Just because she isn?t saying no doesn?t mean she is saying yes

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Okay, I know that there's a plethora of rape threads out right now, but this is one thing that bugs me.

This [http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/dont-be-that-guy-ad-campaign-cuts-vancouver-sex-assaults-by-10-per-cent-in-2011/article2310422/] article was posted in the Jimquisition thread, and it reminded me of this.

Why is it seen as being just as bad as rape if someone has sex and doesn't want to? First off, in this case I'm assuming that there the guy isn't threatening the girl with anything, and that the guy isn't aware that she doesn't want to. Isn't it someone's responsibility to look out for their interests? Why is the guy expected to look out for her interests when she won't even go as far for herself as saying no? Furthermore, why is the responsibility wholly put on the guy's end? Apparently if the guy doesn't want to have sex he's expected to voice the fact or just expected to take it?

I'm sorry if any of this sounds offensive, or insensitive, and I'm not trying to blame the victim. However you should at least have the responsibility to let someone know that they are making you a victim. People can't always be expected to understand what's going through your head, if you don't want to do something to the extent that you'd feel tortured by it, then why don't you say something?!

If I'm looking at the wrong situations or reading anything wrong and the situation I described doesn't apply, please let me know. If you think I'm wrong on anything please don't just call me a mysoginist or accuse me of condoning rape, actually explain where you think I'm wrong and why I am for thinking that.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

My god. Mind reader!!!!

I was sitting here, in my room thinking: "You know what the escapist needs? MORE GENDER THREADS!!!!"

And then all of a sudden, from the ether THERE WAS ANOTHER GENDER THREAD.

[HEADING=1]LORD ALMIGHTY THANK YOU, I NEEDED MORE GENDER THREADS. I ASKED AND YOU HAVE PROVIDED. PRAISE THE LORD!![/HEADING]

YOU'RE WELCOME!!!

By the way, what is sarcasm?

Really this isn't that much about gender, I just threw that in as a side note. The other matters are what have been bugging me more. I do apologize for throwing yet another rape thread into the mix however

EDIT: To be fair, I put it up at the same time as all of the other ones, so it should die around the same time or earlier

 

[thebakedpotato]

You do have a point. Right now there's a bit of a double standard. But... alas... That is not going to be solved in our generation.

It isn't equal. Because currently, the genders aren't equal. Don't agree? What would you think of a man who wore a dress in public?
It is because we as a society continue to adhere to gender roles and currently are only starting to allow for deviation and blending from those "proper" roles that the double standard is applied. And you know what? That's fine. Humanity currently is undergoing rapid change and everything else is having to catch up. Including gender roles and sexual roles and society blah blah blah hippy bullshit.

Anyway... Yeah, there's a bit of a double standard. However until the reason why there is a double standard is fully addressed. It will continue to serve to protect folks.
White straight men don't really need much protecting. They're white. They're men. They're straight. They get all the doors opened pretty much for them. Them fucking up... Is kinda on them.

 

[Luftwaffles]

My god. Mind reader!!!!

I was sitting here, in my room thinking: "You know what the escapist needs? MORE GENDER THREADS!!!!"

And then all of a sudden, from the ether THERE WAS ANOTHER GENDER THREAD.

[HEADING=1]LORD ALMIGHTY THANK YOU, I NEEDED MORE GENDER THREADS. I ASKED AND YOU HAVE PROVIDED. PRAISE THE LORD!![/HEADING]


OT You know the way the escapist has a religion and politics subforum? I think we need one for Gender Politics.

Jeez man, stop thinking about useless thread topics already. STOP ASKING FOR THINGS THAT WE DONT NEEEED!!!

/sarcasmo

 

[Jonluw]

Failure to oppose an action (that is easily opposed) implies consent.
Unless you're a mute, paralyzed, paraplegic I guess.

I don't see how that is hard to understand.
It would be rather silly if you had to add a formality like publicly answering 'yes' to the question 'would you like some intercourse?' to the ritual of mating.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

You do have a point. Right now there's a bit of a double standard. But... alas... That is not going to be solved in our generation.

It isn't equal. Because currently, the genders aren't equal. Don't agree? What would you think of a man who wore a dress in public?
It is because we as a society continue to adhere to gender roles and currently are only starting to allow for deviation and blending from those "proper" roles that the double standard is applied. And you know what? That's fine. Humanity currently is undergoing rapid change and everything else is having to catch up. Including gender roles and sexual roles and society blah blah blah hippy bullshit.

Anyway... Yeah, there's a bit of a double standard. However until the reason why there is a double standard is fully addressed. It will continue to serve to protect folks.
White straight men don't really need much protecting. They're white. They're men. They're straight. They get all the doors opened pretty much for them. Them fucking up... Is kinda on them.

I kind of regret tying the gender issues to it, it was more like a smaller point on the side and it's not what I want to get the most attention.

Isn't it someone's responsibility to look out for their interests? Why is the guy expected to look out for her interests when she won't even go as far for herself as saying no?

That is the part that is bothering me the most. For that, forget about which gender was referenced for which side. What I don't understand is why the burden of protecting the other person is put on the person initiating the sexual act, as well as why if it's considered as bad of an act of rape, why the victim won't even say no? It's just treating the victim as helpless when they're fully capable of saying they don't want to.

 

[LordFish]

You do have a point indeed, but I think the whole "SILENCE IS A NO" situation applies where the girl is too drunk to say almost anything.

I know a girl who have had a guy be very forceful to her when they were drunk, however the police said that since there were no bruises and people at the party saw them go into the room together "They couldn't prove rape" basically told her "You didn't get raped, in the eyes of the law" But they don't want that to get out because of the massive shit storm of rape.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

It isn't equal. Because currently, the genders aren't equal. Don't agree? What would you think of a man who wore a dress in public?

It's called a kilt bro, and dudes who wear kilts are badass. Don't agree?

Spoiler

 

[Kahunaburger]

Yeah, consent is not a tricky concept (or at least it shouldn't be). Seriously, people, how hard is it to make sure that partners/hook-ups actually want to fuck?

 

[Esotera]

Not sure whether this general trend is worse than ME3/Skyrim or not.

OT: If a person isn't capable of giving decent consent, like if they're really drunk, then assuming the other person is capable of making conscious decisions and hasn't consumed their own body weight in alcohol, it has the potential to be pretty bad.

If both people are sober & able to consent though, then that's a major failure of communication.

 

[Phasmal]

This general trend in threads makes me want to cry.

The ad in the article is clearly about a woman who is black-out drunk and passed out. If you have trouble with consent in that situation, you are freaking dumb. You do not fuck people who are passed out.

Yeah, consent is not a tricky concept (or at least it shouldn't be). Seriously, people, how hard is it to make sure that partners/hook-ups actually want to fuck?

Yeah, you'd think it's pretty damn simple.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

This general trend in threads makes me want to cry.

The ad in the article is clearly about a woman who is black-out drunk and passed out. If you have trouble with consent in that situation, you are freaking dumb. You do not fuck people who are passed out.

Yeah, consent is not a tricky concept (or at least it shouldn't be). Seriously, people, how hard is it to make sure that partners/hook-ups actually want to fuck?

Yeah, you'd think it's pretty damn simple.

Well damn. I read everything in the article besides the little blurb at the beginning with someone passed out drunk. Obviously in that situation consent can't be given, and I'm not so much of an idiot that I would think that. Nonetheless, I feel stupid for missing that pretty obvious fact.

EDIT: Well damn again. There's even a picture. I'll go curl up in my corner of regret now

 

[Psykoma]

How about

'Never have sex with someone without their explicit consent'

Pretty damn simple.

 

[Rednog]

*Sigh*

Can we please stop talking about rape. Please. Just for one day.

This is what The Escapist would look like without gender issue threads.

I don't see an effigy of EA being burned at the stake nor someone giving Gabe Newell a luscious blowjob, you're image is faulty.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

How about

'Never have sex with someone without their explicit consent'

Pretty damn simple.

Still, that part seems unnecessary. When me and my girlfriend first had sex we didn't need explicit consent, we knew we were both okay with it. It would really ruin the spontaneity if before anything happened we had to say "Are you SURE you want to do this?" "Yes, are YOU sure you want to do this?"

 

[Rednog]

How about

'Never have sex with someone without their explicit consent'

Pretty damn simple.

Still, that part seems unnecessary. When me and my girlfriend first had sex we didn't need explicit consent, we knew we were both okay with it. It would really ruin the spontaneity if before anything happened we had to say "Are you SURE you want to do this?" "Yes, are YOU sure you want to do this?"

I'm not sure if there is some legal thing or what not, but I remember way back in college when they talked about rape they said that if the female didn't agree to each escalating action during intercourse it could still be considered rape because she didn't say yes to the next action. I don't know if it was true or they were bullshitting us, but the guy was like ok she says its ok to kiss, now she has to ok feeling her breasts, now she has to ok touching her vagina, now she has to ok penetration...etc.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

How about

'Never have sex with someone without their explicit consent'

Pretty damn simple.

Still, that part seems unnecessary. When me and my girlfriend first had sex we didn't need explicit consent, we knew we were both okay with it. It would really ruin the spontaneity if before anything happened we had to say "Are you SURE you want to do this?" "Yes, are YOU sure you want to do this?"

I'm not sure if there is some legal thing or what not, but I remember way back in college when they talked about rape they said that if the female didn't agree to each escalating action during intercourse it could still be considered rape because she didn't say yes to the next action. I don't know if it was true or they were bullshitting us, but the guy was like ok she says its ok to kiss, now she has to ok feeling her breasts, now she has to ok touching her vagina, now she has to ok penetration...etc.

Exactly, isn't it a lot easier for someone to just say when they're not comfortable? I don't want to go blaming the victim, but people should stick up for themselves to some extent, especially if doing so is as easy as saying one word.

 

[Rednog]

How about

'Never have sex with someone without their explicit consent'

Pretty damn simple.

Still, that part seems unnecessary. When me and my girlfriend first had sex we didn't need explicit consent, we knew we were both okay with it. It would really ruin the spontaneity if before anything happened we had to say "Are you SURE you want to do this?" "Yes, are YOU sure you want to do this?"

I'm not sure if there is some legal thing or what not, but I remember way back in college when they talked about rape they said that if the female didn't agree to each escalating action during intercourse it could still be considered rape because she didn't say yes to the next action. I don't know if it was true or they were bullshitting us, but the guy was like ok she says its ok to kiss, now she has to ok feeling her breasts, now she has to ok touching her vagina, now she has to ok penetration...etc.

Exactly, isn't it a lot easier for someone to just say when they're not comfortable? I don't want to go blaming the victim, but people should stick up for themselves to some extent, especially if doing so is as easy as saying one word.

We could just make sex easier for everyone and have both parties sign legal documents with a check list on what they do and do not want to do during the engagement and have a third party sign it and get it notarized.