I agree to some extent. This is not always the case, but it is true far to often.
I think the trend can be traced back to an anime called Neon Genesis Evangelion, along with a lot of other really bad trends in anime and Japanese gaming.
Neon Genesis Evangelion was a single season anime released in 1995. In order to understand the state of Japanese video game and anime you need to understand that this show was insanely popular and influential. Within the anime community (and by spillover the video game community) it was similar to Star Wars in level of influence and popularity.
The problem is that Evangelion, while enjoyable in its own right, was really shit in a lot of ways. It started or popularized most of the trends people hate in JRPGs, including but not limited to:
- Whiny teenage male protagonists that are practically hand crafted to be objects of scorn
- Over complicated and pointlessly convoluted stories that don't make any sense
- Pseudo religious symbolism (Lets put crosses everywhere and make references to angels and the fall of Lucifer! that will make our story seem deep!)
- The introduction of random plot threads with no intention of ever resolving them
- An ending that resolves nothing, doesn't make sense, or just plain has nothing to do with the work
- Underage fan service
So every time you have a whiny male protagonist that you want to strangle, know that the problem can almost certainly be traced to Evangelion.
That...I find genuinely interesting. Do you think They adopt those traits for their main character just because that was popular, or because people genuinely liked it? Also do you know if Evangelion was the first to do it, or just the one to popularize it?
Utawarerumono
Irresponsible Captain Tylor
Ruroni Kenshin
Any Lupin movie
City Hunter
and Mermaid Forest
a try for protagonists/positive supporting characters in a more believable age range.
I *get* why younger protagonists are so often used, but like you I could really stand to see some more
who are reasonably mature in both years and emotional development.
These recommendations-like most that come from me-could be considered very "old school".
Thanks for those, I'll give them a try, though I saw/read a few of those when I was a teenager, they might be worth it to go through again as now I'm not a teenager.
I did watch Psycho Pass (I read it, but the manga I found didn't get very far) and it was pretty good. The lead female, I forget her name was a bit too weak for my liking, but at least she didn't rely on the men do protect her, as much as they tried to.
Yukiteru from Future Diary.
The kid wouldn't stop crying or whinning. Granted he is 14 years old so all the nonsense going around might be overwhelming, but I couldn't feel that at all from the character. I keep trying to tell myself, "He's just a kid, of course he is going to feel this way" but I can't. Perhaps the fear and anxiety was overdone so I got annoyed at it.
Thats not to say his personality didn't improve, it just (in my opinion) didn't happen fast enough.
Yeah I would think most would say this is how they feel about Yuki, in a similar fashion to Shinji from Evangelion. Considering how much Shinja pissed me right off, I was surprised I actually found myself accepting Yuki's behaviour.
I think your last point has something to do with it, in that his character does have more of an arc to it, and in the last 7 episodes or so he has the conviction to make his own choices and carry them out without all the complaining. Also,
To me the fact that his parents betray him and die right in front of him would mess anyone up emotionally, more so than Shinja having a neglectful father. Not to mention a girl who loves you, yet at the same time drug and try to kill you.
I agree to some extent. This is not always the case, but it is true far to often.
I think the trend can be traced back to an anime called Neon Genesis Evangelion, along with a lot of other really bad trends in anime and Japanese gaming.
Neon Genesis Evangelion was a single season anime released in 1995. In order to understand the state of Japanese video game and anime you need to understand that this show was insanely popular and influential. Within the anime community (and by spillover the video game community) it was similar to Star Wars in level of influence and popularity.
The problem is that Evangelion, while enjoyable in its own right, was really shit in a lot of ways. It started or popularized most of the trends people hate in JRPGs, including but not limited to:
- Whiny teenage male protagonists that are practically hand crafted to be objects of scorn
- Over complicated and pointlessly convoluted stories that don't make any sense
- Pseudo religious symbolism (Lets put crosses everywhere and make references to angels and the fall of Lucifer! that will make our story seem deep!)
- The introduction of random plot threads with no intention of ever resolving them
- An ending that resolves nothing, doesn't make sense, or just plain has nothing to do with the work
- Underage fan service
So every time you have a whiny male protagonist that you want to strangle, know that the problem can almost certainly be traced to Evangelion.
That...I find genuinely interesting. Do you think They adopt those traits for their main character just because that was popular, or because people genuinely liked it? Also do you know if Evangelion was the first to do it, or just the one to popularize it?
Actually, as I understand it Evangelion did it because it was counter the norm at the time. You see, there were tons of anime back then where a "typical" teenagers get super powers or something and becomes a hero. The idea behind the main character of Evangelion (Shinji) was to subvert the trope.
Shinji is a completely non heroic person and what is more he does not have the potential to be a hero. He is by the standards of even average people cowardly, weak, stupid, whiny, and generally bad at life. He is the last person you would ever count on to save the world because he would so obviously fail.
The idea behind Evangelion was to take such an individual and make them the last hope of humanity. If he (and a few other equally broken individuals like him) cannot save the world then it is doomed. So the weight of the world is put on his shoulders and we watch it crush him.
This was actually the best part of the anime. It made for a very interesting story and a very interesting and unusual main character. Shinji was highly relatable and even though he was whiny and weak and stupid it was done so well that you can't help but like him and hope for his success. His weakness added to the tension because not only do we have to worry that he might be horribly killed by giant monsters but we have to wonder if he is just going to snap from the pressure.
But then Evangelion got super popular and everyone copied it and here we have the problem. A protagonist like Shinji only works when it is against the norm and when handled with great care. What most copies have done is take their previous super human protagonists, kept them super human but also made them whiny idiots in a cheap attempt to copy Evangelion. They fundamentally misunderstand the idea of a broken protagonist and misapply the character and story elements to horrible effect.
P.S. I want to make it clear that Evangelion is not a great anime by my estimation. I think it is worth seeing because it will help you understand anime and the Japanese video game industry and even just because it is an ok ride, but know that you will be disappointing by it in the end. It was an anime with one really good idea done pretty well that messed up in a whole lot of other ways. I may be a little biased though. I was told by many that it was the best anime of all time (which many still believe) and it even makes you think it might be for a little while. I was really disappointed when the house of cards came crashing down and it became apparent that 75% of the show is random bullshit thrown in to make it look deeper than it actually is.
If you want to see a good giant robot anime look for Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. Done by the same studio as Evangelion, it is kind of an apology for popularizing the failure as a main character. It is basically about the most heroic individuals ever powering giant robots by the sheer force of their awesome.
I don't think main characters have to be likable. Laharl from Disgaea is a horrible brat and despite his character development never grows out of it. I still to find him a very good main character.
I suppose JRPG and anime heroes can be hit and miss but i actually only encountered ''hits'' and actually find their reputation a but overblown. I know those horrible emo or dumbass characters exist i just haven't seen them. The jrp's i pick usually have main characters that are praised a lot or at least don't have a hatedom.
For every emo or unlikable main character in anime's and JRPGs you also have great once like Zidane, Yuri Lowel, Laharl, and Edward Elric.
Speaking as someone who has just gotten into Disgaea, I personally found Laharl kind of endearing. He's an obnoxious and naive brat who talks big game, but he has the power and vassals to back it up. Plus I do like how he changes a bit over the course of the game.
I particularly liked it when he sent Kurtis to heaven to be with his family after he sacrificed himself to save Jennifer.
Also, dat evil laugh.
captcha: shaken not stirred
No captcha, we're talking about characters from JRPG's and anime.
Although I guess that does make me wonder what the general consensus on James Bond as a character is on this site.
The only real main characters in anime I have problems with are the violent girls, the ones who regularly punch the men who have displeased them as hard and as viciously as they can. I dont find it funny or feel that their victims deserved it, it just makes me dislike the violent *****. Sakura from Naruto is a prime example of the violent ***** trope.
Although those on the receiving end of the beating recover very quickly, its really just not an endearing trait.
I watched this anime called "Love Hina" and the main character would always accidentally do something that would be misinterpreted as perverted and then he gets beat up by his love interest. This was sort of a running gag throughout the show, and to me it got very old very quick.
Luke Fon Fabre, by the gods, this guy made me want to snap the fucking cartridge in half (played the 3DS version) He is insufferable for the first half of the game, my sister says he gets better and I reached the part in the story where he casually fucks up everything and might start becoming less of a ****, but for the most part, I wanted to stop playing because this bitchbag is the protagonist.
Seriously, anyone who complains about Tidus, Tidus is nothing compared to Luke in terms of annoyance.
I disagree. Tidus started out as a whiny *****, and he stayed a whiny *****.
You're right, Luke is irritating and obnoxious to the point where I could feel my skin peeling until Akzeriuth, but your sister was right: he has a couple of good, strong character arcs later on.
(The only reason I managed to get that far was because of Jade Curtiss; I love that sarcastic ************.
90% of the plot would not occur at all were it not for him, and he fucking knows it.)
I'll give Luke the benefit of actually addressing a few things most story-driven games completely gloss over.
Tidus can die of cancer for all I care. Throat cancer preferably, so I don't have to listen to that keening brat's voice.
You haven't watched .hack//SIGN, have you? The main character, Tsukasa, is a jerk and a half.
Yeah. He's the annoying emo type that is too good to be nice to people.
The first episode is just there to establish how much of a jerk he is. Hell, I can't even watch the dub without wanting to punch his face.
[small]And there's the fact that the dub is terrible anyway...[/small]
At least the kid gets a huge dose of character development.
Don't even get me started on Idiot Heroes... Just focus on the character you like, in some cases the other characters are more interesting than the main protagonist anyway.
As much as I loved .hack//SIGN (and still consider it to be damn good), Tsukasa was definitely a douche for a lot of the beginning. But then again, they did a pretty good job of showing how crappy of a life he had in the real world, and how that translated to how she acted in The World. Being trapped there notwithstanding.
Still, I can't fault them for displaying him like that. He and Mimiru are foils for one another, and she acted as a nice background to show how he developed more as a person (ie being less of a jerk).
OT: I'm with you on this one TC. FFXII is probably my favorite in the series right now, and it's a damn shame they replaced Basch with Vaan. I played through it again a couple summers ago, and I can now honestly say that if Vaan and Penelo were removed from the game, absolutely nothing would have changed. Perspective character be damned--Tidus may have been a whiner, but at least he was a good lens for the player to see the world through. Vaan and Penelo are just dead-weight.
Neither of them even got their storylines resolved in a meaningful way! Actually, allow me to amend that: Vaan never got his storyline resolved, and Penelo never had one in the first place. I mean, yeah, Vaan found Basch and realized that it wasn't he who killed Reks, but at the same time that's not really a resolution, either. I forget when exactly, but Vaan eventually ups and realizes that getting revenge won't bring Reks back, and that ends his sub-plot. Penelo, meanwhile, got kidnapped and rescued, which I don't consider to be her sub-plot, as she just became a plot device. Outside of that and her scenes with Larsa, there really wasn't much else for her to do.
Looking at the rest of the cast, Balthier and his father have their relationship explained and resolved (even briefly integrating Ashe into it), Fran has her issues with her sisters resolved, Basch and Gabranth's problems with one another are resolved, and Ashe's plot with the is resolved (which is the plot of the game), and Larsa and Vayne both receive closure to their stories.
If any good came out of Vaan and Penelo, it was that in Revenant Wings they gave both Vaan and Penelo real character development, with a real storyline.
Anyway, with that out of my system, I don't think this is purely an issue with JRPGs or anime. Hell, look at Assassin's Creed 3: Conner was an awful protagonist, and every side-character was more interesting and likable than him. His best friend in his village was a more interesting character, and was only in the game for 20 minutes!
Yukiteru from Future Diary.
The kid wouldn't stop crying or whinning. Granted he is 14 years old so all the nonsense going around might be overwhelming, but I couldn't feel that at all from the character. I keep trying to tell myself, "He's just a kid, of course he is going to feel this way" but I can't. Perhaps the fear and anxiety was overdone so I got annoyed at it.
Thats not to say his personality didn't improve, it just (in my opinion) didn't happen fast enough.
Would it be wrong to assume you didn't like him?, i mean, there are a lot of misunderstandings in this forum
So far, i'm not liking the series very much,most of the characters have undiagnosed brain tumors
Yuki:
I am gonna tell this group of people i just met that i can see the future!, it's not like that could make them suddenly want to brutally murder me since i am participating in a Battle Royale right!?
Kurusu(detective guy):
i am going to go into this hospital that currently houses a terrorist,a psychopathic yandere *****,and a guy that has killed numerous people with darts,it's not like i have underlings i could send in my place, and i am going to take my cellphone, my one weakness! with me, i see no way this could ever go wrong
Yuno:
there is a diary owner in Yuki's house!, i must go kill the shit out of him inmediatly, it's not like there are other people in the house who could get accidentally hurt or call the police after they see me stabbing the shit out of him!,subtlety is for pussies!
Yuno 2:
i am going to kidnap Yuki!, it's not like i could just talk to him and tell him "Yuki we must hide!" or something
Altough, to be fair, Yuno is a psychopathic *****, and she may not have thought this trough
The eyepatch chick:
A diary owner?,awesome!, i am going to blow up his fucking school, and i am going to appear in public and announce that i am going to blow up his fucking school!, it's not like that could draw the attention of other diary owners or something
Kill him stealthily you say?
Fuck that, subtlety is for pussies
That is why i stick with seinen,it is generelly more intelligent and stuff
I personally liked Mirai Nikki a lot. Mostly because I really found the concept of it pretty intriguing. Normally I would hate any sort of time-travel shit, but getting messages from your future self in your diary is well thought of.
Of course Yuki was a pathetic little kid, but that's also exactly the role he's meant to play. Furthermore, his character does go through some interesting changes as he tries to find the answer to all the shit that goes on around him, only to fail again. Considering the demographic I'd say he's quite a "round" character overall.
Series for a "Shonen" public in the west wouldn't ever dare to tackle these kinds of themes imo. Well maybe in the past, but I haven't seen any recent series that would.
The concept IS pretty cool, it's just that the characters(so far) are idiots, and the diary holders don't get as much development as say, Fate/Zero's characters
Fate/Zero killed off most of its cast, but it only did so in the second half(except for that assasin in episode 3 i think,poor guy), it gave them all screen time and development and all that stuff before killing them off
Mirai Nikki just shows off most of its characters for an episode or 2, then kills them, while i love stories that didn't stock up on plot armor, they should give them some screen time so that their deaths actually matter
It's like that little kid Caster killed in one of the early episodes of Fate/Zero, Caster first freed the kid, he gave him hope, then he murdered the shit out of him when he least expected it, this had more weight than if he had simply killed him
Or Madoka in general,the first 2 episodes made it look like an innocent magical girl story, then episode 3 happened
I get the feeling this is a bit redundant, but the characters should be fleshed out before they are killed off, to give their death some meaning
verdant monkai said:
The only real main characters in anime I have problems with are the violent girls, the ones who regularly punch the men who have displeased them as hard and as viciously as they can. I dont find it funny or feel that their victims deserved it, it just makes me dislike the violent *****. Sakura from Naruto is a prime example of the violent ***** trope.
Although those on the receiving end of the beating recover very quickly, its really just not an endearing trait.
I sorta agree with you, but i dislike violent/short tempered characters in general, not people that like killing stuff, but people who are angered easily, if i remember correctly, i loved Fate/Stay Night's prologue because of the scene where Rin starts snarkily insulting Shinji for being a douche, instead of hitting him or something, it was very satisfying
If this scene consisted of Rin getting angry at Shinji for being a douche, i wouldn't have had such a good first impression, anyone can get angry and punch someone, but you need some intelligence to see what a waste of time that would be
An easily angered character i can think of is Eren from Shingeki no Kyojin(forgive me of i spelled that wrong),and the minor villians from the first 2 episodes
The first minor villian are some kids who are beating up a guy they disagree with, the guy says they are just beating him up because he won the discussion, and the other guys tell him to stop with his crappy arguments
The second one was a guard in episode 2, he was saying something like "these refugees are twats, they should have been eaten by the giants so they would stop bothering us", then Eren, the MC who had his mom eaten by a giant goes and kick him, and says he is a douche, instead of recognizing his douchebaggery, or doing something smart, the guard just says "shut up!", this is also why i dislike Eren, the only things he does is getting angry at things, another thing i hate is moms who are needlessly antagonistic, or kids who ere just dumb little shits, as someone who gets along with his mom pretty well IRL, this simply feels stup-
Ok, if i continue talking about things i hate in pop culture, this would take all day
Long story short,Shingeki No Kyojin looks like it could be a good series, but i just can't stand the main character and minor villians
As much as I loved .hack//SIGN (and still consider it to be damn good), Tsukasa was definitely a douche for a lot of the beginning. But then again, they did a pretty good job of showing how crappy of a life he had in the real world, and how that translated to how she acted in The World. Being trapped there notwithstanding.
Still, I can't fault them for displaying him like that. He and Mimiru are foils for one another, and she acted as a nice background to show how he developed more as a person (ie being less of a jerk).
[small]I'm not alone in liking that anime?[/small]
I can't help but agree with you there. One thing I've noticed with the franchise is that the character I hate often have a sympathetic reason for acting like they do. An example would be Tabby and the fact that she's super peppy all the time is because of medication she is forced to take. You can guess that I felt like a real jerk afterwards. With Tsukasa, thought, while re-watching .hack//SIGN, I just was surprised at how much I empathised with Tsukasa when I first watched it, because he's so much of a jerk. Then again, life wasn't very happy for me back then, a sort of 'everybody hates me and I hate them back' situation. Still, Tsukasa doesn't discard his jerkness until very late in the series, which means a lot of episodes where he is a full-on jerk to get through.
OT: Another person from that particular franchise, Tokio Kuryuu. I don't know which is more annoying, his stupidy or his worship of Kite. Sure, he gets some development, but he just goes from a stupid person who has no idea what is going on and is just someone for Saika to slap and boss around to another "FRIENDSHIP AND TEAMWORK ARE THE BEST!" guy. I really don't like Sora from Kingdom Hearts either, he's just too simple and naive, I guess. A lot of characters in Kingdom Hearts are far more interesting than him, even to the point where his Nobody is a better character than him. The whole "It has to be you, Sora," scene in Dream Drop Distance was just a kick in the teeth for me. Then again, I'm probably biased since I prefer Roxas's VA over Sora's.
Main chars sucks in Western and Eastern Media, they just suck in different ways. East has the less manly, but goofy and kinda stupid MC while the US has the overly manly, few words, trying to act cool MC. This is a generalization, but sadly true.
This is true, but at least the main characters of western media are kinda meant to be what we can aspire to, rather than an annoying brat who most of us are already even out of the stage in life where we might even have a slight chance of getting a free pass to act like that?
As much as I loved .hack//SIGN (and still consider it to be damn good), Tsukasa was definitely a douche for a lot of the beginning. But then again, they did a pretty good job of showing how crappy of a life he had in the real world, and how that translated to how she acted in The World. Being trapped there notwithstanding.
Still, I can't fault them for displaying him like that. He and Mimiru are foils for one another, and she acted as a nice background to show how he developed more as a person (ie being less of a jerk).
[small]I'm not alone in liking that anime?[/small]
I can't help but agree with you there. One thing I've noticed with the franchise is that the character I hate often have a sympathetic reason for acting like they do. An example would be Tabby and the fact that she's super peppy all the time is because of medication she is forced to take. You can guess that I felt like a real jerk afterwards. With Tsukasa, thought, while re-watching .hack//SIGN, I just was surprised at how much I empathised with Tsukasa when I first watched it, because he's so much of a jerk. Then again, life wasn't very happy for me back then, a sort of 'everybody hates me and I hate them back' situation. Still, Tsukasa doesn't discard his jerkness until very late in the series, which means a lot of episodes where he is a full-on jerk to get through.
Don't worry about it, one of my old favourites as well. Being seriously depressed and suicidal made Tsukasa a fairly relatable character, having gender identity issues made it more fitting when I completed the series. Honestly, I kind of reacted the same way to people back then, because of the worldview you get when depressed. Happy go lucky people wants to help, but they can't relate or understand and it can feel insulting. If I could have lived in a believable virtual world with my own personal guardian and some solitude back then, I probably would have.
Incidently FF VI is one of my all time favourite games ever.
Luke Fon Fabre, by the gods, this guy made me want to snap the fucking cartridge in half (played the 3DS version) He is insufferable for the first half of the game, my sister says he gets better and I reached the part in the story where he casually fucks up everything and might start becoming less of a ****, but for the most part, I wanted to stop playing because this bitchbag is the protagonist.
Seriously, anyone who complains about Tidus, Tidus is nothing compared to Luke in terms of annoyance.
and they designed him that way on purpose, Luke is so over the top annoying that he is pretty much a parody of annoying main male characters. if i know anything about the "Tales Studio" team, i really wouldn't put it past them to do so.
You know? I see a few people hating on things that I often hate on, so I like that. However, if I were to give an example of JRPG's/Anime that had characters I didn't like as an example that no one else has used...
Renten from Eureka Seven. Oh dear god, I hated that anime mainly because of Renten, since he had the Shinji from Evangelion Syndrome of being a whiny little prick who had to whine about everything, and especially still whining after accomplishing his dream of being apart of Gekko State, and always complaining about why everyone hates him (Despite the fact it's obvious to everyone watching why), his obsession with his love interest and her kids, ugh. Just everything about that show (Save for the interesting Mecha and their surfboards) made me want to break something.
As for JRPG's, I'd have to say it'd be a tie between Hope and Snow from Final Fantasy XIII, hell, I'd even add Vanille to that list, and possibly a few others from that game. Hope got hit with the Shinji stick bad, Snow got hit with the Naruto stick ten times too many, and Vanille... Yeah, do I have to explain her? I don't want too, and I'm just using the easiest examples to describe them as I could fill a page with how much I hate them. Now then, for two I actually like...
Ban Midou from Get Backers. One of the rare occasions when the main protagonist isn't a 15-18 year old (Depending on Anime/Manga, Ban is older in the manga, but around 18 or so in the anime) and he's just pure awesomeness in a bottle, not to mention, his powers were constantly explained and even brought more light to his character, although I did wish we could've seen his grandma in the Anime (Would've liked to see what people thought of her XD), and none of him was pure dues ex machine, he always thought of his plans fully, and he always used his brain in a fight instead of his force, most of the time anyways.
Now, for JRPG's, there's quite a few who I love and adore with a dying passion, but I'm gonna say one that no one's said here, and I purely understand why, and I KNOW I'm gonna get hatred from this choice, but be honest: Who was the only character that was somewhat likeable in the FF XIII Series? Lightning? She was a witch, who's character development starts and ends with bland female cloud. My choice?
Sazh from Final Fantasy XIII (1 & 2). Hate on me all you want, but I actually enjoyed his bits in the series, he was the mood enhancer to the series, he was one of the few African-American characters in a JRPG I respect with all dignity, and his skill set was pure gold in the game. Multi-Hit Spray Blitz as a Commando, and the first (out of two) main characters to use Haste in the game, his story arc (Albeit with Vanille) made me like him, and when he joined the cast, even more so. And say what you will about FF XIII's Garbage Battle System, the other characters, and so on, Sazh to me was a God-Tier Character compared to the Crud-Tier Cast he was forced with, and I am sad that he wasn't put in a better Final Fantasy Game.
If I find something else, I'll say something else. All for now.
Hugs to you both, anyway. Glad to find some fellow fans on here.
OT: Need I repeat my little speech about Sora from Kingdom Hearts? But I think that Nowe from Drakengard 2 needs a mention here as well. He is just really plain dumb. And even while reading an LP of it I wanted to punch him.
Women: Love types = Tsundere (Sassy *****)/yandere (secret psycho sweetie)/genki girl (hyperactive optimist)/Kuudere (cold & unfeeling). Hate = Ultrafeminine types, shy girls, crybabies, clumsy useless girls who need to be rescued constantly & no battle talent.
Man: Like types = Suspicious misunderstood angsty guy/the dumbass with a heart of gold/Looks like a chick. Hate = Mr Manly MacSupermacho, zealots, womanizers, homophobes, nationalists, racists.
In JRPGs I tend to like the men & hate the women, while in WRPGs I tend to like to women & hate the men.
I have exceptions though, like I get a kick out of Serious Sam, possibly because he's a parody character or because he falls right in between macho & dumbass.
Again, he was not supposed to be funny. He is spoiled and naive, the fun comes from the other characters (at least before he changes). But I get why that would not appeal to everyone.
Which is kinda why I liked Tales of Vesperia. The main character gave the bad guys all a chance or two, and when they kept being bad he just straight killed them. Oh Yuri, my favourite hero.
That kind of buggs me as well, but when it comes down to it, it's just numbers. I like do simply add 10 to 20 years of age to the characters in my head and that works out pretty well usually.
Who was the only character that was somewhat likeable in the FF XIII?
The only one that slightly resembled a real character was Hope imo. Yeah he's a whiny brat at first, but come on, he just lost his mother. Besides, he is the only one who actually has some kind of development over the course of the game. But generelly, FXIII had a really, really bland cast, the atrocious writing didn't help either.
On-Topic: Badly written characters really aren't exclusive to anime and JRPGs, there is as much or more crap in western media (for example the usual Mr. Blandy McBaldMarine).
Anime isn't even halfway through, so how could you say? Agree that it started strong but is starting to lose it a little bit. Still above average imo.
Don't agree that the protagonist sucks that much, you can't really know, he hasn't even featured in a large number of the latest episodes. He's annoying, but the series is self-conscious of this.
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