JRPG lovers unite
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Humm...even if they did originate from a singular form...they're still distinct enough these days to warrant separate classification aren't they?
Okay, if not that, than Eastern and Western RPGs maybe? From what I've seen, although there are exceptions, in 'general' Eastern style RPG's tend towards flashy visuals and heavy characterisation (such as it is in -some- of them)with regards to their main protaganists/allies. Western examples tend towards...I guess you could say the mundane?
Where Eastern style RPG's are often bombastic, bright and free with their use of color, Western RPGs tend to go more with 'real' or muted colors, or to be more specific, take Oblivion, that's actually quite a colorful game, but it's tones still go together more naturally as to emulate a kind of real word aesthetic. Now, take an Eastern style like Eternal Sonata, or any of the Final Fantasy's from 9 and up. Bright, bold, stand out colors.
But, that's not to say that -all- Eastern style RPG's are bright bubblegum colors and -all- Western style RPG's are -all- muck grey n' green. There are exceptions as always. And, I'm still rather fond of Eternal Sonata's bright and cheery palette, and enjoy the everpresent brown grit and grime that almost envelops games like Fallout and S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
As for characterisation. With Eastern, characters in the main I guess, have a generally layed out script that they will with few exceptions follow. Some games do offer choice when playing through the story, but that often consists of simple yes or no actions, although I've seen one or two that go into a little more detail.
Western RPG's tend to leave the main char as something of a blank slate, oh, he may have a history, friends and family etc. like the Eastern style char, but he is essentially faceless, or rather, it's up to the player to fill in the rest. In this, it is also in the player's interactions that the player's char is defined. This, seems most often to take the form of the almost ubiquitous 'chat box' style of conversation trees. Something akin to a choose your own adventure book I guess. In this regard however, the Eastern sytle RPGs can sometimes be better at holding a structure for it's plot, rather then risk losing the plot completely and having the player go off doing something they find more interesting in the game. Which, considering games like Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights I was wont to do myself, and actually wonder if they would have been so good with -only- the main storyline holding them up.
Still...
Okay, if not that, than Eastern and Western RPGs maybe? From what I've seen, although there are exceptions, in 'general' Eastern style RPG's tend towards flashy visuals and heavy characterisation (such as it is in -some- of them)with regards to their main protaganists/allies. Western examples tend towards...I guess you could say the mundane?
Where Eastern style RPG's are often bombastic, bright and free with their use of color, Western RPGs tend to go more with 'real' or muted colors, or to be more specific, take Oblivion, that's actually quite a colorful game, but it's tones still go together more naturally as to emulate a kind of real word aesthetic. Now, take an Eastern style like Eternal Sonata, or any of the Final Fantasy's from 9 and up. Bright, bold, stand out colors.
But, that's not to say that -all- Eastern style RPG's are bright bubblegum colors and -all- Western style RPG's are -all- muck grey n' green. There are exceptions as always. And, I'm still rather fond of Eternal Sonata's bright and cheery palette, and enjoy the everpresent brown grit and grime that almost envelops games like Fallout and S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
As for characterisation. With Eastern, characters in the main I guess, have a generally layed out script that they will with few exceptions follow. Some games do offer choice when playing through the story, but that often consists of simple yes or no actions, although I've seen one or two that go into a little more detail.
Western RPG's tend to leave the main char as something of a blank slate, oh, he may have a history, friends and family etc. like the Eastern style char, but he is essentially faceless, or rather, it's up to the player to fill in the rest. In this, it is also in the player's interactions that the player's char is defined. This, seems most often to take the form of the almost ubiquitous 'chat box' style of conversation trees. Something akin to a choose your own adventure book I guess. In this regard however, the Eastern sytle RPGs can sometimes be better at holding a structure for it's plot, rather then risk losing the plot completely and having the player go off doing something they find more interesting in the game. Which, considering games like Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights I was wont to do myself, and actually wonder if they would have been so good with -only- the main storyline holding them up.
Still...
My childhood is FF VII, VII and IX. These games have had a massive impact on me. I wouldn't be the same without them.
WRPGs don't work yet, as the technology isn't there to give true freedom, so all you get is a façade. JRPGs don't bother with all this freedom nonsense - they just emotionally engage you with a fantastic story, the likes of which no other medium can manage.
To be honest, if I played 7, 8 or 9 now, with no previous contact, I probably wouldn't be that impressed. but then, I'd be a different person. It's a philosophical conundrum all right!
WRPGs don't work yet, as the technology isn't there to give true freedom, so all you get is a façade. JRPGs don't bother with all this freedom nonsense - they just emotionally engage you with a fantastic story, the likes of which no other medium can manage.
To be honest, if I played 7, 8 or 9 now, with no previous contact, I probably wouldn't be that impressed. but then, I'd be a different person. It's a philosophical conundrum all right!
THANK YOU. When people complain about the "lack of freedom" in JRPG's they obviously forget that one most important aspect of them. If I wanted total freedom I will play an MMO. JRPG's are the same as books, and movies, that's how they are supposed to work. It's why I love them so much.OurGloriousLeader said:
Well, I enjoy JRPG's, as long as the characters are good and somewhat relatable, and the story can drag me in by the .
FFVII, FFVII:CC, FFIX & the Tales of XXX series would be my favorites, since they each have a really good story, a nice rounded assortment of characters which you can relate to on some level, and they allow you to immerse youself in the game without a second thought.
FFVIII, FFX & FFX-2 are on my DO NOT PLAY list, since the characters "quirks" distract you too much from the gaming experience and the story.
So all in all, JRPG's, they are as good the game your playing. And if you are one of those genre loving people who think that only their genre is great and everyelse is crap, here is some advice from me to you:
"No genre is perfect. each one has their good bits and bad bits. So just play the best from each area and you'll never get bored of games, never complain about games, and never waste money on games which you'll most likely hate anyway but fool youself into thinking that you like it because it's from you genre of choice."
FFVII, FFVII:CC, FFIX & the Tales of XXX series would be my favorites, since they each have a really good story, a nice rounded assortment of characters which you can relate to on some level, and they allow you to immerse youself in the game without a second thought.
FFVIII, FFX & FFX-2 are on my DO NOT PLAY list, since the characters "quirks" distract you too much from the gaming experience and the story.
So all in all, JRPG's, they are as good the game your playing. And if you are one of those genre loving people who think that only their genre is great and everyelse is crap, here is some advice from me to you:
"No genre is perfect. each one has their good bits and bad bits. So just play the best from each area and you'll never get bored of games, never complain about games, and never waste money on games which you'll most likely hate anyway but fool youself into thinking that you like it because it's from you genre of choice."
I am not a JRPG lover but I will concede The Paper Mario games Are among the best games I have ever played. (64 version only)
I had a very meh experience with Final Fantasy. Most of them, I've never been able to finish. The first FF I ever played was Mystic Quest; that redheaded stepchild of the series fans generally pretend didn't exist. I didn't finish it, because my rental time ran out.
II (IV in Japan) suffered from severe Ending Fatigue. Somewhere around the dungeon with all the doors that turn into monsters that can one hit kill you, I just stopped caring. The game was too long, the dungeons too repetitive, and the story was not compelling enough to keep my attention.
-SPOILERS-
III (VI in Japan) started getting old in the World of Ruin, there was almost nothing to do besides look for the missing party members. To the game's credit, you dont HAVE to look for all of them, but I'm pretty sure you'd be severely under-leveled come time to fight the final boss. But that's not the reason I didn't finish. No, the reason I didn't finish was because the game crapped out on me right in the Final Dungeon, and the cartridge got corrupted. I was so pissed. Maybe I'll finish it on an emulator some day.
VII was hands down my favorite. Not only did I actually finish it, I played though the whole game at least 15 times since. It was paced excellently, and I never really felt like the game was dragging. The story was okay, if convoluted. I still don't think I understand all of it. Also, A lot of the late 2nd Disc seems tacked on, but it didn't kill the game. And a lot of the Summon magic is just ridiculous. The final boss has a summon that, after a 6 minutes long cutscene, blows up the sun...and he can do it more than once in the same battle.
VIII was just terrible. The main character killed the game for me. After about 5 hours, I couldn't take his Wangst anymore, and never touched the game again.
Other than FF7, the only Eastern RPGs I've been favorable to was Super Mario RPG (One of the greatest Mario titles, EVER), and The Legend of Zelda series, but I'm not sure if that counts.
Oh, and Pokemon. But only Red, Blue, and Yellow. Back before they ran the franchise into the ground. I don't care what anyone says, there's only 151 pokemon...(and Pluto is still a planet...and Han shot first, etc.).
II (IV in Japan) suffered from severe Ending Fatigue. Somewhere around the dungeon with all the doors that turn into monsters that can one hit kill you, I just stopped caring. The game was too long, the dungeons too repetitive, and the story was not compelling enough to keep my attention.
-SPOILERS-
III (VI in Japan) started getting old in the World of Ruin, there was almost nothing to do besides look for the missing party members. To the game's credit, you dont HAVE to look for all of them, but I'm pretty sure you'd be severely under-leveled come time to fight the final boss. But that's not the reason I didn't finish. No, the reason I didn't finish was because the game crapped out on me right in the Final Dungeon, and the cartridge got corrupted. I was so pissed. Maybe I'll finish it on an emulator some day.
VII was hands down my favorite. Not only did I actually finish it, I played though the whole game at least 15 times since. It was paced excellently, and I never really felt like the game was dragging. The story was okay, if convoluted. I still don't think I understand all of it. Also, A lot of the late 2nd Disc seems tacked on, but it didn't kill the game. And a lot of the Summon magic is just ridiculous. The final boss has a summon that, after a 6 minutes long cutscene, blows up the sun...and he can do it more than once in the same battle.
VIII was just terrible. The main character killed the game for me. After about 5 hours, I couldn't take his Wangst anymore, and never touched the game again.
Other than FF7, the only Eastern RPGs I've been favorable to was Super Mario RPG (One of the greatest Mario titles, EVER), and The Legend of Zelda series, but I'm not sure if that counts.
Oh, and Pokemon. But only Red, Blue, and Yellow. Back before they ran the franchise into the ground. I don't care what anyone says, there's only 151 pokemon...(and Pluto is still a planet...and Han shot first, etc.).
My favorite game of all time is Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne its long and has a ton of variety to it. It also has multiple endings as most rpgs do, which I like. Almost all of the SMT series are great games The art style and mood is fantastic and the enemies/allies are almost all lifted from legends and lore from around the world.
I had thought that the difference between western and eastern RPGs pretty much boiled down to the power afforded to the protagonist. If they're some kind of demigod that will slaughter all opposition while your teamates stand around trying not to die, it's a western RPG. If your protagonist is on the same level as the rest of your party, and being without said party would make the game a good deal more impossible, it's a JRPG. The quality of the storyline, characters, combat system are all too subjective to subcatagorise with. And, really, an uninspired plot, two-dimensional characters, and a horrible combat system are all issues any game can have, regardless of genre, origin, or inspiration.
Really, I'm finding it difficult to think of a game that disproves this theory. Hell, the only reason I use such classifications, is that it fits with the different concepts of "strength" in each culture. What was it, there was an article a while back [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_145/4631-Every-Little-Thing-She-Does-is-Magic.2] that touched on that (third paragraph onwards). Western strength being more to do with building up individual power, and eastern strength generally focusing more on teamwork, and partnerships, and the like.
Anyhow, I like JRPGs. I find that I enjoy them the most. Screw "intricate plotlines" or "deep characters", I actually quite like turn-based-fighting systems consisting solely of a series of menus and health bars. Then again, I mostly play SRPGs, but what the hell.
As for actual titles... I spent around ten hours on FFXII. Thought it was meh. I have much love for Skies of Arcadia and Golden Sun, tho'. And I regularly carry an engagement ring around with me in case I meet someone who knows of the existence of Makai Kingdom.
Really, I'm finding it difficult to think of a game that disproves this theory. Hell, the only reason I use such classifications, is that it fits with the different concepts of "strength" in each culture. What was it, there was an article a while back [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_145/4631-Every-Little-Thing-She-Does-is-Magic.2] that touched on that (third paragraph onwards). Western strength being more to do with building up individual power, and eastern strength generally focusing more on teamwork, and partnerships, and the like.
Anyhow, I like JRPGs. I find that I enjoy them the most. Screw "intricate plotlines" or "deep characters", I actually quite like turn-based-fighting systems consisting solely of a series of menus and health bars. Then again, I mostly play SRPGs, but what the hell.
As for actual titles... I spent around ten hours on FFXII. Thought it was meh. I have much love for Skies of Arcadia and Golden Sun, tho'. And I regularly carry an engagement ring around with me in case I meet someone who knows of the existence of Makai Kingdom.
I used to play a lot of JRPGs-- been finding fewer and fewer that can manage to hold my interest, but I try to reserve my judgment on them until I've actually played the game.
Ever since I first played Final Fantasy VI, I was hooked. JRPGs hold a special place in my heart because they present me with (mostly) relatable characters (I loved Squall's personality, I was very similar to him at the time) and a story that I want to see through to the end. Over the years, the FF series has died down for me and I began exploring new avenues like; Wild ARMs, Breath of Fire and Nippon Ichi's Strategy games. But everything changed for me one day when I saw a certain game, that game was Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne/Lucifer's Call. That game was brilliant.
The Megami Tensei series has (at least for me) showed that JRPGs can be orginal, have mature themes and have unbelievable storylines. Who didn't feel something when the Demi-Fiend had to choose friendship or a new world order in Lucifer's Call/Noturne? Truly brilliant. As for the turn based stuff, I actually prefer it. You can think about your moves and think ahead to trap the enemy, I find it more satisfying.
What really grates my cheese is when people condem JRPGs, telling me I'm wasting my time and I should play something western made. To those I say; let us have our games, we enjoy them if you don't well then that's fine, but don't tell me what I should like or dislike. If I want to play as Blue-Haired Teen Brat over Barbarian 24 then that's my chose, sheesh.
The Megami Tensei series has (at least for me) showed that JRPGs can be orginal, have mature themes and have unbelievable storylines. Who didn't feel something when the Demi-Fiend had to choose friendship or a new world order in Lucifer's Call/Noturne? Truly brilliant. As for the turn based stuff, I actually prefer it. You can think about your moves and think ahead to trap the enemy, I find it more satisfying.
What really grates my cheese is when people condem JRPGs, telling me I'm wasting my time and I should play something western made. To those I say; let us have our games, we enjoy them if you don't well then that's fine, but don't tell me what I should like or dislike. If I want to play as Blue-Haired Teen Brat over Barbarian 24 then that's my chose, sheesh.
I think both Western and JRPGs are their ups and downs.
JRPGs tend to be longer with more enviornment variation and slower paced turn-based battles which are fun if the slower speed is compensated by more complex intellect required. My biggest problems with them are the random battles that are so easy you only have to hit the X or A button a million times, lots of grinding at points, and less story/character variety(many JRPGs usually recycle similar stories).
I like both types of RPGs equally(Mass Effect or Tales of Symphonia, cant decide), but I think that the two biggest turn-offs for non-JRPG fans are the slow random battles(compared to real time combat in most Westerns) and the anime like feel for those who dont like anime.
This post may not be all that well structured, but its late and i'm tired.
JRPGs tend to be longer with more enviornment variation and slower paced turn-based battles which are fun if the slower speed is compensated by more complex intellect required. My biggest problems with them are the random battles that are so easy you only have to hit the X or A button a million times, lots of grinding at points, and less story/character variety(many JRPGs usually recycle similar stories).
I like both types of RPGs equally(Mass Effect or Tales of Symphonia, cant decide), but I think that the two biggest turn-offs for non-JRPG fans are the slow random battles(compared to real time combat in most Westerns) and the anime like feel for those who dont like anime.
This post may not be all that well structured, but its late and i'm tired.
Am i the only one that thinks mass effect sucked? I liked kotor 1 and even kotor 2 a hella lot better than mass effect. That stupid wheel didn't make anything easier. It made them HARDER. A lot of people say its innovative. Whats so innovative about a wheel where you have to guess and hope for the best?
/rant
KOTOR1, And KOTOR2 are real examples of WRPG's. Fallout 3 another good WPRG. See a trend here? Most WRPG's don't have you doing the same thing over and over again. Hell i played KOTOR1&2 atleast 5 times each because it felt differnt each time. Coudn't say the same for JRPGs.
Dunno what i'm getting at. Maybe that i like WRPGS better then JRPGS
/rant
KOTOR1, And KOTOR2 are real examples of WRPG's. Fallout 3 another good WPRG. See a trend here? Most WRPG's don't have you doing the same thing over and over again. Hell i played KOTOR1&2 atleast 5 times each because it felt differnt each time. Coudn't say the same for JRPGs.
Dunno what i'm getting at. Maybe that i like WRPGS better then JRPGS
Well I have hearded good things about KOTOR, but sence its a Star Wars game, I decided to play other things. I'm not saying its bad, I just dont want to try it or support a franchise I think should be replaced. Star Wars is good, but enough is enough.Bulletinmybrain said:
I'm a long time fan of JRPG's been playing them since i was a young lad who didn't know a thumb stick from the A button. Anyway i started off with Zelda, Breath of Fire, and Final Fantasy 1. I still love those games, Final Fantasy i have loved all my life and will continue to think number seven is god due to the amazing story. I have played many great JRPG's and some not so great *cough* new ones for the next gen systems *cough*. Some of my favorites are the Final Fantasy series, even though the lastest ones the main characters look like women, Breath of Fire series, Wild Arm series, Kingdom Hearts, The Tales of series, and Chrono Trigger. I recomend all of these. I just ordered Disgaea Hour of Darkness off amazon since i heard good things about it.
As a long time gamer i have played a multitude of games all ranging from different types, chances are you name a genre i can name a game i have played and beaten of it. I feel JRPG's are the best i love a good story and in depth characters, i don't see anything wrong with turn based fighting. People say its unrealistic, but its a video game and i don't see a man in a green suit running around killing aliens and destroying giant rings in space everyday, but maybe thats just me.
I haven't played many WRPG's but i have found them enjoyable such as Mass effect and Oblivion, but i found them missing the story to pull me into them. They were fun however every once in awhile i will go back and kill people in Oblivion for the hell of it. JRPG's i just have a funner time playing i guess.
As a long time gamer i have played a multitude of games all ranging from different types, chances are you name a genre i can name a game i have played and beaten of it. I feel JRPG's are the best i love a good story and in depth characters, i don't see anything wrong with turn based fighting. People say its unrealistic, but its a video game and i don't see a man in a green suit running around killing aliens and destroying giant rings in space everyday, but maybe thats just me.
I haven't played many WRPG's but i have found them enjoyable such as Mass effect and Oblivion, but i found them missing the story to pull me into them. They were fun however every once in awhile i will go back and kill people in Oblivion for the hell of it. JRPG's i just have a funner time playing i guess.
Yea exactly. I thoroughly enjoyed FF X even though the characters were a bit annoying it had a great story behind it. As did FF VII.
The game i did not realty enjoy was XII. The combat worked (except quickening being overpowered). But it just did not feel like a Final Fantasy to me and the story and characters were all boring and annoying. Also there was plenty extra for no good reward. It seems they are getting the feel back with XIII and Versus so it is ok.
I am playing Crisis Core now and loving every minute.
The game i did not realty enjoy was XII. The combat worked (except quickening being overpowered). But it just did not feel like a Final Fantasy to me and the story and characters were all boring and annoying. Also there was plenty extra for no good reward. It seems they are getting the feel back with XIII and Versus so it is ok.
I am playing Crisis Core now and loving every minute.