets Plays are making people not buy games", Then of-course attempt to kill piracy (attempt #544), Then Gun lobbyist, Then Competition is killing gamesales, Last but not least "Steam sales are spoiling the console market".

 

[Assassin Xaero]

What I thought about recently, was if there is anti-used game protection, to where you can't rent or borrow, how much money are the publishers/developers ultimately going to lose? Think how many copies of the game are bought from Redbox, retail stores that rent movies, Gamefly, and everywhere else that has game rentals. And I doubt the people who rent games for a few dollars to play it once are then going to drop $60 to buy it to play it once.

 

[KiKiweaky]

Another great video Jim I lold hard at origin being represented by a turd ^_^

Steam sales are great but I generally prefer to buy a retail copy of new games for 2 reasons.

1. With the disk you don't have to download the games via Steam which on launch day can be problematic as 2 or 3 million people are trying to do the same thing and your connection can be dropped not to mention the file sizes... Rome II is going to be 30 GB that would take me a day or two to download.

2. I like to have the box and manual to hand, digital is all well and good but I prefer to have the physical object.

Another thing with Steam sales and I'm sure its not just me how many people have actually installed and played every single game they have in their Steam library? I have quite a few I got in a bundle for no other reason than I wanted one game and got 2 or 3 others I didn't have much interest in for next to nothing.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

I always stand by my idea of used game sales:

Make a game people will want to keep.

Too bad this doesn't occur very often these days.

Could be one thing, though hard to achieve.

I think the most obvious thing to take from the success of Steam sales is that people are willing to pay what they're willing to pay, not what you'd like them to. It's simple, it's obvious. If any publishers are thinking I'm going to spend more than the current asking price, when I'm already annoyed with the current asking price... they're mistaken.

Games are cool, but they're competing with the bargain that is netflix these days. Since I've had Netflix, my game purchasing has crashed. £40 quid for a game that I may be bored with in no time at all, if I like it much to start with... and that deppreciates dramatically in value immediately, or £6 a month for unlimited streaming?

Easy call. I know where my entertainment money is going.

 

[Lightknight]

Wait, people believe that pc games don't have used copies for what reason? Are people not aware of Amazon and other such companies that clearly have disk versions of pc games still? Am I the only one that has been known to click on the used option?

 

[kmg90]

Thank you, Jim.

I read that same article when it was posted & my jaw literally dropped

Thank you again for an impressive & important counterpoint

Yep, I actually valued and cherished Penny Arcade's Report articles they have provided a numerous reports on some of the lesser addressed problems of the industry (Microsoft raking in boat loads of cash from paying customers via ads and other things).


After reading that article, all the respect and integrity turned to the shit, like the turd that represented origin in the in the video.

 

[Zukabazuka]

The different with used games compared to other product is that the game is always the same no matter how long its been between the use. Then buying used stuff from other areas they are not often bought at the place you originally bought it from. Its usually a business entirely focused on second hand sale.

Any major car shop are only selling car that's brand new. Because if they would buy used car, they would have to clean it, fix any damage, and be sure its valid for road. Its not the same for all of them but for most it is.

Now for used games, the problem is actually right at the shop where they sell the product. You have a person come in pick a new copy, go to the counter and that person is pretty much told to say "We have a used copy, its cheaper by 5-10? compared to new, do you want that version" If they have the game in store.
Just like that they pretty much lost the sale if not the person knew that second hand gives zero money to the developers and decide to buy new to support the game. The store that is supposed to sell your "new" game is actually trying not to and try to sell their own copies of the game before doing that.

How many other stores have you people been in that pretty much tell you they have an used product of the same one you are about to buy?