JRPGs and WRPGs: Can they be considered different genres?

[veloper]

I wouldn't consider the WRPG a genre at all. Diablo, Shadowrun and Mass Effect don't have much in common, beyond stat progression and the JRPGs have that too.

Going by the oldskool definition, the JRPG can still a meaningful way to describe a game having all or most of these features: turn based, full party control, transitioning between world map and battle screens, no tactical movement during combat, focus on a lineair story, random encounters, anime visual style.

If you go by the newbie definition of a JRPG which includes action-RPGs such as DS and basicly anything with stats, made in Japan, then that term has become meaningless too.

 

[Funyahns]

I think that you would call them both the same Genre. Just of a different subset (sorry not sure of that actual term for smaller size in a genre). There are plenty of action games that are vastly different from one another, yet all fall under the category of action. Or sports, Hockey in nothing like Football which is totally different from Baseball yet they are all under the same genre.

 

[kingpocky]

I think the bottom line is that "rpg" deserves more subdivisions, as JRPG and WRPG don't come close to cutting it. There's Sandbox RPGs like TES and Fallout and Shadowrun, Hack and Slash RPGs like Diablo and Dungeon Siege, Character and story based rpgs like Final Fantasy and the Shin Megami Tensei series, and plenty of games in other genres that borrow RPG style elements like leveling and stats and character progression. There are also games like Mass Effect and Deus Ex that fall somewhere inbetween. They are more flexible in the kind of character you play than most story-based rpgs, but not as much as a sandbox game, as you play someone predefined.

 

[Arina Love]

j-RPG and W-RPG is very different takes on RPG. While J-RPGs generally about role playing a existing character with motivations, thinking as well as decision making in a more or less linear world that heavily dependent on overarching story. W-RPG generally is about creation of own avatar to interact with the free world. There is exceptions and some modifications of formula but cores of J-rpg and W-rpgs are different and that's why they appeal to different people. That's why i consider j-rpgs and w-rpg different genres. If i judged skyrim on the standards that i judge my j-rpgs because it's an RPG too, skyrim wouldn't get a passing score.

 

[Rotten_Karma]

To see the diffrence between JRPGS and WRPGs one has to see a distinction between ROLL playing games and ROLE playing games. ROLL playing games have little to no player controled character development but still have random elements (Rolls) and a level system so they get mislabled RPG. ROLE playing games have a player character whos personality gets chosen by the player in addition to the stats and gear. ROLE playing games do not always have random elements. (see Mass Effect 2)

JRPGs are purely ROLL playing games, with stats but no player character. Tidus will always be a whiny brat, Balthier will always be a Han Solo expy, Dart will always be the fire based magical knight. Each character, including the first character you get, will always get their hat and keep it with no decisions about their personality or class to be made. JRPGs are just anime movies with game elements.

Contrast with a ROLE playing game, say... Mass Effect. On a basic level, at the very least, if you are powergaming, you have to pick Shepard's class and one of paragon/renegade. However you are not required to power game and can pick how Shepard reacts to each event, allowing the player to build Shepard's personality, thus allowing ROLE playing. The same goes for any of the Bethesda games (TES, Fallout 3 and NV), the other Bioware games (NWN, Jade Empire, KotOR, Dragon age). Furthermore, most WRPGS are directly descended from DnD (the Original Bard's Tale series), or are computer adaptations of DnD(Planescape: Torment, Neverwitnter Nights, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale). In the end all of these games give the player more choice than "Am I going to take Vaan, Balthier, Fran, or Vaan, Basch, Ashe?".

WRPGs do not entirely fall into the ROLE category, with ARPGs (Diablo, Path of Exile, Borderlands) being purely ROLL playing, again with no character development, and not much story at all.

 

[Fox12]

Well, different sub-genres perhaps. There are serious differences culturally, and a lot of game mechanics tend to be different. That said, Japanese developers have copied western RPG's, and vice-versa. For the most part I think Western games tend to be about player choice, allowing you to customize your character and story in a massive world. Japanese games tend to give you set of actual characters with a set story and world. Generally, as a result, I think JRPG's have better characters and stories, whereas WRPG's tend to have more immersive worlds and player freedom. Both are good for what they are.

Realistically, I think it would be easier to just divide RPG's into smaller sub genres, which would give a more accurate depiction of what the game actually is. All the information you can really get from JRPG's vs WRPG's is what region of the planet the game comes from. Dragons Dogma looks like a Western game, but technically it's a JRPG. As a result, while both have certain trends, I don't think they're accurate descriptors.

 

[Gatx]

That doesn't change the fact that Skyrim and Final Fantasy XIII are wildly different types of games despite both having their roots in D&D.

Huh? I wasn't trying to change anything, just pointing out a neat fact. What's your point?

My bad, misread, I thought you were saying there was no point in distinguishing them since they all have the same root.

Except they're not called "American RPGs" they're called "Western" so it does include Canada and all of Europe in addition to the U.S.

Again, not really sure I know what you're trying to say. Obviously I know 'western' includes all those, I just think it's stupid. That was my point. Japan vs. the rest of the world isn't exactly clear genre division.[/quote]
Just a nitpick -

Why the hell does everything outside of Japan get labeled as 'western', which itself, let's be honest here, basically implies USA. Hell the biggest 'wrpg' developer around to today, Bioware, is freakin' Canadian. Fable is British. Witcher is Polish. The new King's Bounty is Russian. The Divinity games are Belgian. Etc, etc.

All those games play completely differently, have a style all their own, and are distinctly not American...

You're saying that the Western in WRPGs refers to America, and then give a bunch of non-American examples to show how un-American WRPGs can be when America actually isn't usually associated with the term WRPG at all, which is why they're not called American RPGs but Western RPGs.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Eh, I understand using the distinction just to make things easier.

I mean yes, Persona 4 and Skyrim are both RPG games, but due to the differing mechanics and art styles, I understand why people would prefer to differentiate them a bit more than that.

What makes it so difficult is that for the most part, there seem to be two differing definitions of what "is" or "isn't" a JRPG. Some people try to use it as a term meaning the genre, and some use it to just say "It's an RPG...from Japan." and neither of those are really wrong, and they don't conflict with one another.

For instance, I once got flamed pretty badly on GameFAQs because I referred to Fire Emblem Awakening as a JRPG. The retaliation was basically "It's not a JRPG, it's an SRPG!" followed by random insults and expletives that aren't important right now.

And yes, Fire Emblem is an SRPG because...well again, people come to define a genre by its mechanics. It's an RPG that uses grid based combat, so it must be an SRPG, right? But...by saying "It's not a JRPG" are you saying Fire Emblem is...not Japanese?

It's weird and its messy, and I don't really think there is a right or wrong answer on this subject.

For me, whenever I see anyone use the terms, I usually just get what they're talking about, and it's just something where I don't feel like getting into the semantics of it.

When someone says WRPG, I can assume they usually mean a more free roaming game with real time combat, like Skyrim

And when someone says JRPG I assume they mean a random battle, turn based, etc. etc. type dealy like Shin Megami Tensei IV.

Then I just check what game they're actually talking about and go "Oh okay, that's why they said that." regardless of whether or not it fits those preconceived notions.

exactly this.

i tend to understand it more as a art style choice and how the story is going to be, rather than where it was developed exactly.

most wrpg's are some type of open world or "insert yourself here", while most jrpg's have a very specific art style and have tighter stories based around pre defined characters.

both are fine, neither is greater than the other, it just helps generalize some things into simple abbreviation form.

Personally I define them as sub-genre's underneath rpg, but whatever floats peoples boats, its not like the genre is going to change the game itself.


"oh no! persona is evolving, it's new trait is...FPS?!?!?! WAHHHHHHHHHHHH?!?!!"

side note: quite a bit of tension in here already over genre labels...

 

[Talvrae]

I wouldn't consider the WRPG a genre at all. Diablo, Shadowrun and Mass Effect don't have much in common, beyond stat progression and the JRPGs have that too.

Diablo for me is not a RPG, like i think jRPG are not RPG eighte, Diablo is an hack & slash, that's it's gendra, Mass Effect i call it Action RPG, that put it in it's own sub cathegorie

 

[Souplex]

Yes.
JRPG and WRPG aren't about geography, they're about content.
Dark Souls is a Western RPG developed by a Japanese dev team.

 

[veloper]

I wouldn't consider the WRPG a genre at all. Diablo, Shadowrun and Mass Effect don't have much in common, beyond stat progression and the JRPGs have that too.

Diablo for me is not a RPG, like i think jRPG are not RPG eighte, Diablo is an hack & slash, that's it's gendra, Mass Effect i call it Action RPG, that put it in it's own sub cathegorie

Pretty much, but I just go one step further and just call subs for everything, since there's no chance of any sort of community consensus on the what makes an "RPG", but sometimes you still want to get the message across.

So Diablo, Shadowrun and Mass Effect are respectively TPLooter(or just "diablo clone" when a game's not D), TB-RPG and RPShooter. Less confusion all around.

 

[Dominic Crossman]

I have diffrent expectations from them, such as voice acting. If a JRPG has good voice acting I'm pleasantly suprised, if a wrpg has good voice acting I just take it as standard.

 

[Maximum Bert]

Everyone has their own ideas of what constitutes an RPG let alone a JRPG and WRPG it is a convoluted mess really and to be honest pointless anyway who cares what a game is labelled as? just marketing people.

I mean you could say Street Fighter 4, super mario bros 3 and COD are all the same genre (action games) just different subsets of that huge genre but then what is an action game I bet my definition is different to yours, we could argue all day over what makes a game a specific genre and how they differ but all games differ odds are the people developing it will be influenced by whats around them and create their own experience from that.

Genres are largely meaningless now people get a feel for what they would classify the game as by seeing and preferably playing it.

 

[Okysho]

I feel the need to weigh in here a little bit.

RPGs developed by any developers that aren't Japanese (a generalization) tend to be somewhat less focused around the main character (There are some exceptions, see KOTOR and Mass Effect) but use the main character as a framing device to advance the plot. I theorize (as I do not develop RPGs on any level) that this is due to the DnD model of creating a character and inserting them into a campaign, rather than taking the role of a specific character and leading them through a story.

JRPGs do this a lot more, while they can both have free-roaming environments (and tend to, I.E. an overworld for JRPGs), JRPGs tend to have (or at least try, there are bad JRPGs just like WRPGs) a story more centered on the main character as well as their party (can't think of many JRPGs without parties, but lots of WRPGs without parties)

I'm not an avid DnD player (but I have played). JRPGs, while constrictive in their custom character development, feels more like a DM leading the player through the story/campaign. WRPGs have a tendency to bog down the player with side quests and take away a lot of (what I am somewhat reluctant to say) the urgency of the main plot. Especially in WRPGs, it feels like almost every NPC one speaks to will drop a side quest. You could spend hours/a day (days?) in a single town doing everyone's odd jobs, while JRPG side quests are somewhat fewer, harder to find (in some cases) and in some cases, extremely difficult (see niflheim, in Tales of Symphonia, Cave of ordeals in Twilight Princess [though more forgiving])

If anyone takes this post as bashing one over the other, let me clear up by saying I'm not against either type of RPG, JRPGs tend to keep me more invested the WRPGs, but that is due to the way they progress their story, as opposed to WRPGs. I love Bethesda's concept of a "Fantasy Sandbox Game", like Saints Row, but with swords, but Bethesda has it's own problems, which I'll not get into (bugs and such). Fallout 3 managed to keep me very busy through it's main plot (and DLC, the Pit was a great side-story)

Suffice it to say that each type of RPG has a place among the gaming audience. People will like what they like. I enjoy a good, somewhat quick-paced story with small recharge time between plot points, but WRPGs have their place as well within my gaming log.

Edit:

OH SHIT mechanichal differences. Um... Yeah JRPGs usually have a slower turn-based system, which has put me off of a few gens (never played golden sun, because I didn't have the patience to pick up ANOTHER JRPG I have things to do too), but some companies seem to be gravitating away from that (I.E. The Last Story, Xenoblade Chronicles, Operation Rainfall what have you). Bioware's D20 system for KOTOR was quite good, and Bethesda (ahhh bethesda... let's leave it there ) However, I think that the best real-time sword mechanics goes to Zelda because the combat always feels fantastic in a Zelda game. (But that's technically considered Action Adventure, take that as you will.)

 

[Fappy]

Pointless trivia time: Both 'jrpg' and 'wrpg' some might be surprised to learn stem from the same basic roots; D&D. But Madman, you say, modern jrpg are nothing like D&D! To which I respond with a wry chuckle and a shake of my head. Oh naive naive child, let me tell you about an old PC rpg called Wizardry (Inspired by D&D) which inexplicably became insanely popular in Japan, which itself would then go on to inspire a game called Dragons Quest, which in turn would inspire a little series called Final Fantasy.

And that's how a baby jrpg is born.

As for the whole jrpg/wrpg thing I think it's rubbish. Why the hell does everything outside of Japan get labeled as 'western', which itself, let's be honest here, basically implies USA. Hell the biggest 'wrpg' developer around to today, Bioware, is freakin' Canadian. Fable is British. Witcher is Polish. The new King's Bounty is Russian. The Divinity games are Belgian. Etc, etc.

All those games play completely differently, have a style all their own, and are distinctly not American yet for some stupid reason are labeled under the same classification as 'western rpg'? Bullshit. Skyrim is about as far removed from King's Bounty as a racing game is to a flight sim. Sure in both you're inside a vehicle of some sort, but they're hardly the same thing. Yet they fall under the same 'genre' because they weren't made in Japan?

What kind of dumb, arbitrary genre choice is that?

I agree with pretty much everything stated here.

I don't take issue with people using those categories, however, because everyone understands them and it's a simple way to differentiate two kinds of games. In reality any given JRPG may be far more similar to its WRPG counterpart than said WRPG is to another WRPG. Genres serve the same purpose as stereotypes in the way our mind organizes shortcuts and preconceived notions. They're convenient.

Strangely enough, the SMT series is one of the biggest JRPGs out there right now and many of its systems that remain in its games today were taken directly from the western dungeon crawlers of the 90's.

 

[McMarbles]

I believe so , and i personally treat them as such . Especially since i'm assuming you got this idea from my thread . While it's possible to mix and match the two , when i say ( and think ) Jrpg i think anime cartoony style . Like i said it's possible to mix and match art styles ( I.E Dark souls ), it's very rare . You can usually tell a Jrpg right off the bat . No one would mistake Final fantasy / star ocean / Persona / SMT / atelier Iris etc... Of being a Wrpg .

No one would mistake them for each other, either. Yet they get lumped together because of a similar art style. Would it then be right to consign, say, "The Last of Us", "Call of Duty", and "Uncharted" to the same genre because they all share the same gritty, realistic Western aesthetic?

 

[al4674]

I would say that JRPG's and WRPG's are actually separate genres. There are crucial differences when it comes to the general gameplay, control over the narrative, character customization, art styles and just wackiness.

A JRPG has never, at least to me, meant an RPG that was simply made in Japan. Same goes for WRPG. JRPG's I would generally associate with turn-based gameplay, very little control over the narrative and almost little to no character customization. A JRPG would already give you a clear package with independent characters and the player would simply control the said characters through the linear storyline. While there is very little actual input from the player - we still get a relatively complex storyline and developing characters - it's just that we have no real control over them. The RPG aspects are merely on how to equip your characters, what spells to use and mostly we're talking about the stat aspect of roleplay games.

A WRPG gives the player more control over the narrative and the development of the characters. Generally your main character is customizable and the narrative can be changed through player choices. Some of these choices may be moral conundrums, some of them are just player preferences on where to take the story. I wouldn't really associate WRPG's with turn based combat - at least not in the JRPG sense where you have a separate battle arena where both sides take turns to attack one another.

That is why I find it laughable when people try to classify for example Demon Souls/Dark Souls as JRPG's. They have nothing in common with your classic JRPG titles such as Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy, Grandia, Legend of Mana etc etc. The gameplay, little focus on the story and even the general setting make it clear that it is a WRPG that was made in Japan.

 

[krazykidd]

I believe so , and i personally treat them as such . Especially since i'm assuming you got this idea from my thread . While it's possible to mix and match the two , when i say ( and think ) Jrpg i think anime cartoony style . Like i said it's possible to mix and match art styles ( I.E Dark souls ), it's very rare . You can usually tell a Jrpg right off the bat . No one would mistake Final fantasy / star ocean / Persona / SMT / atelier Iris etc... Of being a Wrpg .

No one would mistake them for each other, either. Yet they get lumped together because of a similar art style. Would it then be right to consign, say, "The Last of Us", "Call of Duty", and "Uncharted" to the same genre because they all share the same gritty, realistic Western aesthetic?

Except that , we are talking about subgenres of the " RPG " . Unless i misunderstood the question OP was asking .

The difference between , Wrpg( baulders gate ) and Jrpg(finalfantasy) is the same between Modern malitary shooter( call of duty) and an Arcade shooter( serious sam). Sure they are both FPS , but they are seperate and should be treated as such .

 

[Hero of Lime]

Yes, I would lump them in together as the same genre. They have the same mechanics when you get right down to it. They just choose different settings usually, WRPGs go for Tolkien-like Medieval settings usually, or space. JRPGs can either be in a nebulous medieval Europe/feudal Japan/steampunk setting.

Their combat systems seem different enough, WRPGs rarely use turn based mechanics in favor of real time combat, but RPGs have a certain feel to them, and both fit the bill for me personally.